Latest Posts by terra-fatalis - Page 5

This.

Aerith could survive, summon Holy, fight against Meteor, then summon the Lifestream and with a stretch of imagination even cure Geostigma and have the best happy ending ever seen. It's fiction after all.

Point is, why did they intruduce Aerith's death in the first place.

It's not about blasting a Meteor but explore the deepest existentialistic side of the story.

Death and life are the letimotivs of FF7, condensed in the main concept of the Lifestream and the research of the enigmatical "Promised Land".

Cloud's adventure chronologically starts the day Tifa's mother died - with her hopeless attempt to meet her again - and it ends at the Northern Crater where he finally understands the real nature of the Lifestream and the Promised Land aimed by the Cetras: death is not the end, it's the destination. They will really "meet again".

Aerith personal journey takes her to understand what it really means to be a Cetra, to rediscover her abilities and accept to be Sephiroth's counterbalance. Cetra vs Jenova. Lifestream White vs Lifestream Black. Holy vs Meteor.

Sephiroth, the fake Cetra, comes back to life thanks to the Reunion and aims to the annihilation of the Planet.

Aerith, the real Cetra, despite her death, still keeps representing life and spiritual enery at their highest levels, to the point to convey the whole Lifestream against Meteor.

Every other character could die instead of her, it would be emotional, sure.

But no one else could replace her in this duality.

Is it really true that Aerith has to die in order for Meteor to be stopped? I've always heard fans saying that she has to die because it's important for the plot and needs to happen so that she can summon Holy to stop Meteor, but if she really has to die to stop Meteor, then why is it that she had already summoned Holy right before Sephiroth killed her? I thought she died for shock value and as a symbol for one of the themes for the story. Whether she died or not wouldn't have mattered.

Well, it's a story, nothing HAS to happen, you can always write your way out of anything if you're willing to bullshit enough. If you're asking whether dying is a requirement for summoning holy in general, then no, Aerith doesn't have to die to summon holy. In FFVII, Aerith successfully summons holy before she dies, only the spell does not activate because Sephiroth is blocking the spell from activating from the lifestream. Hypothetically, holy could still be summoned if Aerith lives, all that would need to happen is for them to destroy Sephiroth in order to stop him from blocking holy, which is what happens in the original. Only, in the original, they're too late, meteor is too close for holy to fully stop it. The way it's eventually stopped is that Aerith rallies the planets lifestream from inside it, to help holy. That she can't do while alive as far as we know. The logical response of course would be to say that if Aerith didn't die, then she'd have been able to tell the party that Sephiroth is preventing holy from activating, and they might be able to activate holy sooner, meaning it wouldn't fail. Perfectly valid response....however. This is a story, and that is the biggest anti-climax I've ever heard. There is a reason that in no good story the plans ever "just work". Holy failing, and the lifestream of the planet joining in, is a core part of the story, if holy just works, then there is no drama or suspense there, no ups and downs, no lessons concerning humanity and the planet. And that's what really matters, Aerith has to die because she can't fulfill her narrative purpose while being alive. The mechanical purpose can always be fulfilled because you can always make up some bullshit excuse for why "now it's suddenly possible!", as we see in every bad blockbuster movie. This is why it's also technically possible to have Aerith fix Clouds broken psyche, just have her magic him whole again. But in reality, she can't, because there are narrative reasons for Clouds fake persona, and it's those thoughts and feelings that need to be addressed by the story, not the "affliction" itself. Might as well go all the way. "well, Aerith can not die, and then Clouds psyche doesn't break, so he wouldn't give the black materia to Sephiroth, so then Sephiroth can't summon meteor, and everything would be peachy"......that's not a story.

Hi, thank you for your brilliant insights. Maybe it's just a coincidence of the English localization, but do you think there is any thematic relation between Cloud and Tifa's Promise and the Promised Land? (meaning the PL as a state of enlightenment and fulfillment, and considering the Promise with all it's consequences in the story, not just as two separate elements)

I have to be honest here about the limits of my knowledge. I don't speak Japanese so I don't feel comfortable making a hard conclusion about that. That having been said, I believe so yes. As far as I can tell "the promised land" is a pretty literal translation of Yakusoku no ji (約束の地)

Yakusoku (約束) literally meaning promise, "no"(の) meaning "of" and "ji" (地) literally translating to ground or earth. Personally I highly doubt that that would be an accident, and I think the meaning is pretty clear. If we look at the concept of the promised land as a state of supreme bliss, then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how that might apply to Clouds case. The core desire of true Cloud was to be capable of protecting people, specifically Tifa, his failure to do so is what leads to his fake persona and eventual AC depression. "The promise" is in itself something that is highlighted as being of special significance both inside the game and out. It's routinely mentioned in Ultimania, and if you remember back to the FFVII:remake announcement it also had the line "the promise has been made". The promise, reunion, the promised land, these things are all more significant than just words, they're returning concepts that have had real thought put into them by the developers. Concerning the promise, it is all about protecting Tifa, which is Clouds deepest desire, it is his state of happiness, to be the hero Tifa can depend on. When Tifa and Cloud enter the lifestream together, Cloud returns to his true self, and along with that realization comes the reveal that Cloud did come for Tifa, he fulfilled his promise, not as a soldier, but as his own flawed human self. Through his return to his true self, he fulfills his promise, thereby reaching his desired state of being, which then directly leads into his coming together with Tifa underneath the highwind. Sometimes I find myself thinking "what if this is all a happy coincidence, what if SE simply struck thematic gold without realizing it?", but this is one of the cases where I think it's just too perfect for it not to be consciously intended. In one fell swoop Cloud fulfills his promise, breaks through his fake self, obtains the inner power needed to vanquish the external threat, obtains that which he has been seeking, together with the girl named after the sefira of balance between strength and beauty? A girl who lives at the 7th heaven. Who is also thematically linked to Valkyries, aka, the lovers of heros?

No, that's all too big of a coincidence, I know I said I didn't want to make too definite of a conclusion, but I feel like these things have to have been by design. If they weren't, I wouldn't just be shocked, I'd be disappointed.

I'm still a beginner in Japanese but maybe I can help (anyway, take me with a grain of salt).

Here there are some etymological info about Wutai and Da Chao.

As the link says, the literal meaning of 五台 is "five plateaus" both in Chinese and in Japanese. In Japanese the name of the mount is written in the same way but it's pronounced the japanese way, ごだい godai (in both languages 五 means "5" and 台 means "platform"). Anyway, in the game Wutai is written in katakana (which is usually the writing system used for foreign words), keeping the original Chinese pronounce ウータイ.

I checked some pictures of Da-Chao statue and it seems it's formed by only 4 figures, but in the pagoda quest Yuffie has to fight against five different enemies (and other meanings of 台 are "elevated area" and "level"), so maybe that's indeed the reference.

Anyway - side note - the names of the 4 fighters and Godo himself have nothing to do with Japanese/Chinese cultures or Buddhism, they actually derive from the names of western playwrights: Gorki, Shake, Chekov, Staniv, Godo. Fandom links the origin of Da-Chao to a Tibetan temple but following this logic it could be linked to something that has nothing to do with Buddhism as well. It's written in katakana so it's difficult to trace the potential chinese etymology.

As for Fort Tamblin, タンブリン in Japanese means "tambourine".

Wutai names - etymology

FFVII scholars, can you help?

There’s a sacred mountain in Shangxi Province, China, called Mt Wutai. This may be where SE got the name for the land of Wutai in FFVII, or it may not, and I don’t know what the characters 五台 mean in Chinese, but we do know Wutai is the name of a real place, like Costa del Sol. 

But what about Fort Tamblin, which in Japanese is タンブリン？ Does it mean anything? Is it meant to mean anything? 

And Da Chao? Does it mean something?

As far as I can remember, Fort Tamblin, Da Chao and Wutai proper are the only three locations in Wutai for which we have name. 

AERITH PLAY ARTS KAI RED DRESS

Aerith, from FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE, makes her appearance in the PLAY ARTS KAI action figure line, clad in her extravagant red dress from the Wall Market section of the game!

Hi! I see many FFVII fans having great difficulties to accept Crisis Core as a legit canon entry of the compilation. Many of its scenes are often dismissed as fanservice or lazy copy&paste of the OG, and many lament that this game ruined the personalities of the characters. What do you think about it? Thanks!

Thanks for the ask!

I often think of this quote from one of my favorite shows, and even in the case of evaluating entertainment, I wish people would often think about this in how they move forward in discussions:

“If you stop seeing the world in terms of what you like and what you dislike, and saw things for what they truly are in themselves—you would find a great deal more peace in your life.”

— Patrick Jane, The Mentalist S2Ep.6

Without trying to sound too dismissive of people's free opinions, a lot of this type of commentary either doesn't come from a good, foundational understanding of canon or a more clearer-headed, objective understanding of the content within and of itself. Especially with the perspective of the writers and what they essentially wanted to achieve. The idea of everyone having their own personal takes is the way of being human, but once we enter discussions online, this becomes more like a plague that spreads and creates/shapes even more misunderstandings.

I've seen many things over the years so I can't exactly pinpoint everything, but the most direct is that there's no point in time where Crisis Core hasn't been a legitimate, canonical entry in the FFVII canon. There isn't any room for debate on that if we're talking about the FFVII canon as seriously as possible—you'd be having a laugh otherwise. Now, the evaluation of its actual materials? That's just the difference in why people say the things they do, spectrums between agendas, personal feelings, or inclinations with trouble accepting things that otherwise would cause them conflict. We can't allow these things to dismiss our understanding of storytelling, to dismiss the fact that, while a multitude of things can be included in any content that is simply there to be entertaining, this doesn't always reflect its actual nature in regards to canonicity, or to dismiss the prospects that the Compilation isn't just extra stories of the FFVII, but is a DEVLEOPMENT of the world first established—we need to be able to look at the growth and application of this content from a practical perspective, and if we're having discussions, try to be a bit more objective when making a point to another. The game sure isn’t perfect, in whatever standard that could ever be, but the conclusions reached like you mentioned are by people who don’t help things get done. Calling the game "fanservice" or disregarding intentional parallels as "lazy copy & paste" without looking at the context of WHY it was made—we're not going to get anything done.

That's why certain discourses in this fandom, lasting decades long, doesn't get done, and never will until people change the way they think about things and why.

I can't grasp the reason why on this website there's this sort of unwritten rule that doesn't allow you to use the Clerith (or Cloti, I guess?) tag unless you're going to celebrate that one ship (does it work this way for every argument or is it just a FF7 LTD related thing?). Otherwise some self-proclaimed tags-controllers will order you to change your writing, in spite of basic common sense and freedom of expression.

As if this sort of cultic anon intimidations could actually scare anybody.

It's tremendously silly, why can't someone tag clerith if the enterity of their article is going to be about clerith and the tone, despite their opinion, is being polite and unagressive? If someone doesn't agree and really can't live with it, there's a useful, easy tool called "block button".

In a way it's hilarious, if the anon was reacting to OP's recent post, they missed the chance to say something productive and give an alternative answer to his last ask, explaining how and why clerith is the end-game pairing.

But, weird, it didn't happen.

All flash, no substance.

Bruh, we don't want to hear about your negative views about cleriths. Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her. He thought of Aerith a lot in OG , On the Way to A Smile, and AC. He went to live in her church. Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith? There are millions of places he could've gone but he chose the church. You don't have to believe our way of thinking if you don't want to, but don't tag clerith in your posts.

Thanks for your question. I think it's important to have these conversations so we can clear up these misunderstandings. Clouds motivations have been well documented so it's unfortunate that large swaths of the fandom seemingly are still in the dark about something that has been known for quite a long time, and I blame lack of communication. Before I answer your question though I'd like to address the style of it, since I find it amusing that in response to my article concerning productive conversation styles you not only used one of the styles I described, but even the same exact argument. This is a nice confirmation for me that I am right on the money. In my article, I said that the "dishonest inquiry" is the Clerith conversation style of choice. The example I gave was as follows:

The dishonest inquiry: “Why don’t you admit that Clouds actions in AC show that he doesn’t love Tifa?”

You mirrored this approach by saying "Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith?". The defining characteristic of the dishonest inquiry is that the question isn't asked with the goal of seeking clarification, but as an offensive tactic meant to attack the others position, you're not trying to evaluate your position, you're trying to get others to re-evaluate their position under the guise of a question. If we look at the rest of your post we can see the indicators I described for someone who has reached the last stage of the debate style. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her". As I noted in my article:

If assertions are backed up, they are backed up with other assertions designed to dissuade rebuttals, rather than investigating veracity.

This "argument" had no actual arguments, it was a meaningless assertion. Stating that you are correct in an attempt to avoid having to actual show that you're correct. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her": This is what you're trying to prove, you can't state what you're trying to prove as your starting premise.

If you're honestly interested in learning more about FFVII then leave out the baseless assertions, they literally just waste peoples time and makes them less willing to engage with you.

If I had to rephrase your question in a way that's more inviting for a productive discussion it would be something like this:

"Why do you believe Cloud chose Aeriths Church as his hiding place in AC? He thinks about Aerith a lot, what do you think the reason is for that if it's not love?".

The answer to this is pretty simple of course, it's been restated several times, this is not something that is some grand mystery, it's not even an aspect of FFVII that's particularly ambiguous. The reason he stays in Aeriths church is the same reason he's seen lingering at Zacks "grave", it's guilt. As stated in the 10th anniversary ultimania, and several other times:

when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him

While this is an element of the story that has been explicitly confirmed through ultimanias and quotes, this is not an element of the story that was ever in any way unclear, its a direct continuation of Clouds character arc in FFVII. Infact, Clouds mental health issues are the central part of the fake persona storyarc, and is arguably the core of the story. The rough order of events shown in FFVII, on the way to a smile, and Advent children (and also CC) concerning Clouds mental health is as follows. 1: Cloud as a boy want to protect Tifa. 2: Cloud fails to protect Tifa. 3: Cloud and townspeople blame Cloud for Tifas injuries. 4: Cloud internalizes this and beats himself up over his failure to protect Tifa. He develops a fear of failure. 5: Cloud starts acting up, starts wanting to prove himself, and decides to join Soldier to impress Tifa. 6: Cloud fails to get into Soldier, develops an inferiority complex. 7: Cloud is too ashamed of his failure to face Tifa. 8: Cloud fails to save his mother. 9: Cloud fails to save Nibleheim. 10: Cloud fails to save Tifa, again. 11: Cloud fails to save Zack. 12: Cloud develops a soldier alter ego that is everything that he isn't, as a defense mechanism. He hides from his own weakness. 13: Even as a soldier, Cloud fails to save Aerith. 14: Cloud regains his memories in the lifestream, and discovers he did fulfill his promise to come save Tifa. Here we basically end FFVII, and go into on the way to a smile. At this point Cloud has overcome the alien parasite messing with his mind by establishing a stronger sense of who he is. However, now that he's lost his fake soldier defense mechanism he's forced to deal with the past. His past failures haven't been fixed, he doesn't suddenly think he's a great person now, he simply can no longer use his fake persona to hide from his own weakness, and is forced to confront it. 15: Cloud still blames his own weakness for the deaths of Aerith and Zack, he thinks that he needs to atone for his sins, and thinks that the only way to do this is through living* 16: Cloud starts living with Tifa and experiences happiness and peace for the first time in his adult life.** 17: Cloud develops cherophobia and survivors guilt. He feels ashamed for being alive and happy while Aerith and Zack are dead because of him.*** 18: Clouds mental health deteriorates because of these feelings.**** 19: Cloud finds Denzel and sees him as a way to atone, having found a pathway to redemption, Clouds situation improves.***** 20: Cloud is unable to save Denzel from geostigma, and contracts it himself. 21: Clouds mental health worsens again, he failed again, he is unable to save Denzel, he is even unable to save himself, he won't be able to atone for his sins through living. He potentially brought an infectious disease into the house and as a result of his actions Tifa and Marlene will now lose him. 22: Depressed and ashamed, Cloud runs away. He thinks Tifa and Marlene are better off without him, he doesn't want them to see him waste away and die, he feels like he doesn't deserve to be happy and should instead die alone, Etc. Classic depression. (Some quotes concerning the *** are at the bottom of the article)

As for why he thinks about Aerith and Zack a lot, and hangs around the places that are connected with them, what else do you expect? Of course he's thinking about them, they're the people he failed, they're DEAD because of him. Cloud is a caring man, he beats himself up over it, of course he'd be thinking about them. And where else would a man wallowing in guilt and self-pity go than to those places? But the important thing to remember is that none of this is supposed to be seen as romantic. It's supposed to be viewed as sad and negative. Every internal character arc has something to overcome and this is what Cloud has to overcome in Advent children.****** Tifa to Cloud: "have we lost to our memories?" Cloud to Sephiroth: "Stay where you belong, in my memories" A well written story has internal and external obstacles to overcome, and ties the two together. In the case of advent children, the return of Sephiroth is the physical representation of Clouds internal character arc, which is that he should stop living in the past, and should move on. The past here isn't a positive thing he wants to get back to, Clouds past has always been a thing he's ran away from, but then is forced to accept. The past in Clouds case is a bad thing, his failures, and is something he should stop dwelling on. If you've ever seen the lion king, this resembles the scene where Rafiki hits Simba with a stick. "What does it matter, it's in the past", "yeah but it still hurts", "Oh Yes, the past can hurt, but the way I see it you can either run from it, or learn from it".

When Cloud returned to his normal self, he stopped running from the past, but as a result, he started dwelling in it. That's what he's doing in Aeriths church; dwelling in misery.

If we juxtapose Aeriths church with the 7th heaven, we can start to see where peoples misunderstandings are taking place. When some people look at the events of ACC they think that 7th heaven is a place of sadness, which Cloud leaves to be happy at Aeriths church, the place of happiness. The "have we lost to our memories" is then seen as a confirmation of this and that the memory, which they think corresponds to Aerith, is better than life with Tifa. This character arc then concludes with Cloud being happy by finally leaving Tifa behind, and riding off in the sun-set in search of Aerith at the end of the movie. But this interpretation falls apart as soon as you apply context to it, both narratively, and factually, it doesn't fit with with developer quotes, as well as the fundamental story themes of FFVII. 1: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, then why has Cloud been consistently quoted to experience happiness there? 2: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, and Cloud leaves at the end of the movie, then why has it been stated to be his promised land, aka, his land of supreme happiness (the reason it's literally called 7th heaven), and why is he stated to return there? ******* 3: If Clouds "memories" are positive, why is the plotarc resolved by Cloud telling the villain to "stay there"? 4: If Cloud is happy at the church, why is he living in self-deprecating squalor? 5: If Cloud loved Aerith and thought Denzel was sent to him by her, why did he abandon him? 6: Do you really think SE would write a story about a "hero" whose main emotional hurdle concerning the past comes down to. "I am sick of the girl I am with, I prefer the one that is dead, so I will get over the past by letting go of the girl I am with, as well as my adoptive children, to go chase the dead girl"? 7: Don't you think this would do Tifas character a tremendous disservice and do you think SE would be that preferential in their treatment? I could go on, but I think the point is clear. While the "Aeriths church is a happy place" interpretation is semi-coherent when looked at in isolation, it becomes exceedingly bizarre as soon as you place it in context. As I am fond of saying, this is not a matter of personal interpretation, it's a matter of lying to yourself vs not lying to yourself. I also suspect that this is the reason why SE changed the ending to advent Children, because people were misinterpreting it in this bizarre way, so they made it more in your face. In context, the following interpretation is much more fitting. Aeriths church is a place of sadness that Cloud runs to because of his guilt and depression. The "memories" line refers to Cloud dwelling on his past mistakes, as evidenced by his constant quotes about needing forgiveness. The character arc of moving on from the past is then resolved when he forgives himself, and as a result, defeats sephiroth, the metaphorical demon of his past. This allows him to return to his place of joy, his promised land, the 7th heaven, with a more positive outlook on the past. Instead of tarnishing Aerith and Zacks memories by wallowing in the past he instead moves on from it, thereby allowing it to become beautiful, which is represented by him planting Aeriths flowers on Zacks grave, and placing Zacks sword in the church. Instead of Zacks grave being the place where Zack died, it is now the place where a hero was born. Cloud has moved on, he has let his mistakes go, and has learned to come to terms with himself. I think it's hard to argue that this version of events is much less shallow, and much more meaningful than the story of a lovesick guy who abandons his partner and adoptive kids to go chase after a dead girl, but that's just me, what's more important is that it's the only version of events that's corroborated by the evidence. Thanks for the question. __________________________________________________

Corroborating quotes (not comprehensive)

* from case of Tifa: "“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things…"

** Nojima in AC prologue: "“Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful livinghe’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.” (among other quotes)

*** 10th anniversary ultimania: "when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him"

Aeriths 10th anniversary profile : Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off. -Aerith’s 10th anniversay profile.

And more, really this is reiterated constantly.

**** From case of Tifa: "During that time, it was Marlene who noticed a change in Cloud. She told Tifa how Cloud would sometimes space out and not listen to her.

Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn’t protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.

It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.

***** From case of Tifa: "Tifa wondered if they became a real family after Denzel appeared. Cloud was clearly taking less jobs. At night, he would always make sure he had time to spend with the children. The silly little conversations he had with Tifa were also back."

****** Reunion files, page 58: "As long as Cloud blames himself for Aerith’s death, he won’t be able to move on with his life. One of the first ideas we had for Advent Children was to have Cloud overcome and resolve that immense feeling of guilt. For Cloud, no one other than Aerith can solve that problem for him."

- Takahiro Sakurai pg. 15 reunion files: After Cloud was told, “Which is it? A memory or us?: by Tifa, he tells Sephiroth, “Stay where you belong. In my memories,” just before he defeats him. I think Cloud finally becomes free at this moment. Deep down, Cloud knew that he shouldn’t be so hard on himself, but at the same time he couldn’t let go of those feelings of guilt for what happened to Aerith and Zack, or the thought that he could never forgive himself for it. But then his companions made him feel better by telling him to let go. ******* "The place where he awakens—- That is Cloud’s Promised Land As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn’t belong here yet. When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma— his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live."

"Aerith lends her power to the people suffering from Geostigma in Edge, and personally provides for Cloud’s recovery. Geostigma is cured. Cloud returns to Tifa and the children."

-  FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Complete Timeline

Welcome 🎉

He's correct and he should say it.

Now I really need to see this.

Source: Minor-Interest

Only a blind person would deny the writers' intention here ❤️

In the August 20th, 2021 interview for Trace of Two pasts, Nojima comments on how Aerith handles her sadness.

Both of the stories shine light on the protagonists who steadfastly live on despite the unfortunate circumstances surrounding them. Can you tell us what kind of story device you used to get these ideas?

Nojima: I thought about those who were able to overcome various sadness in their lives. Aerith tries to get used to the environment by maintaining a very upbeat personality and believing that she isn’t sad.

(Source)

So Aerith pretends to be an upbeat, happy person to mask her sadness?

Sure enough:

“Gotta look forward, not back.”

Ahhh my poor heartbroken girl 💔

We need to make the most of the time we have—to live our lives the way we wanna live. Every minute...every moment, matters.

Baby boy, baby

(Source)

-

I was thinking about this part of Trace of Two Pasts and its potential future implications:

There might come a day where she would no longer be 'the last descendant of the Cetra'.

No wonder that so many people got excited at the idea that perhaps this is an hint that Remake takes place in an alternate timeline where Aerith may survive and have kids.

Is she thinking to Cloud as a feasible partner? Maybe, I wouldn't exclude part of the intent here is to set up a future insight on Aerith's romantic feelings.

However I find this part extremely intersting for a different reason, and considering it into an overall view of the story, I'm guessing if the real intention of the writer wasn't to set part of the foundation of a greater theme of FFVII.

I think it's safe to assume that both Trace of Two Pasts and Picturing the Past, despite being purposedly written to enrich the narrative of Remake, are meant to expand the story and its characters as a whole. In other words, these two novels fit both the OG and the Remake, whether the latter is going to have a different ending or not (not going to discuss this here), nothing clashes with the original plot. No mentions of Whispers or glimpses of the future, just an insight and a modernization of the characters' backstories.

As regards the OG we already know what happens to Aerith:

In an extremely short span of time she endures a lot of internal struggles and development.

First of all she's torn between her human and Cetra sides. It's more my personal interpretation for now, but I think that Aerith tried for years to set aside her Cetra heritage. Being the last one, the special one, always turned out to be a negative thing. Her mother endured terrible experimentations that lead her to death, she had to live imprisoned and alone for years and even when she started living in Sector 5 with Elmyra she was constantly under surveillance, all this because of this uniqueness. Her special powers made her the strange one, who could hear voices and perceive people dying, and Aerith didn't want all this, she wanted to be as normal as any other girl. She wanted to work, to ejoy life, to be happy and free. But whenever her powers would have awaken again Shinra was ready to take her back to its labs. This unexpected journey forced her to learn about her heritage and accept the fact that her wish to be human couldn't overshadow her Cetra responsibility. And when she fully accepts herself, her powers and consciousness finally resurface.

Moreover she has to face her inner turmoir concerning her feelings. The boy she loved is dead, although she's unaware of the reason why he didn't come back to her 5 years before, and now she needs to understand what Cloud really means for her. He bears similarities with Zack yet he's not Zack and she perceives there's something different under his cold surface. And she finally resolves she wants to take a step forward and meet the real Cloud, wherever it may lead.

But all these quick realizations break off in the worst way possible. After more or less one week Sephiroth kills her. The White Materia falls in the waters of the Forgotten City and as far as we know it loses all its powers and becomes useless.

In this case those lines would...end in nothing but just stress on Aerith's will to be a normal human girl? The usual and obnoxious "red herring" that often fans apply to Aerith's character arc, as if everything concerning her feelings and expectations for the future were just a literary device to make her death hit harder?

I think there's something more.

Let's be clear, even IF the Remake will take a different direction than the OG and leave Aerith live, I think there are no chances Meteor won't be summoned. If anything because it's...the symbol of the story itself, it may sound simplistic but it's a matter of fact.

On a deeper level I'd point out that the symbolic dualism between Aerith and Sephiroth - that later will lead to Holy vs Meteor - has already been abundantly shown in Remake part 1. Aerith and Sephiroth are the two key characters with knowledges about a post AC future, they both present features and motivations that stem from Case of Lifestream Black and White. I'd say this is also a good reason to believe Aerith's fate can't be changed because her role as Sephiroth's counterbalance is set in stone, and I think this is quite the point of this character, accepting to be the embodiment of the spirit of rebirth and preservation, the true Cetra against the fake Cetra, the son of Jenova, who symbolizes oblivion and destruction. The yin and the yang of the FFVII universe, while Cloud, a completely normal human being who happens to be both the "living legacy" of a hero related to Aerith and the perfect Sephiroth clone, is in an unsteady balance between these two forces.

But I'm getting off topic.

Contextualizing that line in the original flow of events, I think it can take a way deeper meaning and the answer is already before our very eyes.

Common human beings descend from the Cetras, yet lost all their powers. They can be considered as a bad evolution, a sort of involution due to the loss of the connection with Nature in favour of an easier materialistic life.

This lifestyle culminated with the creation of Midgar (deriving from the epic Midgard, the "realm of humankind") and the reactors that suck the lifeblood of the Planet itself in exchange of comfortable lives.

The Cetras managed to save the Planet from the Calamity from the Sky at the cost of their own lives, and now humanity is draining the Planet of its most precious element, reactors are turning the Lifestream in a tainted substance that causes the rapid growth of monsters. Even without Sephiroth and Jenova, the planet would die prematurely. Groups of dissenters joined into Avalanche to try to stop this process in an aggressive way that caused deaths and destruction as well, the salvation of the Planet often turned as a pretext to take revenge against Shinra.

Holy is the ultimate resort, whose role is not only to contrast Meteor but to cleanse the Planet of all threats. And this kind of parasiting humankind would be doomed for sure if it were not for this little group of people, each one on their own internal journey to discover and embrace the importance of preserving the Planet and the Lifestream. Aerith is the lead of this journey of rediscovery (and self-rediscovery) that she passes on all the others after her death.

No one but a delicate yet strong flower girl finally saves the Planet leading the Lifestream to support Holy and reject Meteor, and the Planet decides to give humanity a second chance.

The price is high though, during the following two years people struggle to start over. The survivors of Meteorfall are now decimated by Geostigma and Aerith alone can't stop Sephiroth's plans. Geostima affects especially children, those who didn't die because of the disease got under the control of the Remnants. The only kid who seems to be spared is Marlene, the one who more than anyone else carries on Aerith's legacy.

It has been rumored more than once that Marlene could be a Cetra. I'm starting to guess if the point could actually be that Marlene is instead a human girl who has learnt, through her special bond with Aerith, how to find that lost connection with the Planet that drew the line between humans and Cetras.

Sephiroth tried to rise again using kids, parasiting their minds to find the remains of Jenova; the same way Aerith announced Sephiroth's defeat through the kids, asking them to wait for Cloud to come back from the Lifestream. Hundreds of kids are framed enlightened by a warm light while they get to the church, Marlene and Denzel in the lead.

Not causally the name of the movie is Advent Children, and not causally Crisis Core and the Remake kept linking her to children.

I think that this is what that line is hinting. Not a biological kid to whom physically give the globe of White materia, but a new generation aware of what has to be done to deserve the survival allowed by the Planet, conscious of the importance to preserve the cycle of life. People willing to find the lost connection with nature and live in harmony with it.

Aerith's living legacy.

Just my two cents.

"With you by my side, I'll never give up no matter how bad it gets."

I don't know if this was intentional but I love it

“But that’s all right. As long as I’m with you… As long as you’re by my side… I won’t give up even if I’m scared.”

 (Pic on pixiv: みなと)

Since forever and I hope I'll never change

Do you ever feel so detached from the world because you’re constantly living in the fictional/fantasy worlds in your head given that reality is just too boring, too limiting, and too uneventful????

No offense bro, but why are you always so protective of Cloud? No disrespect to you or anything but I've heard quite a bit of different opinions and theories on Cloud myself and I do agree with the people who say that he takes Tifa for granted. Going through trauma in the past is not really an excuse for his behavior. He also does act like he's the only one who has suffered in his life. Do you have other reason to defend him other than the fact that you "relate" to him? Just wondering.

Sorry for the late reply, my life has basically left no room for hobbies these past months. Your question is hard to reply to because I am not sure what you mean when you say I am protective of him. I guess you mean I defend his actions? Specifically in ACC? Firstly let me state that there is a difference between being a good character and being a nice character, there is also a difference between agreeing with someones actions, or just understanding them. Personally, I never really liked Cloud, especially not when I was younger. A lot of my defense of Cloud doesn't come from me personally liking him, but from me thinking he's a good character. I also think Snape is a good character, but I don't like his actions, and I don't defend them, although I still understand them to a certain degree. I should also say that as I started to understand Clouds character more, I also started liking HIM a bit more, although I still don't like the things he did, and would very likely not be friends with him. But I do understand why he did what he did and cannot be too critical of him because of that. You've probably heard that before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That's great advice, if you want to judge someone, you should imagine what it would be like to be them, however, I've noticed that too often when people try to walk a mile in someone elses shoes, they refuse to take their own shoes off first. They don't think "what would it be like to be him", they think "what would I do in that position". But Cloud is not you, and you cannot judge him by how you would act, you've not gone through the same things he has, your thought patterns aren't the same etc. This matters because too often I see people judging Clouds actions in ACC, and establishing his motivations by saying things that boil down to "If I were in his position, I would only do those actions if I loved Aerith/didn't love Tifa/whatever". But they're not Cloud, and they're not understanding how Cloud thinks, and that it's different from how THEY think. But like you said, I do see some recognizable elements of myself in Cloud, which is why I do understand his actions, and why I feel relatively certain in defending them, because I see them coming from a good place. It's common for me to react to things in a way that others find counter-intuitive. Let me give you an example, my brother once was mad at me because I had not told him my girlfriend of several years and I had broken up while I did tell a random stranger at the pub. He said that he felt like he wasn't important to me if I told a random stranger but not him. The truth was the exact opposite, I love my brother, and could not bear to face him for some reason, as I told him: "if not caring enough was the problem, then I wouldn't have told a random stranger". I see people exhibit that same lack of understanding when discussing Clouds actions, where they feel like his actions must be the sign of him just being a bad person, or not caring. But ask yourself what is more likely, that Square-enix wants their hero to be a bad person, or that you simply are misunderstanding the character? I understand why people don't get Cloud, Cloud suffers from obvious mental health issues, and mental health issues simply are not something that the general public understands, even today. Not only that, but Cloud went through the most insane series of traumatic events anyone could ever imagine. He had an alien parasite in him, saw his entire town murdered before his eyes, then saw Zack murdered in front of his eyes, then saw Aerith murdered in front of his eyes, and just when he started living a peaceful life he is forced to watch his child succumb to sickness in front of his eyes, and then he finds he himself is dying. All this on the psyche of a man who had had a fear of failure ever since he was a child, spent most of his life essentially in war, and had a severe identity crisis as well. Do you think you can honestly judge him by going "that's not what I would have done"? Would that not be incredibly

presumptuous? Have you suffered from depression as a result of severe post-war PTSD and a lifelong feeling of inadequacy combined with a fear of failure and the belief that many of your loved once died because you failed and were inadequate? Because that's the context in which you have to view Cloud when watching Advent Children. Saying "Going through trauma in the past is not really an excuse for his behavior" is just incredibly short-sighted, your behavior is determined by who you are, and who you are is determined by what you go through in the past. You can't expect a broken child to became a well-adjusted adult when being a well-adjusted adult is the result of having a normal childhood.

I also don't want to cause offense, but this really is a mindset you should change, because this mindset is one of the most pervasive and damaging ones in our society, it's the one that probably bothers me most when I hear it because it makes zero sense. It's like breaking a robots self-repair unit, and then being angry at it on the grounds that the self-repair unit should have fixed it. It's also very insensitive in general, it's the equivalent of saying "why are you depressed, just stop being depressed", people don't choose to be depressed, people don't choose to have a fear of failure. People don't choose their emotions, they're just there. They can be influenced by behavior over time, sure, but behavior is equally influenced by who you are and your emotions, which, as mentioned before, is determined for a large part by your past. People don't just "snap out of it". They fight and fight and fight, and sometimes they win and break out of the spiral, and sometimes they lose and it breaks them.

FFVII, and especially Advent children, is all about that struggle, and during those struggles you will have high-points, and low-points. FFVII shows all of those. It shows Cloud trying, it shows Cloud wanting, it shows Cloud failing, but it also, ultimately, shows Cloud prevailing. Judging Cloud for not breaking out of the spiral by the time of Advent children, when he was mentally only barely 18 years old, and when he started at the worst place anyone could ever imagine, is just not reasonable. It's the modern day equivalent of "let them eat cake", something that can only be said from the place of privilege of not knowing what the struggles of the people you're critiquing are actually like. So having that out of the way, lets look at Clouds actions from the perspective of Cloud. Cloud is a young boy, and he's in love with the girl next door, he wants to get her to notice him. One day said girl walks up a mountain and he follows, she falls off a bridge and ends in a coma. Cloud followed her because he's in love with her, and he gets the blame from the adults. Cloud internalizes this, and its important to imagine what this must be like for a child, to have the adults all tell him it's his fault that the person he loves ended up hurt. "your fault", "your fault". Afterwards Cloud starts thinking Tifa hates him and starts acting out. I think this is a good moment to point out btw that this child has no father figure. This is the start of his feelings of failure and inadequacy, he blames himself for not being able to protect Tifa, failure number 1, he thinks that if he were strong, he'd be able to protect her, he thinks that if he were like Sephiroth, then even Tifa would have to notice him. Now until this time Cloud is not an asshole, he's a bit of a rebellious kid yes, but notice that he's not a bad kid as much as he's a kid who wants to protect someone, has no direction, and is acting out. So Cloud thinks he's not good enough, but he leaves town confident that he'll become good enough, and even makes a promise to Tifa. All this follows logically from what we know about Cloud, and tells us a lot about how deeply seated these feelings are. Becoming Soldier wasn't a small thing, not some small passion project that he just came up with one day, it's the result of the things that happened in his childhood and he left everything behind make it so. He told the girl he loved, he promised, he boasted. And then he failed. Failure number 2. He comes back to Nibleheim and can't bear to look Tifa in the eye and admit that he couldn't do it, that he's a failure. His entire life so far has revolved around this and he wasn't good enough. So here we have Cloud, not in a great mindset, thinking he's a failure, and what happens? His entire town is murdered by the person he admired, someone he worked with. His Mother is killed, and Tifa, the girl he PROMISED to protect, gets slashed open so badly that apparently she needed to have her ribcage reinforced with metal. I think we can all agree that this by itself would be enough to potentially scar a person for life. (Cloud, not Tifa XD) So what's next for the boy who left town in order to become a hero? Well, he gets captured and experimented on for 4 years, during which his mind and sense of identity is bombarded with memories and knowledge of the lifestream in the form of mako, muddying up his thoughts. Cloud already had a weak sense of self as a result of his childhood, it's why he failed to enter Soldier and now this distaste for who he is makes him extra susceptible to Jenovas influence. The next thing Cloud sees, (he didn't consciously experience the 4 years of mind-fuckery) is his best friend getting killed trying to protect him, because Cloud wasn't strong enough. Failure #3. At this point, in Clouds mind the list of people dead because he could not protect them, because he's a failure, include his mother, his entire town, his best friend, and as far as he knows, the girl he loves. This is his life. His mind is broken, he hates himself, he doesn't want to be himself,

he has a mind-altering parasite inside of him trying to adjust his identity and Clouds just goes "I reject this reality and constitute my own". And why wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he want to live in a fantasy world where he wasn't a failure, where he made it into soldier, where he was cool and successful and not a disappointing failure? Zack tells him to be his living legacy and Cloud goes with it, then he runs into Tifa, Jenova adjusts Cloud further based on Tifas memories of them and rejoined with the girl for whom he joined Soldier Cloud is unconsciously all too willing to play the part. FFVII starts and it doesn't take long for the cracks in his fake persona to show, he meets Aerith, and becomes her bodyguard. He gets to be the hero he always wanted to be. But then, even as "Cloud strife, soldier first class", Cloud is still a failure, the plate still drops, killing thousands, he gives Sephiroth the black materia, he beats up Aerith, and ultimately, fails to save her as well. Tifa was the First Failure, and Aerith was the Final Failure. Even as a soldier, Cloud still couldn't save anyone, he loses even more faith in himself, he doesn't know who he is, he doesn't trust himself, and then when he also loses Tifas trust in who he is, he just breaks and gives over to Jenova/Sephiroth. Even Hojo calls him a failure. Cloud feels like a nobody. Now mentally weakened, under the influence of jenova cells, he gives Sephiroth the black materia AGAIN, and meteor is summoned. Another entry on the long list of moments Cloud can look back on in shame later on in life. He falls into the lifestream and again his psyche is under attack. We know what happens afterwards, Tifa finds him, cares for him, and saves him through his feelings for her. Cloud realizes who he is, realizes he's weak, and goes after Sephiroth without lying to himself. In the end he defeats Sephiroth mentally and is supposedly rid of his direct influence.

But that doesn't mean that this mentally 17 year old is now fine, we should remember these events when analyzing ACC. Cloud has been in constant fighting/war/peril ever since he left home as a child, and is now a traumatized 17 year old in a 21 year olds body. Novels and other materials give us an insight into how Cloud thinks during these times, and how he thinks about himself. We hear him say that he's going to live because that's the only way he can atone for his sins. He talks about wanting to change, and about believing he can change because he now has Tifa. He's a man (boy) who just exited war, and wants to be positive, but is still clearly blaming himself. We see that this initially goes well, we are told that Cloud experiences peace and happiness that he's never experienced before. We're also told about the things that make it go badly, when he has to deliver flowers to the ancient city for instance. While Cloud regained the sense of who he was the belief that he wasn't good enough, that he was a failure, was never solved, if anything it was put on hold until he got his memories back, and now he is forced to deal with it.

While he is no longer directly manipulated by Sephiroth he's still suffering from PTSD and, most notably, survivors guilt. He blames himself for the deaths of Zack and Aerith in particular, and starts visiting the church. Now most people might think it's natural to avoid places that make you feel bad about yourself, but that's not how a depressed person thinks, Cloud thinks he deserves to feel badly he WANTS to punish himself, he WANTS to feel bad. He's ashamed of the moments where he's carefree and laughing with Tifa. Why should he get to be happy when Aerith and Zack are dead because of him? He shouldn't be happy, he should be in pain, he should remember them, not doing so would be an insult to their memories, he must never forget how he failed them! That's how Cloud is thinking. We know of course that this is non-sense, Aerith and Zack wouldn't want this, if anything it's this mindset that is tarnishing the memories of Aerith and Zack, but that's not how a mentally unwell person thinks. Cloud wants to atone, and thinks he finds salvation in Denzel, whom he finds at Aeriths church. He thinks that by saving this life, he can, in some way, make up for all the death he caused. Tifa has a similar belief when she finds out Denzels parents died in the plate crash. And when Denzel joins the family, and Cloud has path towards redemption in his mind, things start getting better again. Because this is the cause of the problems Cloud is having in ACC. When Nojima says:

first off, there’s the premise that things won’t go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same

This is the conflict he's talking about, he's not saying "Tifa and Cloud are incompatible, it has nothing to do with Sephiroth", he's saying "if Sephiroth didn't show up during Advent children, Cloud and Tifa would still be having problems because Cloud is going through survivors guilt."

But the good times don't last, Denzel has Geostigma and Cloud cannot find a cure, Denzel....is going to die. Cloud, has failed again. Not only that, but Cloud catches Geostigma....Cloud is going to die. And THIS is why Cloud leaves in Advent children. And you have to look at this as Cloud. Cloud said he was going to live to atone for his sins, but instead he's going to die. He won't atone for his sins, even worse, he's going to leave Tifa and Marlene behind. He failed again. He couldn't protect Denzel, he potentially brought an infectious disease into their house as well. Literally all Cloud can think about is that literally everything he's ever tried has ended in failure, everyone he's ever tried to protect, he's failed at. Do you understand how easy it would be for a person like this to fall into the trap of thinking "I deserve to die", "I don't want Tifa and Marlene to see me die", "Tifa and Marlene are better off without me anyway", "they'd be happier if I weren't here". Etc. Now we know this is nonsense, but come on, how many instances have you heard of depressed people genuinely believing that their loved ones would be happier and better off if they just didn't exist? However, throughout the movie, Zack, Tifa, and Aerith, all confront Cloud, and urge him to not give up. Cloud eventually does try again, and ultimately finds redemption not by being stuck in the past, but by letting the past rest and be beautiful (a lesson Cleriths unfortunately never learned). "I never blamed you you know, not once" "I want to be forgiven. By who?" "Isn't it about time you did the forgiving?" In the end, Cloud moves on, and therefore, so do Zack and Aerith. Aerith and Zack walk into the light, Cloud plants flowers on Zacks grave, and lets Zacks buster sword rest in Aeriths church, now no longer rusting, but shining. Instead of the past being a negative reminder, Cloud lets the past be beautiful. Cloud was doing Aerith and Zack a disservice by remembering them the way he did, because it was ruining his life, it wasn't a good thing, but it did come from a good place, from a good man whose ashamed of not being good enough. Yes, it harmed Tifa, people going through these things often do hurt those around them, but it's not because they're bad people, or even weak, but because people are imperfect and Cloud has gone through hell, both internally, and externally. Are his actions really that weird or deplorable? "He didn't even go save the kids!" Yes, he's hesitant about saving the kids, why shouldn't he be? Everyone Cloud tried to protect or save, ended up maimed or worse, or as Cloud puts it: "I can't even save myself". "He left Tifa alone!" Yes, he thinks he's going to waste away and die, can you blame him for not wanting to put Tifa through that and for thinking she'd be better off without him? "He drinks!" Wouldn't you?! Who wouldn't want to forget that stuff? But in the end, He's only gone for about a week, he never intended to harm Tifa, he never physically harmed Tifa or cheated on her, his entire life revolved around wanting to be better for Tifa and blaming himself when he wasn't good enough, how is it reasonable to say this man takes Tifa for granted when the fact that he thinks he has to BE BETTER in order to be worthy of being with her has been a constant throughout his entire life and story? He DOESN'T take Tifa for granted, that's why he's beating himself up, that's why he leaves, not because he thinks he's better than her, or that he'll always have her, or that she'll follow him like a dog, or something like that. But because of the opposite, because he thinks HE is not good enough, that SHE would be better of without him. Saying Cloud takes Tifa for granted, is honestly, simply, wrong. It's 180 degrees the opposite of what is happening in FFVII, the biggest constant in Clouds life, is that he doesn't take Tifa for granted, and I don't understand how anyone could argue otherwise.

According to the short story "Picturing the past" the people in black cloacks (aka the Sephiroth clones) have the tendency to reunite at the Sector 7 train graveyard.

The train graveyard is located next to Sector 7 station, the place where Tifa found Cloud right before the beginning of the game.

The meeting with Tifa triggered the creation of Cloud's alter ego: SOLDIER-Cloud.

It may be just a coincidence but this mural is exactly in front of the station and next to the train graveyard

"Use your imagination"

"Shoot for the stars"

Such nice details!

well-adjusted young man

I want to express just a quick and superficial thought about the impact of Zack on SOLDIER-Cloud's personality since I've recently had a discussion about it.

Some months ago I stated that in this scene (not only here btw)...

... Cloud is mimicking Zack's attitude.

The person I was discussing with mentioned the quote from the Ultimania according to which "Cloud puts up a cool facade with Aerith and shows his real self when he's with Tifa", so what I had written had to be nothing but a great nonsense. Probably they thought I was trying to invalidate any romance between Cloud and Tifa in favour of Aerith, even if it would be a total contradiction since the fiercest CA fans spent more than two decades trying to loosen the connection between Zack and SOLDIER-Cloud... But I wouldn't be surprised to hear these kind of theories since the upcoming Ultimania Plus is seemingly going to show the same concept...

ANYWAY, no time for digressions.

I'd like to add a comparison with one of Cloud's DMW sequences from Crisis Core

I think it's hard not to notice the similarity with Tifa's resolution and the scene in Cloud's room in Chapter 4

But let it be clear, this doesn't mean - and I've never meant to say it - that Cloud is acting through Zack's intentions. As long as the devs don't provide further info, all we know is that Cloud didn't inherit Zack's memories, let alone his feelings. If so probably he would be much more devoted to Aerith.

Zack knew Cloud liked Tifa, he would have never flirted with her. Never.

Cloud's always been socially awkward, insecure, uncapable to approach Tifa in any way. Now I don't want to go too much into SOLDIER-Cloud's convoluted personality but he acts through his own intentions - confused intentions at this point of the story, but still his own. Only the way he expresses himself mimics Zack's.

That quote from the developers says that "when he talks to Tifa his real self briefly emerges". BRIEFLY. Stating that Cloud with Tifa is always his real self goes totally against this story and the dynamics behind the creation of his alter ego. His feelings for her are sealed deep into his subconscious, Cloud himself says "I don't know how to explain" when he's asked about what Tifa means for him.

That line has to be contextualized to make sense. I think this concept just shows something that was already in the OG: the player could choose to be rude with Aerith, even during her date (probably to show his conflicted feelings), but never with Tifa, he's always been istinctively soft with her. He gets jealous, he lets her into his personal space, he touches her and lets her touch him, and when they're in dangerous situations he's istinctively protective.

And not because Tifa is better than Aerith but because real-Cloud's character arc revolves around Tifa, like it or not. There's no need to twist a simple line from the devs nor to diminish the impact of Zack on SOLDIER-Cloud to prove it.

Advent Children Complete | Last Order

Zack and Cloud / Cloud and Denzel

Final Fantasy VII - Zack Fair

Original | Last Order | Crisis Core/Advent Children

Photo mode allows the player to restore the true colors of Elmyra's flashback.

As it turns out, when Elmyra adopts Aerith the ribbon is green.

(image source)

Aerith's ribbon: is it still a gift from Zack?

It has been rumored by some fans that the Crisis Core scene where Zack gave Aerith the pink ribbon is no more canon, because kid Aerith has a pink ribbon too.

I don't mean to sound pretentious but...they're evidently different. Kid Aerith's ribbon has four ends, adult Aerith's ribbon has just two.

Since the original FFVII kid Aerith's had two outfits. She wore the blue outfit in the first part of Elmyra's flashback and the orange one when Tseng tried to convince her to return to Shinra.

In the Remake she wears the orange outfit only in the train graveyard vision and the blue one in all of Elmyra's flashback, from the moment she found her at the station up to when Tseng showed up. It's definitely not very evident because of the sepia tone filter, but we can compare her dress to the concept art and to the orange dress: she has no ribbon on the chest but wears a pinafore dress and a light shirt with bell sleeves.

This means that in the sepia toned scene she was wearing the green ribbon, as we can see from the concept art.

The scene at the train graveyard bears many similarities with the situation described in Picturing the Past, so she was wearing the orange outfit before escaping Shinra HQ.

When Elmyra found her and brought her in Sector 5 she had the green ribbon, not the pink one.

Someone tried to say Aerith stated the ribbon was a gift from her mother when she met Cloud at the church...

Nice try, but she was talking about White Materia. (Leaving a couple of links in case anybody wanted to check: OG, Remake)

So, not only there's no evidence that the pink ribbon is no more Zack's gift but that scene influenced also an important moment of the Remake: Aerith and Cloud's first encounter.

And in both cases the gift was made in order to thank the other for their help

CC: To show you my gratitude for that "hello" that woke me up.

Remake: You know, for scaring those things away.

Ehhh...can I say what a coincidence again?

Aerith’s Farewell Monologue at FF 30th Anniversary Exhibition hinting FF7R

The event, entitled “Farewell Stories Exposition,” was held from January 22 to February 28, 2018 in the Mori Arts Center Gallery in Roppongi Hills, Tokyo. It will reportedly feature interactive exhibits featuring various “farewell stories” from the Final Fantasy series, including recreated locations and augmented reality. Final Fantasy VII’s exhibit is described as follows: 

Aerith met a tragic death in the story of the original game. In this exhibition, the “Sector 5 Church” where Aerith and the protagonist Cloud first met will be recreated. Freely walk around the inside of the church while listening to a monologue of Aerith’s memories specially recorded for this exhibition. Additionally, never before seen image boards for the long-awaited Final Fantasy VII Remake and more will also be on display.

Scenario by Kazushige Nojima, voice-over by Maaya Sakamoto

Let’s analyze her monologue with official translation below: 

(1) “I hate the sky, it carries away everyone I Iove” Confirmed by Nomura in FF7R Ultimania as this line is voiced up in FF7R ending. This is because the sky represents losing everyone she loved, including Zack, as CC ending depicts a scene of his spirit soaring to the sky / heaven with Angeal picking him up. Let’s forget OG that depicted she’s unaware of his death. Aerith is Cetra and she could sense it–CC showed us and it doesn’t contradict her sensing Elmyra’s husband passing away. (2) “This is a strange place. Flowers bloom all year long. The seasons never change–my feelings never change. I’m stuck.” I think ‘strange place’ refers to the church. Maybe at first she feel close to planet there despite denying her Cetra ability, place she can detach herself. But then, since that day it was also the place where she always meet him. Nomura stated in CC interviews at Dengeki, that Zack always headed straight to the church whenever something comes up. Her feeling lingers there and she’s stuck. (3) "That’s it. I give up! I can’t stop thinking of you. Ugh, I can’t stand this!” Honestly, all these lines aren’t arranged by order and I don’t know which the right order is. Is this line spoken up during years he’s absent? Or during months after Zack’s death? Or, is it still last even after FF7R ending? The implication would be different. (4) “Helloooo~ Wake up. It’s almost morning.” Pretty clear. Both Zack and Cloud crashed into her church in the same way, talk in their sleep, and she wakes them up in the same way, too. (5) “Don’t step on the flower.” Pretty clear. Aerith scolded Zack, and Reno & Cloud when they are fighting. (6) “Sometimes I see someone who has the same eye. Same as you, I mean. And I wonder, should I ask: do you know him? do you know where he is?” Pretty clear. FF7R change the playground scene different from OG, and this is an explicit reference from Crisis Core. JP lines are even the exact same words for words like when she stared at Zack’s eyes. She even has asked Cloud in Sector 5 if he had any SOLDIER friend or war buddy. (7) “I know goodbye will be hard. But when I think of meeting someone new, I still get so excited. It’s cruel.” I think this is Aerith struggling with her feeling between Zack and Cloud. She knew she has to “Gotta move forwards, not back” as she stated in the playground, but it’s so damn hard that she might have this motivation conflicted for so long even before meeting Cloud. Aerith also stopped walking forward a while when Zack in another timeline passed her by. We knew in the future, she would meet more people… Yuffie, Vincent, Cid. Would she say goodbye again to Zack at that spot? (8) “Stamp… Stamp! Guess, you’re gone too.” We know that the Stamp in Zack’s survival timeline has changed, but does her line refer to the old Stamp? Or just Stamp in general that could make Cloud get buzz on his head ‘cause it represent Zack when Barret mention it?  (9) “Things won’t last forever. Sure, it’s lonely. It’s sad. But I can say "bye” with a smile, right?“ She doesn’t say "bye” to Zack with a smile. I guess this fits the narration in optional dream sequence in chapter 14, as well as the next dream Cloud will get that she goes to Forgotten City alone. (10) “You came. Thank you, I’m glad. But you’re already….” I’m not sure about this. Does this represent the time she prays in Forgotten City that Cloud comes to her but he’s under Sephiroth’s control? Or does this represent a future event in the next installment about her reunion with the Zack who survives and she knew he’s supposed to be dead? Or does this refer to the optional dream sequence that she’s aware Cloud isn’t himself? Too many interpretations. (11) “You’re so far now. I’m so far from you. Oh, I’m rising. The sky is carrying me away. I can see you, you’re crying. Don’t cry, you’ll make it rain.” Cloud gets a future vision where we saw he drops a single tear and this line is 100% her farewell to Cloud when it happened. But…. Is the line foreshadowing her death that would be different from OG? We know in OG, she’s sunk down to the bottom of the lake in Forgotten City. But with all of these lines above correlated with FF7R, we’d probably get her death similar to Kadaj in AC as Cloud holds his dying body… her spirit (like Zack, not her body like Kadaj) then soar to the sky and both scenes are raining (although the Kadaj one is raining from Great Gospel as she heals geostigma around Edge). Her death should happen in the place where the open sky can be clearly seen (whether it’s clear blue or cloudy with rain), and Forgotten City doesn’t fit the definition as it’s surrounded by sleeping forest. If Zack was taken by Angeal and Kadaj was taken by Aerith, I guess Aerith would be taken by Zack here (either showing his glove’s hand like Angeal did in CC or with his voice like Aerith did in AC). And the monologue above would be spoken up later, similar to Zack in CC when he watch over Cloud dragging Buster Sword to Midgar. Or maybe, her death would still happen in Forgotten City but SE now use new meta of the death. So, we would see her soul is separated away as Cloud is laying her body to the lake. It doesn’t mean Aerith is still alive when the party fight Jenova Boss tho′, remember Zack died longer before the sky set the sun to show his spirit goes to the sky.

——

This Aerith’s farewell story above can have two meanings: 

75% her farewell to Zack (as he died before her), start with him

25% her farewell to Cloud (as she died in front of him), end with him 

Why the portion is different? Well, Zack took ‘1.5 years active relationship + 4 years writing 89 letters + 3 months grieving his death’ in her life while Cloud take 2-3 weeks of them being together in her journey. 

Aerith in light of healthcare provider

So, I’ve wanted to write an analysis about Aerith in light of her medical viewpoint for quite a long time but only recently got the chance to complete it. It is well known in the game that Aerith is the healer of the story. She possessed great MP with a limit break to heal and buff people which greatly affect your gameplay. Of course, you can equip others with Healing and Prayer materias to render them useful for healing as well. But story-wise, no one can take away Aerith’s status as the healer. We know in canon that Aerith provided herbs to the Sector 5 slums doctor to create medicine. And if you finished the Corneo Stash side quest in Chapter 14, you can return to the church and see a couple of elderly sitting on the pew praying. And when you come closer to them you’ll hear them talking about how they didn’t see Aerith around and they’re sure she’s alright and probably be around healing people. You know, since the Sector 7 plate just fell. (Even though Aerith is not alright actually coz she was kidnapped by Shinra by this time) Point is, we are fed by the NPCs on how much Aerith had helped around as a healer. She had been doing this for years.

While being in denial about who she actually is, being a healer had always been implanted in her. She is used to it. When you’re used to being a healer, there’s a certain level when you have different reaction compared to others. The way you think is different. Apart from that, she’s also a Cetra. And we knew for a fact Cetra had a certain affinity towards souls who are returning to the Planet. Meaning, as much as she is used to healing others, she’s also used to sensing death.

My whole point is that, being a Cardiac Anaesthesiologist and Intensivist as I am, I can totally relate my position with Aerith, as we both had constantly helped people and encounter death on daily basis. While I’m pretty confident that majority of these might be coincidence (because I’m pretty sure there were no doctors in the SE team), I thought the coincidence is pretty cool to ponder upon and I’m amazed at how the subtle differences between Aerith’s reaction to events from other characters.

I’m gonna ignore the meta part of Aerith, mainly because I’m not discussing about how much Aerith knew, and if there was anything in jeopardy of what she knew whatsoever. So we’re gonna focus on the fact that she is used to healing and feeling people’s death. People who are used to death on daily basis had a certain unique view on life and death. And that affects how we act upon facing them too. While this is evident throughout Remake, I’m gonna focus on the plate drop event to be more concise. I will also use Tifa as comparison to make it easier to see the difference between the reaction of the two. Let’s start!

1) Aerith is quick in emergency situation.

When you are used to people dying, you developed a certain immunity and you are able to have sound mind and composure at sudden change of event. As healthcare providers, we face stable situations turning into critical real fast. And we have a switch in our minds that turn us from standby mode to rescue mode. This is exactly what happened to Aerith when Don Corneo revealed Shinra’s plan to blow up Sector 7’s support pillar. Tifa is part of Sector 7. It is her home. Which was why her reaction showed how she was super devastated, she slowly stood up and muttered “They wouldn’t…” because she couldn’t believe it. Aerith? She had that switch in her mind, and she immediately turned and say “Come on, guys! We gotta go!”. She switched into that critical mode in a second. It helps that she’s also not personally connected to Sector 7, and thus her judgement was not as impaired. Of course, they both switched into critical mode in the sewer, but it was at the moment of reveal that made it different. Just like how healthcare providers switched at the moment of reveal that their patients are at the brink of death—you immediately jumped into rescue mode.

2) She plans for the worst.

Remember after they defeated Abzu and Tifa started to question Corneo’s information? She didn’t want to believe it, because it didn’t make sense to destroy your years of efforts building the plate just to get back to a small group like AVALANCHE. Think about the money they put in to build it, they’re gonna have to put them all again. In fact, along their way out of the sewer, Tifa voiced out multiple times how this had been bothering her. But I’m intrigued with Aerith’s reply “If he’s telling the truth, then we should go. And if it turns out he was lying, then so what?”. This here is exactly what doctors do. We plan and prepare for the worst. And if the worst didn’t happen, then so what? If you have ever had a life saving surgery, your doctors would tell you “You need this surgery coz you might die. But if you do the surgery, there’s a high chance you’ll survive, but there’s a small chance you’ll die too”. And we prepare for that small chance that our patients die. No, we don’t let our preparations lacking because we hope they’ll survive. We prepare to the worst outcome possible and get all the equipments ready in case they’ll die. If they didn’t, then so what? It doesn’t mean our preparations were futile efforts. It only means we were prepared. And that line of Aerith seriously hits home to me.

3) She hopes for the best.

Before they crossed the water sewer, Tifa once again voiced out how she couldn’t stop thinking about what Corneo said, and she was still hoping that he was lying. And then Aerith said “The future isn’t set in stone”. (Again, I’m gonna ignore the meta part of Aerith) And then she proceeded to set up that small date with Tifa. Believe it or not, this is actually what we do during bad calls. We’d talk about what we would do after all this ends; we’d go out dining, or playing games/darts, or go drinking, or whatever it is that makes us happy. Just to keep our minds calm and to allow us to hope for the future, even if it’s just a few hours away. It gives us hope and courage to go on. We plan for the worst, but we hope for the best. The more critical the situation is, the more you need to be level headed. And needless to say, after this point onwards, Tifa is much more calmed down from her struggle to keep herself focus.

4) She follows orders.

This might sound weird to some, but the ability to cast away your worry and focus on what you can do, instead of what you should do, is important in emergency situations. You need to know what you don’t know. You don’t get in the way of your comrades. If you’re not good in intubating, you don’t insist to intubate in emergency situations just because you wanna help. Seriously, you’ll just make things worse. When Cloud, Tifa and Aerith were attacked before climbing up and out of the sewer, Cloud asked both Tifa and Aerith to keep going. Aerith immediately answers “Okay” and left—without a single but. This is significant, because it shows that Aerith knew she’d be better off leave. She doesn’t need to offer help, coz her help was not needed. This is not the place where she could help. The ability to recognise this is very important for healthcare professionals. Tifa was a bit more reluctant to leave, but that’s probably because she is a martial artist in game. Also, the fact that Aerith could still joke “We’re not delicious” is just so real lol! Yup, we joke sometimes when we’re facing deaths—doesn’t mean we lose focus in saving the dying person in front of us, don’t worry. And then it happens again when they reached Sector 7 when Cloud asked them to stay with Wedge as he goes up, and Aerith immediately answered “sure"—because she can “patch” Wedge up, it’s where her abilities lie. This is even more accentuated when an injured Wedge argued that he can still fight, when he clearly can't—making this point even more obvious. Aerith is someone with the healthcare mind, Wedge was not.

5) She supports her comrades emotionally even when she’s worried too.

When they reached the surface, they spotted Shinra helicopter. Cloud assured them they’re only on patrol. Aerith turned to Tifa and said “Don’t worry, we’ll make it in time”. This moment is also very iconic to me. As I mentioned, I’m an anaesthesiologist. We are the support doctors to surgeons and physicians. Those moments when we’re operating on a AAA surgeries and the patient is losing litres of blood and literally dying, we’re pumping bloods in with our hands and get those Level 1 machines operating, and the surgeons would be panicking because it keeps bleeding? Yep, I did say it before. “We’ll make it. Just concentrate with the surgery and don’t worry about the bleeding”, even though I’m sweating and dying here trying to keep the patient alive. But I pretended to be calm in front of my team and cheered them on. Because the whole team need to keep calm. If one of the team lose hope, then bid your chance farewell. As an anaesthesiologist, we’re almost like the anchor in the room. People look at us to know if everything’s alright. I need to tell them it’s alright, so they need not worry. Aerith knew Tifa is worried. And she tried to keep Tifa calm with reassurance.

6) She doesn’t discriminate.

After they defeated the ghost at the haunted maintainance facility, Cloud tried to kill it, and Aerith didn’t let him. When Cloud said that thing was dangerous, Aerith said she knows and added “but even so…” she didn’t feel right about killing it. (Let’s ignore the fact that the Ghoul was a lonely creature for now) It then goes to drop the train wreck which almost killed them had it not been for Cloud. Now this would have been avoided had Aerith let Cloud killed it—maybe. But here’s the thing. When you’re hyper aware that people are dying left and right, you value life more. No one deserve to die, even the worst criminal in the world. You’re a law-abiding citizen? You’re a criminal? It doesn’t make a difference to us. I know this is something super hard to comprehend. But technically only when the law subject the criminal to death sentence that a person should be left to die. I’ve been a doctor for eleven years, I was a prison doctor for two. I had first hand experience of dealing with criminals. It’s not my job to determine whether they deserved to die or not. It’s not my call whether they will turn a new leaf or not had they lived. I know this is something others find difficult to relate and agree—happens to my non-medical family and friends. The verdict to us is simple. It’s a life. It’s worth saving. Period. (Technically the ghosts are dead though but my point still stands)

7) She tries in her best abilities and lets go of what is out of her control.

Tifa’s emotions are tampered again when they confirmed Shinra was going to drop the plate when they overheard the Turks conversation. Her voice shook, we can literally hear it. Aerith’s response was “all we can do now is keep moving”. And she’s right. When they reached Sector 7 and the Whispers were preventing them, she said “we have to get past whatever it takes”. And later on Tifa left to help Cloud and Barret, and Aerith agreed to get to Seventh Heaven to ensure Marlene’s safety. Wedge had a short mental breakdown when he realised he was no good to anyone up or down the crime scene. And Aerith told him “We can still save a lot of lives”, “That’s no excuse to give up”, “I need to know I did everything I could”. Her encouragement helped Wedge save more people. Some argued, did she not care about the lives that already died? Now here’s my point; no, we don’t. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but really. What can we do for people who are already dead? Nothing. What can we do to people who are still alive? Everything. And this is the core of being a healthcare provider—we prioritise. Yes, we’re also humans. We can get emotional when our own friends and relatives die. (Aerith might not be as calm had it happened at Sector 5) But when we put the healthcare provider cap on, we meant business. That is why when disasters happened, and we triage people with black tag? That’s when we know we couldn’t do anything for them. We don’t mourn at the black tags. We move on to the other tags instead. So that we know we already did everything in our power to help. And yes, it doesn’t matter even if we lost more lives than we saved. It’s worth it, even if we only saved one person out of thousands deaths. Just like how Aerith saved Betty in Sector 7, that one life is worth it.