Terra-fatalis - Terra Fatalis

He's correct and he should say it.

Marlene knows him well.

Marlene is a smart kid.

Trust Marlene.

As I say constantly, there's a time and place for everything, different types of conversations that have different kinds of approaches. Half the battle seems to consistently be about finding the best approach for discussions or taking in material. I tour a lot of the FF and KH fandom, amongst others every now and then, and it's...bad. It's bad every where, I suppose.

Approach to analysis is important. Analyzing to prove vs. to understand is different.

Proving, through that of a preconceived conclusion, an agenda—this has way too many potential issues. This is where you run into confirmation bias, cherry-picking, contextual problems, logical fallacies, contradictions, or really just, inefficient takes that manipulate the information to fit into whatever someone is trying to prove. Instead of investigating the little, square-shaped hole and what naturally fits or doesn't fit, hell, even what could fit through even if it's the wrong shape but the right size—you might end up just trying to force this big triangle through, changing the hole itself or destroying the whole thing altogether.

This doesn't always turn out this way, like when making fun theories, but boy have I seen that more often. Even theories can end up being negative. I mean, I'VE done that before years ago, and had to realize my own immaturity when I started getting indignant. Once you get passed that, you realize how tiring it is to even be this way.

However, if your goal is To Understand, you're in a much better position to take in the material as it is. You let what's there, what's a part of it, to shape the conception of your conclusions and that of your perception. You rely on the information and corresponding outliers to be the context. It may even change or challenge your preconceptions and personal perspective, and you have to be willing to allow the material to do that. It's natural when taking something in the first time to have some type of idea or understanding—subtext in and of itself relies on an audience's ability to already understand something. However, once you settle down and say "let me look at this", you have to free yourself, well FROM yourself, a bit, as much as you can. Because even certain content as it is enforces a bit of our own thoughts to understand it (like subtext). But, you have to try for the sake of being objective, because it's not about you at that point, it's about the thing you're examining. This is much more fun, for me.

This is definitely a general thing, but in regards to fandom, it gets real twisted, and you have people who aren't letting the content itself be the leading point to what they understand, and the logic used is reflective of that. It's actually easy for this to happen, on different levels, so it's not always this super negative or mal-intent thing.

But damn when it is, and people eat up that bullshit, it can be real bad, cause confusion, and at times make if very difficult to even talk about the content itself because then it isn't about it, it's about something else. Real life, yeah, but I feel like fandoms are petri-dishes for this type of thing because of the inclination of personal investment and feelings.

hi there but can you describe to what this is suppose to mean (In the RPG text, there was a method to make it easier to understand who's line by using "I", "I", "I" etc. for each character, but "There was a notational fluctuation, so I replaced it completely. There was something like "ta ~", long ago) - Kazushige Nojima. apparently people are taking Nojima's words here as saying the Eng localization and maybe the others as well for 7 remake as bad? is that really the case tho?

Yeah, I remember that. It's one of those moments I start to think that some people shouldn't comment on languages they don't know, and/or don't know how to navigate via translation/dictionaries—especially when this is combined with selfishly following their own agendas by skirting context. We know people do this. Happens all the time with source materials, or even epitexts like guidebooks or interviews. But, it's more annoying when it directly involves a writer's social media account within the drama. It's just really bad.

But let's contextualize.

Every now and then on his Twitter, when he isn't posting about his cute pets (lol), Nojima will post something related to video games/writing, and it'll also often be when you see a small part of the twitter FF7 ENG fanbase parading around his tweets with comments or likes. For instance, a tweet where he talked about leaving room for imagination and interpretation, or when talking about scenario writing. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have this interaction, though sometimes people will say weird things. You'll also find that his tweets like this usually get a good amount of attention as opposed to when he talks about his pets.

That's when we get to the tweet you're referring to, I'd reckon this being the most attention he's ever gotten for a personal tweet. Here's a decent translation, w/ some things added in w/ brackets for clarity:

RPGのテキストで、キャラごとに「ぼく」「僕」「ボク」などを使い分けることで誰の台詞か判りやすくする、なんて手法があったけど「表記ゆれがあったので僕に全置換しときました～」なんてのはわりとありました、昔。

In RPG texts, there was a technique of using different words for each character to make it easier to identify who is speaking, such as "I" [ぼく], "I" [僕], "I" [ボク], etc. However, a long time ago someone would say something like "there was inconsistency in the notation [orthographical variants], so I completely replaced them with I [僕]".

A couple of things.

At its core, this is just a comment about game development/writing. There is no "shade" (I really hate this immature perspective), there is no talk about localization. That was made up by people who don't know how to translate or navigate JPN text. What he's essentially talking about is: how there were different ways to write characters referring to themselves, but how in the past, this was averted and made consistently one way.

That's it.

As you can see, this absolutely has nothing to do with the Remake, and I would wager it also has nothing to do with the OG. This all hinges on the proposed reason for the technique—to make it easy to identify/understand whose dialogue is whose. For the Remake, this issue is nonexistent in today's age considering voice acting, and for the OG, the dialogue boxes identified who the speaker was anyway. Really, this also doesn't automatically apply to all localizations, especially ENG, because of the way the corresponding languages work. Especially in ENG, there's not a lot of natural variances for someone just saying "I" in writing. The closest thing is something more akin to an attribute to characterization (as opposed to clarification of who is speaking), like a character referring to themselves in third person instead of "I", a godly character saying "this one" when referring to themselves, or a character egregiously saying something like "me thinks". For characterization purposes, something close in the OG would be how the 5 bosses of Pagoda had different methods of speaking, which the ENG didn't follow suit apparently.

While an issue of "JPN did this but ENG didn't" does apply to, say, that situation with the 5 bosses: one, you still need to think of the context of how certain things don't directly work for every language, and two, even the example Nojima brings up doesn't exactly apply the same way the examples I mentioned or the 5 bosses do.

Which in this case, Nojima brings up the example of different ways to write what would be pronounced as "Boku" (I, me)—the hiragana ぼく, the kanji 僕, and the katakana ボク versions of the exact same word. They would be the "orthographical variants" [表記ゆれ]—and I was very tempted to translate it as the following meaning—which is simply referring to "words with the same pronunciation and meaning, but different written forms". I wrote "inconsistency in the notation" to signify how this was a situation where someone saw these orthographical variants (or fluctuations, as some translated) and wanted to change them to one, consistent thing. This....is really just a notation thing. Kana is for pronunciation + writing sake, all three of these aren't completely different words. This is different than the 5 bosses example, as the Lifestream user mentions 私 (watashi), ワシ (washi), オラ (ora), and わらわ (warawa)—those are actually all legitimately different words + pronunciations AND mean "I, me". Much more appropriate and often done in JPN fiction.

Nojima's example of 僕/ぼく/ボク ( all "Boku") is not the same, and honestly, it absolutely makes a lot of sense why someone would look at that and think....why? When the 5 bosses example would be the better approach instead imo.

Anyway, the problem with people who misunderstand this is that they're wanting to take this scenario and create a narrative that Nojima is mentioning this specific instance, that isn't even relevant for the Remake, as a means to talk bad about his fellow development team members and reference other "issues" in the Remake's localization. Hell, even look at the comments, which are all from JPN speakers, one of which is someone else who works at SE. None of which are talking about the Remake or all localizations (which literally....why would JPN speakers be doing this???)—just writing for games in general. I’m assuming this tweet gained such massive traction because of how most things ever do, but it isn’t some conspiracy in the making where he talks bad about his fellow employees.

And the funny thing is that, it absolutely can and does apply to the development for even just the JPN version, as this would happen even at the stages of which editing, proofreading, and programming these texts into the game—now, this CAN also apply at the stages of localization, but in addition to what otherwise is also for the JPN. Nojima could vary well be referring to something that happened when making the JPN version of a game long ago, NOT any of its localizations. That isn't made clear.

What is clear, however, is that Nojima isn't talking about Remake or even directly localization. This is just people reaching for their own twisted purposes, and as always, it's annoying. 

It’s just about pronunciation.

It’s just fandom being fandom. Insubordinate. And churlish.

We'd seriously need a clear paraphrase to get over the misinterpretations about this song.

Guitar is the main instrument in both Hollow and Hollow Sky, just like Crisis Core soundtrack, especially CC Aerith's theme, The price of freedom and Why, all playing at the end of the game to narrate THAT scene. And Why has a guitar acoustic version too.

Hollow sky plays in Sector 5, an homage to Crisis Core, "sky" is the symbol of Zack and, coincidentally, the new key art of Aerith has her staring at the sky.

Funny: Aerith's final line is about the sky and Hollow starts when Zack shows up at the end.

All coincidences I guess.

Tetsuya Nomura discussing the Final Fantasy VII Remake theme song

Zack’s Last Stad 

Find the differences!

CRISIS CORE vs FF7R comparison

Parallel #7

Same pose...

...Same words

[Previous]

FFVII Remake Easter Eggs and compilation continuity - Part 7: OG FINAL FANTASY VII

ELEMENTS ORIGINALLY SHOWED AFTER THE MIDGAR SECTION & VISIONS OF THE FUTURE

CAIT SITH

This character didn’t show up until the group reached the Gold Saucer. In the Remake he witnesses the plate fall.

YUFFIE

In the OG Yuffie could only be recruited after visiting the Mythril Mines and nothing hints she had ever been in Midgar before. Now she is the protagonist of Intermission, spending a whole day in Midgar, getting to see Barret’s cell and infiltrating in Shinra HQ thanks to Avalanche. Some main points of this character have already been shown like the rivalry between her and her father, some details of the Wutai war and even her motion sickness.

ROMANTIC RUDE

In the OG Rude confessed Reno that he liked Tifa. In the Remake, when he spotted her on the Sector 7 pillar, he deviated the chopper to prevent Reno from killing her.

Reno: Dammit! You wanna explain yourself, partner?

Rude: Uh... Hand slipped.

PALMER’S TEA

In the original, at Cid’s house, Palmer asked for some tea with “sugar, honey and lard”. In the Remake he walks in the corridor of Shinra HQ with a cup of tea, complaining that he ran out of butter (though in Japanese it’s still “lard”).

Oh dear, oh dear... A man of my refined tastes running out of butter! Shorn of its proper accompainment, this tea...might as well be boiled pond water!

BLACK-CAPED MEN

In the original there was just one clone in Midgar, in Sector 5, and he wasn’t wearing the black cape yet, while in the Remake they can be met also in Midgar. 

The Remake also confirms that also some former SOLDIERs can turn into caped men, something that the OG revealed only in an optional scene in Junon.

OG: I used to be in SOLDIER. Lately I’ve felt like dressing up like this...

Remake: My dad told me that that man, he used to be a SOLDIER when he was younger. I heard he came back because he got sick or something. Isn't that kinda weird? Can SOLDIERs even get sick?

This concept is further - more openly - reiterated also in Intermission:

Nayo: Mako poisoning. That's what happens if you don't make the grade as a SOLDIER...or when the military's done using you.

REUNION

When Cloud attacks Marco believing he’s Sephiroth he has a vision of the Reunion at Whirlwind Maze.

BARRET’S PAST

In the Remake Barret mentions the day he survived from the destruction of his home town, while in the original this happened one the group arrived in Corel.

Wouldn't be the first time I spit in destiny's eye. Whether you can see the seams or you can't...doesn't change that she's always trying to have it her way.

JENOVA

In the original game the first fight against Jenova took place on the Cargo ship, while in the Remake the group fights it in Chapter 17. 

Note: the first form of Jenova in the original was called Jenova∙BIRTH (followed later by Jenova∙LIFE, Jenova∙DEATH and Jenova∙SYNTHESIS). In Remake it is called Dreamweaver, referring to its ability to project illusions, while the Japanese sticks to the original calling it Jenova Beat, hinting to the prenatal heartbeat of fetuses. 

LIFESTREAM

During the presentation at Cosmo theatre (an allusion itself to Cosmo Canyion) the group can see a depiction of the Lifestream flowing throughout the Planet. In the original this only happened at the very end when Aerith summoned it. 

MATERIA

During the aforementioned presentation it was explained how the Ancients were able to create Materia with condensed Lifestream, while in the original it was explained during the flashback in Kalm.

7R: In the distant past, our planet was home to a people we call the Ancients. Many millennia before we discovered mako, these precursors were already pioneering its use. Somehow they learned of the great reservoir of energy pulsing beneath their feet. And once they had...the Ancients developed the means to harness this bountiful energy and bend it to their will. The fruits of their labors have survived to this very day in the form of certain kinds of materia.

OG: Materia. When you condense Mako energy, materia is produced. It’s very rare to be able to see materia in its natural state. (...)...the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients is held in the Materia.

PROUD CLOD

During intermission Yuffie can see the Proud Clod still under construction stored in Shinra underground. Moreover, the Pride and Joy Prototype (in Japanese: Proud Clad Unit Zero) is a boss that can be fought in Shinra battle simulator.

MIND READER

During the second bombing mission Tifa jokingly asks Cloud if he could read her mind. This is a hint to Jenova’s ability to read minds.

7R:  I swear, your timing was perfect. It's almost like...you could read my mind. SOLDIERs can't do that, can they?

OG: Inside of you, Jenova has merged with Tifa’s memories, creating you.

CHILDHOOD MEMORIES

In the Remake Cloud "remembers” two episodes of his childhood in Nibelheim, scenes that originally were included in the Lifestream sequence in Mideel.

BURNING TOWN

During the first vision of Sephiroth in Chapter 2, Cloud re-experiences the distruction of NIbelheim. This info wasn’t revealed in the OG until the flashback in Kalm.

TEST SUBJECT

When Cloud, Barret and Tifa discover the secret underground lab with specimen detained in mako tanks, Cloud starts remembering his captivity in the basement of Shinra Mansion. This was originally revealed only in the optional cutscene in the basement of the Mansion, after the Lifestream sequence.

MAKO POISONING

Mako poisoning is an element that in the OG was explained just in Mideel, while in the Remake Jessie’s father suffers of the same condition. A sector 7 NPC also witnesses one of Cloud’s Jenova headaches and suggests he may be Mako poisonesd (before the whispers intervene).

7R: [Chapter 3] What the—You okay, buddy? Mako junkie, huh? Figures...

[Chapter 4] Jessie's got a theory about it. Thinks her dad's spirit is stuck now—between his body and the heart of the planet.

OG: He probably has no idea who or where he is now... Poor fellow, his voice doesn’t even work. He is literally miles away from us. Some place far away where no one’s ever been... All alone...

UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH

Discovering that in reality Cloud never made it in SLDIER was a pivotal plot twist of the OG. In the Remake that’s hinted more than once, until Hojo openly reveals it. 

No, not quite. Oh, now I recall. My memory was mistaken. My boy, you weren't a SOLDIER...

SEPHIROTH’S DEATH

In Chapter 2 Cloud remembers he killed Sephiroth. This is surprising as in the OG, during Kalm flashback, he told the group that he didn’t know what happened to Sephiroth after Nibelheim incident, even pointing out that, in terms of strength, he couldn’t have killed him.

AERITH’S DEATH

Cloud has some visions of Aerith’s death: after falling in her church in Chapter 8 (pics 2 and 3) and at the beginning of Chapter 9 (pics 1 and 4). Moreover he and the rest of the group have a blurred vision of her death in Chapter 18, Aerith’s refers to death in her resolution scene and Sephiroth tells him he’s unable to protect people in Chapter 2 (while seeing Aerith for the first time) and in Chapter 13 (after she’s been kidnapped). 

METEOR

Cloud, and the others have visions of Meteor and the storm that destroyed Midgar at the end of the OG in Chapters 16 and 18. 

Final Fantasy VII - Zack Fair

Original | Last Order | Crisis Core/Advent Children