Latest Posts by analytical-machine - Page 4

carmen as nyarla with boobs: their function is roughly the same, tho in early Personas nyarlathotep targets specific people as part of their game with philemon, who would be… ayin? uh.

does that mean qliphoth deterrence works on personas

manifesting personas as weapons/suits

peccatulums ranking as cannon fodder oppositions in palaces distortion-spaces, does that mean that they can also manifest from thin air?

re: reloads; they don't really match to the 'embodiment of self/desires' so probably not. That said: then Head cracks down hard on them for unpatented/untaxed ammo production

negotiations, but steamlined into MD event setups. and to add to that - REMOVING SMT FROM PERSONA

shadow-possession (P1?/P2/P4) as a full-blown distortion

finally handling jungs "overpowered by their own persona" - with a distortion, naturally

pls elaborate about the sufficent velocity thing

Persona and Project Moon crossover things

because we need more persona project moon crossover stuff hot dang

the well and the sea of souls are like. if they aren't the same thing, they're right next to each other. joker has a fusion accident and ends up with mountain of smiling bodies instead of legion.

give me a plucky teenager who summons One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds as their starter persona.

NETZACH QUEST IN PERSONA 3 IT FITS SO MUCH DAMN (if you're a Sufficient Velocity person you know what i'm talking about)

Post Persona 5 bad ending AU where after getting absolutely wiped from existence, the PT wake up in The City. It's just the logical conclusion to that bad end, where no one is free and only thinks about surviving to the next day. No one hopes, no one dreams, no one believes in anything. The strong crush the weak, the weak gang up on the weaker, and the cycle goes on and on and on. Literally their worst case scenario nightmare.

On that note, Carmen and crew really saw the Fall of Humanity and went "I can fix them!" (they could not)

Considering The Library is made of Light, which is like, concentrated enlightenment and hope, I think Morgana would be drawn to it (and then they all get booked lmao)

Carmen's Palace. Just in general. If she even has one; it's not that her desires aren't distorted, it's that SHE IS THE DISTORTED/ING DESIRE INCARNATE-

Joker manages to capture an Abnormality as a Persona somehow. Shenanigans ensue.

Speaking of shenanigans, considering the way the mind manifests in The City, I wonder if the PT's guns would do that thing they do in Royal where they automatically reload after a fight. On that note, I feel like that trick would fail against higher level humans since their augments likely let them see past the fakeness

JOKER 👏 AND 👏 AKECHI 👏 GONE 👏ANGELS 👏 ANI 👏MATIC👏 YOU 👏 COWARDS 👏👏👏/lh

add more if you like, i would love to discuss further

@lu-is-not-ok

i read lu-is-not-okay's sin analysis guide and it made me think about outis some more (mainly base outis)

TL;DR for the guide: Each sin's meaning is likely different from the mainstream interpretation of them (e.g. Lust does not necessarily mean being horny), and an identity's skills represent the layers of their psyche (With s1 being the surface layer and s3 being the deepest layer of the mind)

I should note that this draws from my previous theory of Outis's story so it might be needed to check that out to clear any confusion. Also, since Outis's story isn't going to be released for a very long time, this is really just conjecture.

Anyway...

Outis has a sloth s1 (Pulled Blade), a pride s2 (Backslash), and a gloom s3 (Piercing Thrust), right?

Going by the guide, Sloth S1 represents Outis's resignation to her circumstances. She's given up on hopes of ever returning home after the Smoke War, believing it to be totally impossible.

Pride S2 likely alludes to a fatal mistake Outis made out of hubris during the Smoke War, one that could possibly even be the reason why she cannot return home. Since we don't have her story yet, this is more based off of Outis's source material.

In The Iliad, the protagonist Odysseus had been captured by a giant called Polyphemus. When he demanded his name, Odysseus told him his name was "Ουτις" (Outis), which means 'nothing' in Greek. Odysseus later blinded the giant, who screamed "Outis (nobody) is killing me!" (and thus leading the other giants to ignore his pleas) and allowed them to escape.

However, before leaving, Odysseus revealed his true name to Polyphemus in an act of hubris, taunting him. As a result, Polyphemus was able to pray to his father Poseidon to curse Odysseus to “[never] reach his native land, to [never] come once more to his own house and see his friends again” and to “let him come late, in evil plight, with all his comrades dead, in someone else's ship, and find troubles in his household."

Sounds pretty familiar to Outis's predicament, right?

Afterwards, gaining a grudge against Odysseus, Poseidon began sabotaging Odysseus's journey. All of which would have been prevented had Odysseus's arrogance not gotten the best of him.

Returning to Limbus Company Outis, I feel like Pride S2 would represent her invoking catastrophe the same way as Odysseus -- in an act of arrogance, she will make a huge mistake with terrible consequences (perhaps being the reason why she cannot return home?). Could be her revealing her identity to the enemy to brag -> said enemy pulls a few strings and finds a way to prevent her from returning home, or it could be something less 1-to-1 with The Iliad. Either way, the skill would allude to her ignoring the consequences of her actions in that one moment.

Alternatively, it could refer to her participating in the Smoke War, not quite aware of the potential consequences that could result from leaving her home.

Finally, Gloom S3. This one is a bit hard to pin down with actual evidence because, again, we know very little about Outis's actual past. Additionally, nothing really suggests that Outis is "overwhelmed" with negative emotions at the time of this post. In fact, she's known for being the most rational and collected sinner, despite her obsequious attitude towards Dante. (There's probably something from The Iliad that I could connect to here, but I honestly don't know that much about the epic.)

That being said, I imagine it'd have something to do with regret. Whatever conceited mistake Outis made came back to bite her in the ass, and now she can never return home to those that wait for her. Indeed, she would definitely dwell on her unfortunate circumstances even if she is resigned to them. "If only I hadn't let my hubris get the better of me."

As for appearing rational and seeming the exact opposite of "overwhelmed with negative emotions"...

I have nothing to support this, but it's possible that Outis's implied duplicity through her sycophantic behavior towards Dante is a front. She's well aware that all of the other Sinners and Vergil think she's going to backstab them at any moment -- that's the point of it. It's a smokescreen to cover up how she actually feels, which is intense lament due to being unable to see her loved ones ever again.

That doesn't necessarily mean said treachery is "fake", since she could still backstab them (although you could argue that if she really did want to betray them, she wouldn't make it so obvious). It's just that she intentionally uses said sycophancy and hints of disloyalty, however genuine they may be, to mask her actual issues and her past.

Outis Base EGO Sin Analysis

Right, I made this blog specifically to analyze her sins… and promptly forgot to do that!

For the meanings of each sin, I’ll be largely referring to this post from @lu-is-not-ok​ (its a very good post, do check it out!)

I originally meant to do her base ID and EGO in the same post, but, the EGO alone goes on for a while. (I’ll probably write up the base ID tomorrow)

Keep reading

Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis

Woo, first post, and its about Heathcliff. Alright straight to the point. Its as the title says, this is a Sin Analysis on all of Heathcliff’s IDs. This was made awhile ago before R Corp. Meursault was revealed. And yes, that does somewhat have something to do with R Corp. Heath. Anyway, this was made using @lu-is-not-ok‘s guide to Sin Analysis….mainly because its much more in-depth than what I could have done on my own. This doesn’t include any E.G.O. because my brain can only do so much. But here it is, my official Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis and how R Corp. Heath has the weirdest Sin affinities when looking at the ID in this light.

LCB Sinner Heathcliff

Envy - Heathcliff’s whole thing is Revenge. His bat has Revenge written on it, clearly showing that getting revenge is his thing. This sin showcases that he wants to get revenge on someone, something or multiple people/things. Due to him being a backstreets kid, he most likely wants revenge on the rich, though its also possible, he wants revenge on whatever got him into his position as a Sinner. This is unlikely to be Catherine due to his last sin affinity.

Wrath - Wrath is about as obvious as Envy. Heathcliff was born in the backstreets and grew up there. His Wrath is his want to defy the rich and prove that even those born in the backstreets can be as good as them, similar to Rodion.

Lust - Lust once again, is obvious. In all honesty, base Heathcliff has pretty basic and obvious sin affinities. The reason that Heathcliff has a Lust sin affinity is due to his want to be with Catherine again.

N Corp. Kleinhammer Heathcliff

Envy - N Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Envy can be seen in two ways. First is the same as Base Heathcliff. He wants to get revenge on the rich for being a backstreets kid. The other is a sort of distorted want for revenge against those with prosthetics. This would fall in line with N Corps. Ideals, but this also falls in line with another N Corp. ID, N Corp. Faust. NFaust also has envy as one of her sins. N Corp. Faust seemingly has no reason to want revenge on anything, but she could want a form of retribution against those with prosthetics, making N Corp. Heathcliff have the same reasoning behind his Envy sin affinity.

Gloom - N Corp. Heathcliff’s Gloom sin affinity represents his past. This version of Heathcliff seems to be much more sad and depressed than most of Heathcliff’s IDs. This is due to both the events that led to his separation with Catherine and his current situation, that being his brainwashing at N Corps. hands. He actively fights against the brainwashing but is slowly failing, as seen through multiple of his voice lines and dialogue.

Lust - Lust for N Corp. Heathcliff would actually be the same as Base Heathcliff. It represents his want and desire to return to Catherine. He directly calls out to them on his Death and even mentions in his Extra Conditions dialogue, that if he keeps this up he will be able to go back one day, almost certainly meaning his want to be with Catherine again.

Shi Association South Section 5 Heathcliff

Lust - Shi Heathcliff is interesting as he shares all the same sin affinities as Base Heathcliff but reversed. Lust for Shi Heathcliff seems to represent his Lust for combat and death, similar to Ryoshu. He doesn’t seem to have any desire to be with Catherine again, if this version of him ever met or was with them in the first place.

Wrath - Shi Heathcliff’s version of Wrath could represent that he doesn’t really like how the Shi operate. He prefers getting personal with his kills and gets bored with the typical fast kills. He would rather do his own thing than actually be an assassin.

Envy - Shi Heathcliff still has a bit of his Revenge attributes in him. He mentions how he will make another Shi member pay for having slept through their alarm. This shows that this aspect of him still exists but to a much lesser degree than his other IDs. Its likely that Shi Heathcliff is still a backstreets kid but it isnt made clear if he wants the same revenge on the rich as his Base ID does.

R Corp. 4th Pack Rabbit Heathcliff

Wrath - Wrath is interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff, as it almost seems to be the opposite of him. He doesn’t care about doing anything other than fight, which is exactly what he exists for as a R Corp. soldier. He likes what he does so its interesting that he has a sin that represents defiance.

Gluttony - Gluttony in context of R Corp. Heathcliff is similar to Lust for Shi Heathcliff. They both want more combat, they want to fight and kill more enemies. R Corp. Heathcliff is a soldier, his existence is combat, even more so due to him most likely being one of R Corps. Clone soldiers.

Envy - Envy is also interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff. Due to him most likely being a clone, he shouldn’t have any reason to want revenge or retribution for anything done to him. He almost certainly doesn’t want to be with Catherine and definitely doesn’t even know who they are. He has everything he wants or cares about. 

Its interesting that R Corp. Heathcliff has two sin affinities that seem to go against his existence. Maybe this is an example of our version of a sinner bleeding into a mirror worlds version, meaning that R Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Wrath and Envy are actually Base Heathcliff’s.

Addendum: 7/11/23 - Since originally writing this, R Corp. Meursault has been revealed, and through his trailer, a pseudo-confirmation that the R Corp. IDs are indeed clones…….which brings in so many other questions when it comes to them, but does make what i said about RHeathcliff, his sin affinities and him being a clone a bit more concrete……it makes it more confusing that he has these affinities since hes a clone and doesnt/shouldnt care about things the other Heath IDs do.

Lobotomy E.G.O::Sunshower Heathcliff

Envy - Envy for Sunshower Heathcliff represents his disdain for Technology. As a member of the Technology Liberation Alliance, he wishes to “liberate” all technology and return to a time before it. But he doesn’t seem to truly care about this.

Gloom - Gloom is easy to understand for Sunshower Heathcliff. All of his friends have died in some way. He doesn’t have anyone and is alone. He roamed the backstreets before joining the TLA and currently does. Its also possible that parts of his sadness are brought about by his E.G.O equipment, as he mentions having cold and dark feelings rush into him when he first put on the E.G.O equipment.

Sloth - Sloth is also easy. Sunshower Heathcliff mentions sleep and sleeping a lot. He is constantly thinking about falling asleep or finding some dark alleyway to stay in, away from everything and everyone else. He doesn’t truly care about anything other than sleeping, after the death of his friends.

Lu's Guide to Sin Analysis

Welp, since my brain is too focused on having K Corp Hong Lu go full unga bunga in Mirror Dungeons to write full analyses, I decided I might as well give something else to all the people starving for Limbus Theory content.

So, here we are. A basic guide on how I approach the Sin Analysis portion of my analyses, covering my personal interpretations for each Sin, as well as how to use those when analysing both E.G.Os and Identities.

That way, ya'll can dabble in doing some of this on your own when I'm too busy grinding my way to 400 hours of play time on Limbus to write up full analyses.

Sounds good? Awesome. Under the cut we go, wheeeee!

Sin Interpretations

Let's start with the most important part - the Sins themselves.

I want you to take a moment and think about your own associations with those Sins. Perhaps your immediate thought is to take the words used literally. Maybe you immediately think back to the Biblical ideas of the Seven Deadly Sins. Mayhaps there's some other media you know that also uses Sins in some way, which you subconsciously default to when thinking about them.

Whatever those associations are, I want you to throw them away.

That's right. Whatever is telling you that Lust = Horny, Wrath = Angry, Envy = Jealous, etc, etc? Throw all of those preconcieved notions away.

This is the biggest mistake I see people make when trying to analyse Identities and E.G.O based on their Sins - they assume that those Sins have the same meanings in the context of Limbus as the popular, more common interpretations of them.

And while, sure, some of them can definitely overlap with what one would expect them to be, I think relying on those during analysis instead of trying to understand what the game itself is trying to tell us by using those Sins as symbols is doing its storytelling a massive disservice.

Do I think my personal interpretations of the Sins are a 100% accurate reading? No, of course not. I can't see into the mind of Kim Ji-Hoon or whoever else at Project Moon might have been the mastermind behind deciding what Sins connect to what. I have no way of knowing what exactly they intended here.

However, I do wish to believe that my interpretations not only strive to meet the game's storytelling on its own terms, but also hopefully make further analysis based on those interpretations a bit easier to wrap one's head around.

...God I really need to stop writing massive preambles and just get to the fucking point.

So let's actually get to The Fucking Point. Sin Interpretations, one by one. Let's fucking do it.

Wrath

The flames of revolution burn bright in the face of cold winds.

Wrath is the Sin of self-righteousness and defiance. To act with Wrath is to decide that one deserves better, that things around then should bend to their will, and then take matters into their own hands. It's the Sin of deciding one has the right to change something simply because they don't like the current state of things.

There are many ways one can act because of Wrath. It can show through trying to rebel against authority, to subvert one's fate, to escape one's unfavorable circumstances, or to even reject one's own true nature. To act with Wrath is to stand up for oneself and tell reality "No, I refuse!" loud and clear.

A common misconception of Wrath is the idea that anger is an inherent part of it. While it's true that those feelings often coincide with defiance, they're not required for one's acts to be fueled by Wrath. Some can be Wrathful while being completely calm and collected, as their acts of defiance could be more on the quiet and simmering side.

Likewise, being quick to anger isn't always a sign of Wrath. It's very possible for someone to have a short temper, while also being fully accepting of the reality they live in (Ryoshu, I am looking directly at you), thus lacking Wrath.

Lust

One's base insticts go all the way back to that genetic code.

Lust is the Sin of self-indulgence. It's the Sin of letting one's own desires and whims dictate one's actions. It's also the Sin of seeking personal fulfillment above all else. To act with Lust is to give up one's self-control and let one's instincts and wants guide them.

Unlike what the name and symbol might initially imply, Lust can include many different types of desires, not just the carnal.

Likewise, acts of Lust can be just as varied as one's desires. Satisfying one's most basic of needs, searching for a form of spiritual enlightenment, or even just saying the first thing that comes to mind because one feels like it are just a few examples.

Sloth

A stone will not care for what happens to it, nor the world around it.

Sloth is the Sin of apathy and resignation. Unlike other Sins, which mostly show through one's direct actions, Sloth can also show through inaction.

To act with Sloth is to ignore reality, to let oneself go along with whatever is happening with barely any complaints. As such, Sloth is commonly associated with blind obedience or unwillingness to act out.

Due to its nature as a Sin of resignation, Sloth can be seen as the direct opposite of Wrath, the Sin of defiance. This creates a unique situation where the inclusion of one can drastically shift the context of the other if both are a part of the same Identity or E.G.O.

Gluttony

Plants never stop waging wars, always wanting just a little bit more.

Gluttony is the Sin of hunger, and it's unique from the other Sins in that it equally represents two different ideas of that hunger, which can appear together just as often as they can be completely seperated.

The first type of Gluttony is one of the starving hunger of survival. In this context, to act with Gluttony is to do anything for the sake of scraping by and living to see another day.

The second type of Gluttony is the hunger for more, or in other words: greed. In this context, to act with Gluttony is to do everything for the sake of this idea of "more". To gain more wealth, to find more recognition, to make more progress.

Both of these types of Gluttony are unified in one main point - they are, by definition, endless. The struggle for survival never ends, unless one fails to survive. Likewise, there is no finite "more" that greed is reaching towards, it's a neverending process of one-upmanship.

Gloom

When a wave of emotion rises, many will be swept away in its wake.

Gloom is the Sin of dwelling on feelings. To act with Gloom is to be guided by one's negative emotions, to buckle under stress and let it control one's mind and actions.

While sadness, grief, and depression are the states of mind most commonly associated with Gloom, and are often a part of it, they're not inherent to it. The only "requirement" here is the experience of severe emotional duress, and acting out in direct response to it.

In a way, Gloom is the Sin of losing control over oneself, not dissimilar to Lust. However, the main difference here is the cause of losing that control. Gloom is the loss of self-control due to being overwhelmed by negative experiences, while Lust is the loss of self-control due to seeking out positive experiences.

Pride

Be careful, for that double-edged sword may cut you as well.

Pride is the Sin of ignoring consequences. Acts of Pride are all actions taken because of the belief that their benefits outweigh the cost in some way. While the most common way this can present is through actions that benefit oneself at the cost of others, it's not the only way Pride can manifest.

One can be Prideful when believing the benefit to many outweighs the consequences. Likewise, refusing to acknowledge the harm one brings to themself because their actions benefit them in some other way also counts as Pride.

The idea that Pride is inherently tied to selfishness or self-confidence is another common misconception. In fact, Prideful acts can manifest just as often from a lack of self-confidence or a misguided selflessness. Rather, one could interpret Pride as a form of willful ignorance, in a way.

Envy

Thorns don't go out of their way to harm, they merely react to your touch.

Envy is the Sin of reaction and retribution. It's the idea of doing something because of what someone else has done. By definition, one cannot act with Envy without some form of provocation.

Like is the case with many other Sins, acts of Envy can take many forms, from taking revenge to following orders. The main connecting idea here is letting oneself be influenced by another person, whether it's being coerced, provoked, ordered, or otherwise manipulated.

Out of all of the Sin misconceptions, seeing Envy as inherently tied to jealousy might be the worst one of all. While acts done out of jealousy would likely count as acts of Envy, they are but a miniscule part of the sheer scope that Envy represents.

...

Alright, so you know what each of those Sins means. Now it's time to figure out how to Actually Apply Them.

Sin Affinities in the context of Identities

The main way Sins play a role in a given Sinner's Identity is through their Sin Affinities. Mechanically, these are the Sins attributed to each of their skills, signifying both their type of Sin damage and what Sin resource they generate upon being used.

However, this is Project Moon we're talking about, and these fuckers can't keep their gameplay mechanics seperate from the story to save their lives.

So, this begs the question: what can we learn about a Sinner's given Identity through their Sin Affinities?

Here is the method that I believe works best in my experience:

The Sin affinities of each of an Identity's skills represent a different layer of their psyche and motivations. I'm going to try to show what I mean by using base Identities of the four Sinners who already had their own Canto.

Skill 1's Sin Affinity is the surface level motivation of the Sinner's actions. This is the most obvious and "shallow" reading of them and their actions, and also likely the one the Sinners themselves are most aware of.

Gregor's Skill 1 is Gloom due to him being constatly haunted by his trauma, with much of his cynicism and dark-ish sense of humor being shaped by his war experiences. Rodya's Skill 1 is Gluttony due to her tendency to value material goods and love for food, which are signs of her greed and will to survive respectively. Sinclair's Skill 1 is Pride due to him taking many actions (such as sharing his father's secrets or giving Kromer his basement key) for their immediate benefits, without considering the consequences. Yi Sang's Skill 1 is Gloom due to him falling into deep depression and letting the trauma of the past shape his current actions.

Skill 2's Sin Affinity is a deeper motivation of the Sinner's actions. It's delving deeper into their psyche to see what guides them in less obvious ways. This Sin Affinity can also have noticeably closer ties to the Sinner's background in one way or another.

Gregor's Skill 2 is Gluttony due to him being driven by the will to survive, most notably expressed by him leaving the rest of the veterans to escape the war and try to live after it ended. Rodya's Skill 2 is Pride due to her fully believing in what she does working out in her favor, completely ignoring consequences on the way. Her killing the pawnbroker is the biggest example of an act of Pride, as she fully believed that it would help her neighbourhood despite the consequences that murder would bring. Sinclair's Skill 2 is Wrath due to him not accepting his circumstances. His want to defy his future prosthetics procedure is what eventually led him to agreeing with Kromer, and his will to defy her is what drove him through the events of his chapter. Yi Sang's Skill 2 is Envy due to his passive nature and how easily he lets other people dictate his actions. It's especially notable in how after the League fell apart, he would have been willing to do anything Gubo told him at that moment.

Skill 3's Sin Affinity is what I would like to call a Sinner's Core Sin. It's the true main reason behind their actions, and has a much closer and direct tie into their past than the other Sin Affinities. In a way, this is the deepest layer of their psyche.

Gregor's Skill 3 is Sloth as his resignation to his circumstances is what colors much of his past. He learned that resistance is futile early in life, and it shows. Though he didn't want to fight in the war, he felt like he had no choice but to. All of his life, he simply listened to orders without complaint, unable to see a way to change his situation. Rodya's Skill 3 is Wrath as her self-righteousness and defiance is what drove her actions at the deepest level. She first joined the Yurodiviye because she wanted to bring change the state of her neighbourhood, and likewise left them when she no longer agreed with how they did things. Her murder of the pawnbroker was her biggest act of defiance, of taking matters into her own hands and trying to bring change to her reality at all cost. Sinclair's Skill 3 is Envy as much of his actions were dictated by other people. Social pressure was what led to him first breaching the trust of his family, and Kromer's coercion and manipulation is what then led to his family's death. In a way, you could also interpret Sinclair's arc in Canto III as one big act of Envy, as he finally tries to take revenge on Kromer for what she has done. Yi Sang's Skill 3 is Sloth as his apathy to the reality around him is what led to him ignoring the warnings signs of the League falling apart, and the resignation that followed could have resulted in him helping Gubo and the New League out with their horrible plans had there not been an intervention. It's only by the end of Canto IV that he finally manages to break out of this state for long enough to stand up for himself and decide to keep on living.

So, that's the basics of Sin Affinities when it comes to Identities! Now, some of you might be asking, "Hey Lu, what about Sin resources needed for Passives?", and my answer to that is...

Honestly, I don't entirely know! I do think there probably is some reason beyond pure gameplay mechanics... Buuuuut I don't think their importance is as major as the main Sin Affinities of a given Identity, especially since there isn't a single Passive that is activated by a Sin that the given Identity doesn't have any Affinity to.

Sin Affinities in the context of E.G.Os

Alright, so, when it comes to E.G.O, we run into some additional complexities. Unlike Identities, which can usually have their Sins Analysed with minimal additional context, E.G.O Sin Analysis has to be done under a specific angle.

This is because while Identities represent the Sinner as a whole person, E.G.Os represent a specific singular part of that Sinner.

Base E.G.Os usually seem to tie back to a specific event or action or some other thing in that Sinner's past. Likewise, E.G.Os derived from Abnormalities represent the ways that Sinner connects to that Abnormality's own themes.

In a way, the game's worldbuilding even acknowledges the fact that a Sinner can only use the E.G.O of an Abnormality they relate to in some way, as Dante's Notes describe the process of the Sinners using E.G.O as trying to make the Abnormality's emotions and identity their own.

That little tangent aside, there are two main things to analyze sin-wise when it comes to E.G.O - the Sin Affinity, and the Sin Resources necessary to use that E.G.O.

An E.G.O Sin Affinity works similarly to an Identity's Sin Affinities - for a Base E.G.O, it's the main Sin that action manifests as. For an Abno-derived E.G.O, it's the Sin that contextulizes the way the Abno's themes connect to the Sinner in question.

The Sin Resources an E.G.O needs is where things get fun. These are what a Sinner needs to be able to use the E.G.O, both mechanically AND story-wise. The Sins here represent what a Sinner has as their motivation and drive to fully reflect what that E.G.O represents. For Base E.G.Os, it's why they took the actions they did. For Abno E.G.Os, it's why they connect to that Abno's themes and why they're able to relate to it.

Now... There is one more thing about E.G.Os that I don't really talk about.

Sin Resistances.

The reason why I don't talk about them... Is because I have No Fucking Clue how to interpret them. There has to be some importance to them (Hong Lu being weak to Wrath in all of his E.G.O thus far, I am looking at you), I just don't know what it is. In fact, I doubt we even have enough information available to us right now to be able to say for sure.

I don't know how to end these posts dear fucking lord-

So uh. Yeah. That's. Everything that I think is important to mention on the topic of Sin Analysis and how I do it. If I ever change my mind on something or have an epiphany regarding one of the things I currently have no idea about, I'll probably reblog this post with an addendum or something, but until then...

Uh. Yeah. Hope this helps the people who wanna get into analyzing Limbus stuff but don't know where to begin. Or just people who wanna understand the method to my madness a little bit better.

I'm gonna go to sleep now, cause it's 4 AM already and I spent like the whole fucking night writing this post.

Btw much as I love to make fun of twitter and reddit's business decisions, I have 0% trust in tumblr's management to not go a similar route so this is your gentle reminder that you should regularly go to your blog settings to export your blog. That's a fancy way of saying you can download a backup of your blog so if everything goes down you'll still have a backup of your posts & convos.

if you're reading this, go trawl other reblogs to this post.

Like, I'm not gonna say that the X-Men and their various imitators are anything like a perfect allegory, but "it's a bad allegory because super powers really are dangerous" has never held water for me. Like, are we really just gonna uncritically accept the implicit assumption lurking in that argument that bigotry is only wrong to the extent that its targets lack the ability to threaten the status quo? Hand-wringing over whether certain minorities are inherently dangerous is – and, critically, always has been – a smoke-screen for the real conversation about who has the right to possess the capacity for violence, and you can't engage with that conversation if your opening move is to concede that the only legitimate victim is a powerless one.

Ledgerdemain, noun: sleight of hand (what hand), skillful hiding of truth in order to trick people. False Apple: shiny and golden and utterly rotten once the outer layer peels itself to show that rot. So you have an easygoing, sociable guy that is perfectly fine! …except as Lu mentioned, the bug arm is a clever metaphor for PTSD. It's always there. In plain view. But he manages to make people look past it. Just like people look past that he did desert/survive, meaning: free survivor's guilt. Yuri dying when they could facetank everything transposes itself into what is already his deal. Closer to his recent (unprocessed) issues, so easier to invoke/drop, hence zayin. As opposed to AEDD, which probably would require actively focusing on the past + being able to do jack shit to Hermann for it, which is probably not something that's often a surface-level thought.

Corrosion, fluff edition: p sure it's somewhere in the canon that it's Abnormality memeplex overtaking the person? so corrosion would be on par with Personaesque shadow-possession and/or persona overtaking the host (Jung did write about this a bit), suppressing the hidden parts. In that sense, in that all thoughts/emotions that run contrary to the core idea of an abno would be suppressed, and impulses in line of it running wildly.

Lu's Guide to Sin Analysis

Welp, since my brain is too focused on having K Corp Hong Lu go full unga bunga in Mirror Dungeons to write full analyses, I decided I might as well give something else to all the people starving for Limbus Theory content.

So, here we are. A basic guide on how I approach the Sin Analysis portion of my analyses, covering my personal interpretations for each Sin, as well as how to use those when analysing both E.G.Os and Identities.

That way, ya'll can dabble in doing some of this on your own when I'm too busy grinding my way to 400 hours of play time on Limbus to write up full analyses.

Sounds good? Awesome. Under the cut we go, wheeeee!

Sin Interpretations

Let's start with the most important part - the Sins themselves.

I want you to take a moment and think about your own associations with those Sins. Perhaps your immediate thought is to take the words used literally. Maybe you immediately think back to the Biblical ideas of the Seven Deadly Sins. Mayhaps there's some other media you know that also uses Sins in some way, which you subconsciously default to when thinking about them.

Whatever those associations are, I want you to throw them away.

That's right. Whatever is telling you that Lust = Horny, Wrath = Angry, Envy = Jealous, etc, etc? Throw all of those preconcieved notions away.

This is the biggest mistake I see people make when trying to analyse Identities and E.G.O based on their Sins - they assume that those Sins have the same meanings in the context of Limbus as the popular, more common interpretations of them.

And while, sure, some of them can definitely overlap with what one would expect them to be, I think relying on those during analysis instead of trying to understand what the game itself is trying to tell us by using those Sins as symbols is doing its storytelling a massive disservice.

Do I think my personal interpretations of the Sins are a 100% accurate reading? No, of course not. I can't see into the mind of Kim Ji-Hoon or whoever else at Project Moon might have been the mastermind behind deciding what Sins connect to what. I have no way of knowing what exactly they intended here.

However, I do wish to believe that my interpretations not only strive to meet the game's storytelling on its own terms, but also hopefully make further analysis based on those interpretations a bit easier to wrap one's head around.

...God I really need to stop writing massive preambles and just get to the fucking point.

So let's actually get to The Fucking Point. Sin Interpretations, one by one. Let's fucking do it.

Wrath

The flames of revolution burn bright in the face of cold winds.

Wrath is the Sin of self-righteousness and defiance. To act with Wrath is to decide that one deserves better, that things around then should bend to their will, and then take matters into their own hands. It's the Sin of deciding one has the right to change something simply because they don't like the current state of things.

There are many ways one can act because of Wrath. It can show through trying to rebel against authority, to subvert one's fate, to escape one's unfavorable circumstances, or to even reject one's own true nature. To act with Wrath is to stand up for oneself and tell reality "No, I refuse!" loud and clear.

A common misconception of Wrath is the idea that anger is an inherent part of it. While it's true that those feelings often coincide with defiance, they're not required for one's acts to be fueled by Wrath. Some can be Wrathful while being completely calm and collected, as their acts of defiance could be more on the quiet and simmering side.

Likewise, being quick to anger isn't always a sign of Wrath. It's very possible for someone to have a short temper, while also being fully accepting of the reality they live in (Ryoshu, I am looking directly at you), thus lacking Wrath.

Lust

One's base insticts go all the way back to that genetic code.

Lust is the Sin of self-indulgence. It's the Sin of letting one's own desires and whims dictate one's actions. It's also the Sin of seeking personal fulfillment above all else. To act with Lust is to give up one's self-control and let one's instincts and wants guide them.

Unlike what the name and symbol might initially imply, Lust can include many different types of desires, not just the carnal.

Likewise, acts of Lust can be just as varied as one's desires. Satisfying one's most basic of needs, searching for a form of spiritual enlightenment, or even just saying the first thing that comes to mind because one feels like it are just a few examples.

Sloth

A stone will not care for what happens to it, nor the world around it.

Sloth is the Sin of apathy and resignation. Unlike other Sins, which mostly show through one's direct actions, Sloth can also show through inaction.

To act with Sloth is to ignore reality, to let oneself go along with whatever is happening with barely any complaints. As such, Sloth is commonly associated with blind obedience or unwillingness to act out.

Due to its nature as a Sin of resignation, Sloth can be seen as the direct opposite of Wrath, the Sin of defiance. This creates a unique situation where the inclusion of one can drastically shift the context of the other if both are a part of the same Identity or E.G.O.

Gluttony

Plants never stop waging wars, always wanting just a little bit more.

Gluttony is the Sin of hunger, and it's unique from the other Sins in that it equally represents two different ideas of that hunger, which can appear together just as often as they can be completely seperated.

The first type of Gluttony is one of the starving hunger of survival. In this context, to act with Gluttony is to do anything for the sake of scraping by and living to see another day.

The second type of Gluttony is the hunger for more, or in other words: greed. In this context, to act with Gluttony is to do everything for the sake of this idea of "more". To gain more wealth, to find more recognition, to make more progress.

Both of these types of Gluttony are unified in one main point - they are, by definition, endless. The struggle for survival never ends, unless one fails to survive. Likewise, there is no finite "more" that greed is reaching towards, it's a neverending process of one-upmanship.

Gloom

When a wave of emotion rises, many will be swept away in its wake.

Gloom is the Sin of dwelling on feelings. To act with Gloom is to be guided by one's negative emotions, to buckle under stress and let it control one's mind and actions.

While sadness, grief, and depression are the states of mind most commonly associated with Gloom, and are often a part of it, they're not inherent to it. The only "requirement" here is the experience of severe emotional duress, and acting out in direct response to it.

In a way, Gloom is the Sin of losing control over oneself, not dissimilar to Lust. However, the main difference here is the cause of losing that control. Gloom is the loss of self-control due to being overwhelmed by negative experiences, while Lust is the loss of self-control due to seeking out positive experiences.

Pride

Be careful, for that double-edged sword may cut you as well.

Pride is the Sin of ignoring consequences. Acts of Pride are all actions taken because of the belief that their benefits outweigh the cost in some way. While the most common way this can present is through actions that benefit oneself at the cost of others, it's not the only way Pride can manifest.

One can be Prideful when believing the benefit to many outweighs the consequences. Likewise, refusing to acknowledge the harm one brings to themself because their actions benefit them in some other way also counts as Pride.

The idea that Pride is inherently tied to selfishness or self-confidence is another common misconception. In fact, Prideful acts can manifest just as often from a lack of self-confidence or a misguided selflessness. Rather, one could interpret Pride as a form of willful ignorance, in a way.

Envy

Thorns don't go out of their way to harm, they merely react to your touch.

Envy is the Sin of reaction and retribution. It's the idea of doing something because of what someone else has done. By definition, one cannot act with Envy without some form of provocation.

Like is the case with many other Sins, acts of Envy can take many forms, from taking revenge to following orders. The main connecting idea here is letting oneself be influenced by another person, whether it's being coerced, provoked, ordered, or otherwise manipulated.

Out of all of the Sin misconceptions, seeing Envy as inherently tied to jealousy might be the worst one of all. While acts done out of jealousy would likely count as acts of Envy, they are but a miniscule part of the sheer scope that Envy represents.

...

Alright, so you know what each of those Sins means. Now it's time to figure out how to Actually Apply Them.

Sin Affinities in the context of Identities

The main way Sins play a role in a given Sinner's Identity is through their Sin Affinities. Mechanically, these are the Sins attributed to each of their skills, signifying both their type of Sin damage and what Sin resource they generate upon being used.

However, this is Project Moon we're talking about, and these fuckers can't keep their gameplay mechanics seperate from the story to save their lives.

So, this begs the question: what can we learn about a Sinner's given Identity through their Sin Affinities?

Here is the method that I believe works best in my experience:

The Sin affinities of each of an Identity's skills represent a different layer of their psyche and motivations. I'm going to try to show what I mean by using base Identities of the four Sinners who already had their own Canto.

Skill 1's Sin Affinity is the surface level motivation of the Sinner's actions. This is the most obvious and "shallow" reading of them and their actions, and also likely the one the Sinners themselves are most aware of.

Gregor's Skill 1 is Gloom due to him being constatly haunted by his trauma, with much of his cynicism and dark-ish sense of humor being shaped by his war experiences. Rodya's Skill 1 is Gluttony due to her tendency to value material goods and love for food, which are signs of her greed and will to survive respectively. Sinclair's Skill 1 is Pride due to him taking many actions (such as sharing his father's secrets or giving Kromer his basement key) for their immediate benefits, without considering the consequences. Yi Sang's Skill 1 is Gloom due to him falling into deep depression and letting the trauma of the past shape his current actions.

Skill 2's Sin Affinity is a deeper motivation of the Sinner's actions. It's delving deeper into their psyche to see what guides them in less obvious ways. This Sin Affinity can also have noticeably closer ties to the Sinner's background in one way or another.

Gregor's Skill 2 is Gluttony due to him being driven by the will to survive, most notably expressed by him leaving the rest of the veterans to escape the war and try to live after it ended. Rodya's Skill 2 is Pride due to her fully believing in what she does working out in her favor, completely ignoring consequences on the way. Her killing the pawnbroker is the biggest example of an act of Pride, as she fully believed that it would help her neighbourhood despite the consequences that murder would bring. Sinclair's Skill 2 is Wrath due to him not accepting his circumstances. His want to defy his future prosthetics procedure is what eventually led him to agreeing with Kromer, and his will to defy her is what drove him through the events of his chapter. Yi Sang's Skill 2 is Envy due to his passive nature and how easily he lets other people dictate his actions. It's especially notable in how after the League fell apart, he would have been willing to do anything Gubo told him at that moment.

Skill 3's Sin Affinity is what I would like to call a Sinner's Core Sin. It's the true main reason behind their actions, and has a much closer and direct tie into their past than the other Sin Affinities. In a way, this is the deepest layer of their psyche.

Gregor's Skill 3 is Sloth as his resignation to his circumstances is what colors much of his past. He learned that resistance is futile early in life, and it shows. Though he didn't want to fight in the war, he felt like he had no choice but to. All of his life, he simply listened to orders without complaint, unable to see a way to change his situation. Rodya's Skill 3 is Wrath as her self-righteousness and defiance is what drove her actions at the deepest level. She first joined the Yurodiviye because she wanted to bring change the state of her neighbourhood, and likewise left them when she no longer agreed with how they did things. Her murder of the pawnbroker was her biggest act of defiance, of taking matters into her own hands and trying to bring change to her reality at all cost. Sinclair's Skill 3 is Envy as much of his actions were dictated by other people. Social pressure was what led to him first breaching the trust of his family, and Kromer's coercion and manipulation is what then led to his family's death. In a way, you could also interpret Sinclair's arc in Canto III as one big act of Envy, as he finally tries to take revenge on Kromer for what she has done. Yi Sang's Skill 3 is Sloth as his apathy to the reality around him is what led to him ignoring the warnings signs of the League falling apart, and the resignation that followed could have resulted in him helping Gubo and the New League out with their horrible plans had there not been an intervention. It's only by the end of Canto IV that he finally manages to break out of this state for long enough to stand up for himself and decide to keep on living.

So, that's the basics of Sin Affinities when it comes to Identities! Now, some of you might be asking, "Hey Lu, what about Sin resources needed for Passives?", and my answer to that is...

Honestly, I don't entirely know! I do think there probably is some reason beyond pure gameplay mechanics... Buuuuut I don't think their importance is as major as the main Sin Affinities of a given Identity, especially since there isn't a single Passive that is activated by a Sin that the given Identity doesn't have any Affinity to.

Sin Affinities in the context of E.G.Os

Alright, so, when it comes to E.G.O, we run into some additional complexities. Unlike Identities, which can usually have their Sins Analysed with minimal additional context, E.G.O Sin Analysis has to be done under a specific angle.

This is because while Identities represent the Sinner as a whole person, E.G.Os represent a specific singular part of that Sinner.

Base E.G.Os usually seem to tie back to a specific event or action or some other thing in that Sinner's past. Likewise, E.G.Os derived from Abnormalities represent the ways that Sinner connects to that Abnormality's own themes.

In a way, the game's worldbuilding even acknowledges the fact that a Sinner can only use the E.G.O of an Abnormality they relate to in some way, as Dante's Notes describe the process of the Sinners using E.G.O as trying to make the Abnormality's emotions and identity their own.

That little tangent aside, there are two main things to analyze sin-wise when it comes to E.G.O - the Sin Affinity, and the Sin Resources necessary to use that E.G.O.

An E.G.O Sin Affinity works similarly to an Identity's Sin Affinities - for a Base E.G.O, it's the main Sin that action manifests as. For an Abno-derived E.G.O, it's the Sin that contextulizes the way the Abno's themes connect to the Sinner in question.

The Sin Resources an E.G.O needs is where things get fun. These are what a Sinner needs to be able to use the E.G.O, both mechanically AND story-wise. The Sins here represent what a Sinner has as their motivation and drive to fully reflect what that E.G.O represents. For Base E.G.Os, it's why they took the actions they did. For Abno E.G.Os, it's why they connect to that Abno's themes and why they're able to relate to it.

Now... There is one more thing about E.G.Os that I don't really talk about.

Sin Resistances.

The reason why I don't talk about them... Is because I have No Fucking Clue how to interpret them. There has to be some importance to them (Hong Lu being weak to Wrath in all of his E.G.O thus far, I am looking at you), I just don't know what it is. In fact, I doubt we even have enough information available to us right now to be able to say for sure.

I don't know how to end these posts dear fucking lord-

So uh. Yeah. That's. Everything that I think is important to mention on the topic of Sin Analysis and how I do it. If I ever change my mind on something or have an epiphany regarding one of the things I currently have no idea about, I'll probably reblog this post with an addendum or something, but until then...

Uh. Yeah. Hope this helps the people who wanna get into analyzing Limbus stuff but don't know where to begin. Or just people who wanna understand the method to my madness a little bit better.

I'm gonna go to sleep now, cause it's 4 AM already and I spent like the whole fucking night writing this post.

…and just like that, sins make sense. in fact, to the point where we can speculate sin resistances showcase what ideas would throw them off (tvtropes' Armor Piercing Question), ranting at a persona 4 boss-style. In other words, one could think of it in terms "what arguments could be used to talk down a sinner corroding over This Specific Idea". In case of base ego - their core/driving issue. …which would conviniently explain why their EGOs are conspicuously given LobCorp risk levels, and now the base egos are all zayin - too closely tied to the host with all their complexities, as opposed to going all-in on a specific idea.

to check is this out, i'd like to cross-reference it with people who have thought way more about characters than i did.

@lu-is-not-ok Land of Illusion: Gloom dmg down => Gloom on skill. Gloom as cost. More misery would be like pissing into the ocean. Wrath dmg up => from your writeups one gets the impression he's intensely not questioning about whether or not what his family is/was harming him. Upon being presented with list of grievances things done to him, specifically framed as "how is that kind?", i'm expecting some kind of meltdownception as a reaction. Especially in the context of 'not miserable over being disowned anymore, is is actually an improvement' Envy dmg up => one of the most striking bits when being introduced to EGOs is just how in your face the flavor of 'Hong Lu is hiding Issues' is. Thus, anyone noticing/bringing to attention (ie. forcing a reaction) should make the situation spiral out of control. If played out properly - by making the guy too busy venting to do the gloom-sinking-drowning routine on the party

Roseate Desire (shared with Ishmael): Lust dmg down => same as before. Already having fun, rampaging corrosion(?) continues Wrath dmg up => works only if you're right i.e. Pink Shoes corrosion is straight-up overtaking him in a "pleasant toy for others" sense. So to get him to stop, an appeal to indignation over this treatment would work, combined with… Pride dmg up => …appealing to Hong Lu knowing better how should he move, regardless of the consequences to the current puppeteer (wih Ish the angle would be somewhere along the lines of 'don't you have survivor(s) to hunt down?')

Dimension Shredder (shared with Yi Sang): Wrath dmg up, Lust dmg down => lines imply he's… having fun, all things considered? Pride dmg down => opens a rip and just walks into it. This is very safe. Envy dmg down => Wayward Passenger moves around, without accomplishing much. Bringing to attention W Corp's inaction to their plight should bring results.

@delusinalandpassionate La Sangre de Sancho: Wrath dmg up => makes no sense unless you grab that "to escape one's unfavorable circumstances, or to even reject one's own true nature" from the writeup very hard and declare she killed Sancho and may or may not be actively suppressing it. Lust dmg down => as mentioned above, because DonQ is already indulging encouraging to do so won't change behavior. Gloom dmg up => just the 'suppressing misery because HEROICS!!!' bit, again.

Fluid Sac (shared with Faust): if the concept is indulging in one's misery, resist+ are covered. The fish is fishy, so rest depends on one's read of Ichthys' core idea. dmg up => can't continue if she is forced to react (Envy)/abandon current pursuits (Pride)?

Lifetime Stew (shared with Sinclair): what is even the idea of this thing, other than Stone Soup* if it's 'to make the bestest soup ever!!!', to explain how it can require both Lust alone from Don Quixote and Wrath/Lust/Gluttony from Sinclair, then Sloth and Gloom weakness would mirror despondence/just following recipe & frustration over not getting it perfect/not being able to enjoy it? *Terms and Conditions apply Telepole (shared with Faust and Heathcliff) electrodoggo's theme is 'being controlled', yes? As such, it is reacting to external impulses (Envy dmg down). All three play along because they more-or-less agree with them, so to speak (Pride dmg down). Gluttony dmg up here being appeal to stop, because it'll kill them (glut-as-survi), and Sloth dmg up as leveraging exhaustion caused by this behavior

as a sidenote, doggo made no sense until i got to write down '(electrical) impulse = impulse (to act)'

when checking against canto 1~4… Suddenly, One Day: push forward the idea of chopping his arm off permanently (as seeing with other IDs, for extra zing) to settle the spiral of uncontrollable mutations stressing him out, which makes them go faster What is Cast: matter of preventing a repeat from the past by having outside influence (Envy) remind of negative consequences (Gloom) Branch of Knowledge: same as Rodion; Wrath would be aforementioned self-defiance, Pride from calling out how well making dicey decisions worked out last time.

…a lot of base egos have Envy dmg up. sus. i mean, corroded units straight up have these resistances, yeah? If it's not dealing with base EGO corrosion equivalent, alternatively these could be an out to sinners turning into Peccatulums, which would implicitly explain what's up with Invidiae - if the proposed solution works, either the target reacts to getting talked out of it or doesn't and turns.

Lu's Guide to Sin Analysis

Welp, since my brain is too focused on having K Corp Hong Lu go full unga bunga in Mirror Dungeons to write full analyses, I decided I might as well give something else to all the people starving for Limbus Theory content.

So, here we are. A basic guide on how I approach the Sin Analysis portion of my analyses, covering my personal interpretations for each Sin, as well as how to use those when analysing both E.G.Os and Identities.

That way, ya'll can dabble in doing some of this on your own when I'm too busy grinding my way to 400 hours of play time on Limbus to write up full analyses.

Sounds good? Awesome. Under the cut we go, wheeeee!

Sin Interpretations

Let's start with the most important part - the Sins themselves.

I want you to take a moment and think about your own associations with those Sins. Perhaps your immediate thought is to take the words used literally. Maybe you immediately think back to the Biblical ideas of the Seven Deadly Sins. Mayhaps there's some other media you know that also uses Sins in some way, which you subconsciously default to when thinking about them.

Whatever those associations are, I want you to throw them away.

That's right. Whatever is telling you that Lust = Horny, Wrath = Angry, Envy = Jealous, etc, etc? Throw all of those preconcieved notions away.

This is the biggest mistake I see people make when trying to analyse Identities and E.G.O based on their Sins - they assume that those Sins have the same meanings in the context of Limbus as the popular, more common interpretations of them.

And while, sure, some of them can definitely overlap with what one would expect them to be, I think relying on those during analysis instead of trying to understand what the game itself is trying to tell us by using those Sins as symbols is doing its storytelling a massive disservice.

Do I think my personal interpretations of the Sins are a 100% accurate reading? No, of course not. I can't see into the mind of Kim Ji-Hoon or whoever else at Project Moon might have been the mastermind behind deciding what Sins connect to what. I have no way of knowing what exactly they intended here.

However, I do wish to believe that my interpretations not only strive to meet the game's storytelling on its own terms, but also hopefully make further analysis based on those interpretations a bit easier to wrap one's head around.

...God I really need to stop writing massive preambles and just get to the fucking point.

So let's actually get to The Fucking Point. Sin Interpretations, one by one. Let's fucking do it.

Wrath

The flames of revolution burn bright in the face of cold winds.

Wrath is the Sin of self-righteousness and defiance. To act with Wrath is to decide that one deserves better, that things around then should bend to their will, and then take matters into their own hands. It's the Sin of deciding one has the right to change something simply because they don't like the current state of things.

There are many ways one can act because of Wrath. It can show through trying to rebel against authority, to subvert one's fate, to escape one's unfavorable circumstances, or to even reject one's own true nature. To act with Wrath is to stand up for oneself and tell reality "No, I refuse!" loud and clear.

A common misconception of Wrath is the idea that anger is an inherent part of it. While it's true that those feelings often coincide with defiance, they're not required for one's acts to be fueled by Wrath. Some can be Wrathful while being completely calm and collected, as their acts of defiance could be more on the quiet and simmering side.

Likewise, being quick to anger isn't always a sign of Wrath. It's very possible for someone to have a short temper, while also being fully accepting of the reality they live in (Ryoshu, I am looking directly at you), thus lacking Wrath.

Lust

One's base insticts go all the way back to that genetic code.

Lust is the Sin of self-indulgence. It's the Sin of letting one's own desires and whims dictate one's actions. It's also the Sin of seeking personal fulfillment above all else. To act with Lust is to give up one's self-control and let one's instincts and wants guide them.

Unlike what the name and symbol might initially imply, Lust can include many different types of desires, not just the carnal.

Likewise, acts of Lust can be just as varied as one's desires. Satisfying one's most basic of needs, searching for a form of spiritual enlightenment, or even just saying the first thing that comes to mind because one feels like it are just a few examples.

Sloth

A stone will not care for what happens to it, nor the world around it.

Sloth is the Sin of apathy and resignation. Unlike other Sins, which mostly show through one's direct actions, Sloth can also show through inaction.

To act with Sloth is to ignore reality, to let oneself go along with whatever is happening with barely any complaints. As such, Sloth is commonly associated with blind obedience or unwillingness to act out.

Due to its nature as a Sin of resignation, Sloth can be seen as the direct opposite of Wrath, the Sin of defiance. This creates a unique situation where the inclusion of one can drastically shift the context of the other if both are a part of the same Identity or E.G.O.

Gluttony

Plants never stop waging wars, always wanting just a little bit more.

Gluttony is the Sin of hunger, and it's unique from the other Sins in that it equally represents two different ideas of that hunger, which can appear together just as often as they can be completely seperated.

The first type of Gluttony is one of the starving hunger of survival. In this context, to act with Gluttony is to do anything for the sake of scraping by and living to see another day.

The second type of Gluttony is the hunger for more, or in other words: greed. In this context, to act with Gluttony is to do everything for the sake of this idea of "more". To gain more wealth, to find more recognition, to make more progress.

Both of these types of Gluttony are unified in one main point - they are, by definition, endless. The struggle for survival never ends, unless one fails to survive. Likewise, there is no finite "more" that greed is reaching towards, it's a neverending process of one-upmanship.

Gloom

When a wave of emotion rises, many will be swept away in its wake.

Gloom is the Sin of dwelling on feelings. To act with Gloom is to be guided by one's negative emotions, to buckle under stress and let it control one's mind and actions.

While sadness, grief, and depression are the states of mind most commonly associated with Gloom, and are often a part of it, they're not inherent to it. The only "requirement" here is the experience of severe emotional duress, and acting out in direct response to it.

In a way, Gloom is the Sin of losing control over oneself, not dissimilar to Lust. However, the main difference here is the cause of losing that control. Gloom is the loss of self-control due to being overwhelmed by negative experiences, while Lust is the loss of self-control due to seeking out positive experiences.

Pride

Be careful, for that double-edged sword may cut you as well.

Pride is the Sin of ignoring consequences. Acts of Pride are all actions taken because of the belief that their benefits outweigh the cost in some way. While the most common way this can present is through actions that benefit oneself at the cost of others, it's not the only way Pride can manifest.

One can be Prideful when believing the benefit to many outweighs the consequences. Likewise, refusing to acknowledge the harm one brings to themself because their actions benefit them in some other way also counts as Pride.

The idea that Pride is inherently tied to selfishness or self-confidence is another common misconception. In fact, Prideful acts can manifest just as often from a lack of self-confidence or a misguided selflessness. Rather, one could interpret Pride as a form of willful ignorance, in a way.

Envy

Thorns don't go out of their way to harm, they merely react to your touch.

Envy is the Sin of reaction and retribution. It's the idea of doing something because of what someone else has done. By definition, one cannot act with Envy without some form of provocation.

Like is the case with many other Sins, acts of Envy can take many forms, from taking revenge to following orders. The main connecting idea here is letting oneself be influenced by another person, whether it's being coerced, provoked, ordered, or otherwise manipulated.

Out of all of the Sin misconceptions, seeing Envy as inherently tied to jealousy might be the worst one of all. While acts done out of jealousy would likely count as acts of Envy, they are but a miniscule part of the sheer scope that Envy represents.

...

Alright, so you know what each of those Sins means. Now it's time to figure out how to Actually Apply Them.

Sin Affinities in the context of Identities

The main way Sins play a role in a given Sinner's Identity is through their Sin Affinities. Mechanically, these are the Sins attributed to each of their skills, signifying both their type of Sin damage and what Sin resource they generate upon being used.

However, this is Project Moon we're talking about, and these fuckers can't keep their gameplay mechanics seperate from the story to save their lives.

So, this begs the question: what can we learn about a Sinner's given Identity through their Sin Affinities?

Here is the method that I believe works best in my experience:

The Sin affinities of each of an Identity's skills represent a different layer of their psyche and motivations. I'm going to try to show what I mean by using base Identities of the four Sinners who already had their own Canto.

Skill 1's Sin Affinity is the surface level motivation of the Sinner's actions. This is the most obvious and "shallow" reading of them and their actions, and also likely the one the Sinners themselves are most aware of.

Gregor's Skill 1 is Gloom due to him being constatly haunted by his trauma, with much of his cynicism and dark-ish sense of humor being shaped by his war experiences. Rodya's Skill 1 is Gluttony due to her tendency to value material goods and love for food, which are signs of her greed and will to survive respectively. Sinclair's Skill 1 is Pride due to him taking many actions (such as sharing his father's secrets or giving Kromer his basement key) for their immediate benefits, without considering the consequences. Yi Sang's Skill 1 is Gloom due to him falling into deep depression and letting the trauma of the past shape his current actions.

Skill 2's Sin Affinity is a deeper motivation of the Sinner's actions. It's delving deeper into their psyche to see what guides them in less obvious ways. This Sin Affinity can also have noticeably closer ties to the Sinner's background in one way or another.

Gregor's Skill 2 is Gluttony due to him being driven by the will to survive, most notably expressed by him leaving the rest of the veterans to escape the war and try to live after it ended. Rodya's Skill 2 is Pride due to her fully believing in what she does working out in her favor, completely ignoring consequences on the way. Her killing the pawnbroker is the biggest example of an act of Pride, as she fully believed that it would help her neighbourhood despite the consequences that murder would bring. Sinclair's Skill 2 is Wrath due to him not accepting his circumstances. His want to defy his future prosthetics procedure is what eventually led him to agreeing with Kromer, and his will to defy her is what drove him through the events of his chapter. Yi Sang's Skill 2 is Envy due to his passive nature and how easily he lets other people dictate his actions. It's especially notable in how after the League fell apart, he would have been willing to do anything Gubo told him at that moment.

Skill 3's Sin Affinity is what I would like to call a Sinner's Core Sin. It's the true main reason behind their actions, and has a much closer and direct tie into their past than the other Sin Affinities. In a way, this is the deepest layer of their psyche.

Gregor's Skill 3 is Sloth as his resignation to his circumstances is what colors much of his past. He learned that resistance is futile early in life, and it shows. Though he didn't want to fight in the war, he felt like he had no choice but to. All of his life, he simply listened to orders without complaint, unable to see a way to change his situation. Rodya's Skill 3 is Wrath as her self-righteousness and defiance is what drove her actions at the deepest level. She first joined the Yurodiviye because she wanted to bring change the state of her neighbourhood, and likewise left them when she no longer agreed with how they did things. Her murder of the pawnbroker was her biggest act of defiance, of taking matters into her own hands and trying to bring change to her reality at all cost. Sinclair's Skill 3 is Envy as much of his actions were dictated by other people. Social pressure was what led to him first breaching the trust of his family, and Kromer's coercion and manipulation is what then led to his family's death. In a way, you could also interpret Sinclair's arc in Canto III as one big act of Envy, as he finally tries to take revenge on Kromer for what she has done. Yi Sang's Skill 3 is Sloth as his apathy to the reality around him is what led to him ignoring the warnings signs of the League falling apart, and the resignation that followed could have resulted in him helping Gubo and the New League out with their horrible plans had there not been an intervention. It's only by the end of Canto IV that he finally manages to break out of this state for long enough to stand up for himself and decide to keep on living.

So, that's the basics of Sin Affinities when it comes to Identities! Now, some of you might be asking, "Hey Lu, what about Sin resources needed for Passives?", and my answer to that is...

Honestly, I don't entirely know! I do think there probably is some reason beyond pure gameplay mechanics... Buuuuut I don't think their importance is as major as the main Sin Affinities of a given Identity, especially since there isn't a single Passive that is activated by a Sin that the given Identity doesn't have any Affinity to.

Sin Affinities in the context of E.G.Os

Alright, so, when it comes to E.G.O, we run into some additional complexities. Unlike Identities, which can usually have their Sins Analysed with minimal additional context, E.G.O Sin Analysis has to be done under a specific angle.

This is because while Identities represent the Sinner as a whole person, E.G.Os represent a specific singular part of that Sinner.

Base E.G.Os usually seem to tie back to a specific event or action or some other thing in that Sinner's past. Likewise, E.G.Os derived from Abnormalities represent the ways that Sinner connects to that Abnormality's own themes.

In a way, the game's worldbuilding even acknowledges the fact that a Sinner can only use the E.G.O of an Abnormality they relate to in some way, as Dante's Notes describe the process of the Sinners using E.G.O as trying to make the Abnormality's emotions and identity their own.

That little tangent aside, there are two main things to analyze sin-wise when it comes to E.G.O - the Sin Affinity, and the Sin Resources necessary to use that E.G.O.

An E.G.O Sin Affinity works similarly to an Identity's Sin Affinities - for a Base E.G.O, it's the main Sin that action manifests as. For an Abno-derived E.G.O, it's the Sin that contextulizes the way the Abno's themes connect to the Sinner in question.

The Sin Resources an E.G.O needs is where things get fun. These are what a Sinner needs to be able to use the E.G.O, both mechanically AND story-wise. The Sins here represent what a Sinner has as their motivation and drive to fully reflect what that E.G.O represents. For Base E.G.Os, it's why they took the actions they did. For Abno E.G.Os, it's why they connect to that Abno's themes and why they're able to relate to it.

Now... There is one more thing about E.G.Os that I don't really talk about.

Sin Resistances.

The reason why I don't talk about them... Is because I have No Fucking Clue how to interpret them. There has to be some importance to them (Hong Lu being weak to Wrath in all of his E.G.O thus far, I am looking at you), I just don't know what it is. In fact, I doubt we even have enough information available to us right now to be able to say for sure.

I don't know how to end these posts dear fucking lord-

So uh. Yeah. That's. Everything that I think is important to mention on the topic of Sin Analysis and how I do it. If I ever change my mind on something or have an epiphany regarding one of the things I currently have no idea about, I'll probably reblog this post with an addendum or something, but until then...

Uh. Yeah. Hope this helps the people who wanna get into analyzing Limbus stuff but don't know where to begin. Or just people who wanna understand the method to my madness a little bit better.

I'm gonna go to sleep now, cause it's 4 AM already and I spent like the whole fucking night writing this post.

Would it make sense for clapper to have antenatal/postpartum depression vibe? not bulimia, as the brain+spinal cord in the sack implies a fetus, along with no overtures to the idea of eating (nary a gluttony in sight, canto IV says hi). There is A LOT of mechanical weight/attention to the sack. Even the egg form is all sac, basically. Like, why go out of your way to modify wrath/gloom resistances and tie them to something breakable? (not complaining, spicy design.) Wiki goes into extensive detail about it's skill rotations, and without major interruption it's roughly: Blood Sac counter goes 1->3, then Blood Cannon, then it moves to Fluid Sac. Without blood, it heals.

Hence, despair/madness as a byproduct of creating something -> JUSTICE!! for Don, new knowledge for Faust?

Do you do psychoanalyzing on other characters besides Yi Sang and Hong Lu? If so I’d like to hear you talk about Don and Faust, and why you think they share 2 egos (Telepole and Fluid Sac)

I mean! I can certainly try! Hong Lu and Yi Sang are just. I guess my field of expertise??? Since I care the most about those two??? But I can certainly try to analyze some other characters, though it might not be able to be as specific and detailed as I am when analyzing my favorites. Hope you understand!

Now then. Let's do this. Under cut we go as usual.

Fluid Sac

Let's start with the one we know less about, aka Headless Ichthys. In fact, we know... very, very little about Headless Ichthys.

Due to Meursault being the one to write the logs about this abnormality, we only get information on its physical characteristics, such as it having lost its head, and that there's something inside its sack that is said to bear resemblence to either a flower or a human nervous system.

That's it. That's all the definitive info we have on this abnormality. We can assume that it has Some religious significance due to its name, Ichthys, being the name of a religious fish symbol, but that doesn't help too much.

There is something interesting I want to note here, and that's the thing inside its sack. The fact that it's unclear whether it resembles a flower or a human nervous system is interesting... Because that mimics what Lunacy looks like. While Lunacy is described as rose-shaped by its Inventory description, the full Lunacy icon can also be interpreted as a brain on a brainstem.

I suppose, if you wanted to dig deep enough, the implications of it containing a symbol akin to Lunacy and having lost its head could could be interpreted as the abnormality being a symbol of a descent into madness. Which, honestly, that's the best I got from what little we have.

Because of just how little lore we have on the Headless Ichthys, unfortunately I can't go too in depth on Don and Faust with it in mind... But I'll still try.

Fluid Sac is a Gloom E.G.O, and though Gloom is one of those Sins I'm not entirely sure of, it does seem to represent taking actions due to one's built up negative emotions.

The main base E.G.O examples we have are Snagharpoon, which has Ishmael follow her compulsion to keep searching for "That bastard", and Land of Illusion, which implies that Hong Lu retreats from reality into his own dream world under heavy emotional stress.

As such, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Fluid Sac signifies something that caused horrible emotional stress to both Don and Faust, which would then kickstart their descent into madness. In more specific terms, this would be heroic delusions for Don and single-minded mad scientist-esque pursuit of knowledge for Faust.

As a brief sidenote, this would align quite well with the visual design differences between the two. Though the E.G.O outfits they wear are extremely similar, all the way down to both of them having green tints in their hair and fin decorations in the exact same spots, there are two notable differences.

One - the shape of the weapon. Don's weapon is shaped like a miniature Headless Ichthys clutching onto a perfectly round sack-orb. It looks almost more like a toy rather than a weapon. Faust's weapon is not only shaped almost perfectly like Headless Ichthys's sack, it also seems to have the same properties, as it bursts during Faust's Awakening attack animation.

Two - the article of clothing that mimics the Ichthys's hand-flippers. For Don, it's a cape-like piece of clothing that looks more like something you'd see on a kid's hero costume. For Faust, it's seemingly anatomically-correct recreations of the flippers that are attached to her jacket.

Both of those I think reinforce the idea of Don and Faust indulging in their methods of madness. Child-like obsession with heroism for Don (using toys and costumes), and endless scientific pursuits for Faust (only someone studying the abnormality closely could replicate its anatomy in this much detail).

It's a bit hard to tell anything from their dialogue lines as they are somewhat generic (my unrelated theory on that is that Fluid Sac is one of the first E.G.Os designed, based on its dialogue lines not having much to do with its abnormality, and due to its attack animations being uncharacteristically sparse in actual frame-to-frame animation), but they do seem to work as good reflections of Don and Faust in general.

Their Awakening lines seem to reflect their general attitudes, with Don's being jovial yet quick to resort to violence, and Faust's being self-assured and seemingly trying to predict all outcomes.

Their Corroded lines on the other hand could be a reflection of their attitudes after their descent into madness began. Don's single-minded "...Crush them." could be a reflection of how she views morality as black and white, and thus believes all that she considers 'villains' should be crushed by her. Likewise, Faust's line here implies that she's willing to do anything, even leave herself completely empty by 'disgorging everything', if it means she reaches what she's looking for.

Looking at the Sin Resources, both Faust and Don require Gloom and Lust to use Fluid Sac, and while Don also uses Pride, Faust uses Envy instead.

I already mentioned what I think Gloom means for Fluid Sac, and I think it being a requirement further reinforces it here. Both Don and Faust need to be acting under severe emotional stress to start their descent into madness.

Lust as a sin seems to represent acting according to one's desires, or more specifically, indulging in them. It also tends to have slight spiritual connotations in Limbus, making it the Sin of acting for the sake of some form of personal fulfillment as well.

Using it for Fluid Sac would make sense with the descent into madness interpretation. For both Don and Faust, their forms of madness are them overindulging in something they find personally fulfilling - heroism for Don, science for Faust.

Don's unique Sin requirement here is Pride. I already went into detail on what Pride as a Sin means in Limbus in the Dimension Shredder post, but to recap, Pride represents actions taken for their personal benefits, while ignoring their negative consequences on either other people or oneself.

This very much represents Don's madness quite well. Her heroic acts are rooted in what she personally perceives as doing good, and she completely ignores the collateral damage that she may cause in the process. Her willful ignorance of the harm she inflicts on others is one of the main things that led her to her personal form of madness.

Faust's unique Sin requirement here is Envy. Now, I won't go into detail on Envy just yet, as it's better saved for Telepole, but in very basic summary, it represents actions done in reaction to other people and their actions.

While there is still much we don't know about Faust, the inclusion of Envy as a requirement for her Fluid Sac implies that the root of her madness actually comes from someone else. There's not enough info for us to speculate on more details... but something tells me this might have to do with a certain Faustian Bargain, if you catch my drift.

So, that's Fluid Sac! For something with so little to dissect, it ended up leading to quite a good bit of analysis anyway! Call me Game Theory cause I'm about to put MatPat out of a job.

Telepole

Alright, let's once again start with the abnormality itself - Alleyway Watchdog.

The funny thing is that the Watchdog has the opposite problem to the Ichthys, as while the fish had very little lore, the Watchdog has a decent amount, but it's written by Yi Sang and as such it's hard to tell how much of its logs are facts, and how much is Yi Sang being Yi Sang and projecting onto the dog.

If there is one thing that is a definitive fact, it's that lack of being able to control oneself and being unable to tell who is controlling who is a recurring theme for this abnormality. The fact that it's unclear if the dog is in control of its own actions calls back to it, and the further muddling of what actually is in control of it only further adds to that theme.

It's unclear if the charred person on its back is controlling the dog, or if it's simply along for the ride unable to do anything to stop it, or if it is also under the control of something else. It's unclear if electricity is what is directly controlling the dog, or if it's something Yi Sang is projecting onto it due to his own experiences.

With that in mind, let's look at the three Sinners who have this E.G.O - Don, Faust, and Heathcliff. Now, I won't be looking at Heathcliff's case too closely, since this is meant to focus on Don and Faust, but I will be bringing him up when talking about Telepole on a general level, so that we have the biggest sample size possible.

In this case, having the Telepole E.G.O would imply these three have some issues when it comes to control, whether it's they themselves lacked control in their life, or whether it's their own degree of perceived control isn't as it seems. Since neither of those three have had their Cantos released yet, it's impossible for me to tell what exactly is going on here, but this is something to keep in mind.

Now, let's talk about Envy, as that's the Sin damage that all of the Telepoles deal. Envy appears to represent actions one takes as a reaction to what others do. This can take any form, whether it's revenge or following orders or being provoked or anything really. What's important here is that the action taken is a Direct Response to someone else.

The only base E.G.O that deals Envy damage is Heathcliff's Bodysack, which represents his impulsive and likely violent reaction to whatever Cathy did to him.

This all fits very nicely with the nature of Alleyway Watchdog, and Telepole E.G.O as a whole. The Watchdog's actions are all reactions to something else controlling it. Likewise, those using the Telepole E.G.O have their actions be influenced or even controlled by someone else.

Their Awakening lines (since there's nothing to analyze when it comes to their Corroded howls I don't think) all reflect a certain part of their personality, potentially implying that something about that is due to the influence of someone else.

Heathcliff's line expresses his impulsively violent tendencies, Don's ties back to her blind heroism, and Faust's has a clinical, detached feel to it.

As for Sin Resources, both Faust and Heathcliff use Envy, Wrath, and Lust, while Don exchanges Lust for Gloom.

Envy as a Sin Resource here once again ties back to the themes of control, implying that for all three, the actions they take are not entirely Just their own. Whether it's provokation or suggestion or something else, for all three of them, their actions are being encouraged, if not directly controlled, by someone else entirely.

Wrath is... hard to analyze. Partially because on first glance it seems to act as a shorthand for fire damage, and partially because no base E.G.O deals Wrath damage. My best guess based on other E.G.Os is that Wrath represents actions done out of self-righteousness. It's the "I deserve to do this, I DARE to do this." of Sins, in my opinion.

It's not necessarily tied to literal anger, as its name might imply, but rather a deeper reason that usually leads to anger - that being the idea that something should or shouldn't happen simply because you wish it so. After all, the most common reason for anger is for something to not go your way. Think children throwing tantrums over their toy being taken away, or a gamer smashing their keyboard over getting outplayed.

With all that being said, Wrath being used for Telepole could have several meanings. It could represent defiance, the idea that the Sinners act out because they believe they deserve better than the person trying to control them. It could also represent temptation, falling under someone else's control or provokation due to believing that they deserve something they don't have or to do something they can't without falling for it.

Now onto the more unique Sin resource requirements. Faust and Heathcliff both require Lust, a Sin representing indulging one's desires and seeking personal fulfillment. This would fit both Heathcliff and Faust, as their Telepoles seem to allude to the things they are already impulsive about - mindless violence for Heathcliff, and pursuit of knowledge for Faust. The actions they are being controlled or provoked to do are things they already wish to indulge in. Perhaps in their case, they are specifically being tempted into doing something, rather than being directly forced.

This however, is different for Don. Don's Telepole requires Gloom, which is a Sin representing actions done out of succumbing to negative emotions. This paints the actions she's controlled or provoked into comitting in a different light. Unlike Heathcliff or Faust, she isn't being tempted by personal fulfillment. No, in her case it's an expression of emotional stress. Perhaps in her case the control is much more forceful, causing her to act out, or perhaps her actions are a reaction to something bad happening to someone she knows. Either way, it's quite intriguing to note.

Unlike my Fluid Sac analysis, which I could get a little bit more detailed on thanks to touching on a facet of Don and Faust's personalities that are clearly evident, Telepole seems to more so reference their pasts, something that as of right now we simply have no access to.

I expect reaching Heathcliff's Canto will help a ton in this specific case, as it will help analyze the rest of the Telepoles thanks to being able to compare what it seems to reference in his revealed past to potentially similar events in both Don and Faust's pasts.

Anyway reblog to make sure all the investors know that, according to u/spez AKA Steve Huffman, the CEO of the fucking company, Reddit is, and I quote, "not profitable." Their IPO is supposedly planned for later this year. Have fun with that, Steve!

Fukuchi's page is likely to be a fake. Keeping a page unused runs the risk of someone retconning what was already written on it, especially since they would see the exact phrasing used. But is the page does have some empty space, Fukuchi would like to keep it on his person as an assurance no ratly concerns are solved with it. So for the sake of good PR you give out a replica - when Fuku decided to use it, it would be either to do finishing touches (at which point it would happen to late to properly react to it's fakeness), or to cover a major fuckup (at which point, it's fakeness is the final nail in the coffin). If he suspects it's a fake, testing it out on something smol would risk eating up squares/space on the real page, but acknowledging the possibility prevents using it to it's full extent (as to hedge one's bets).

eXCUSE YOU regarding YGO:

…and unless someone dumps the data to an unofficial DB you better have access to judge forums. Shoutout to my boi Prohibition - "cannot be used" requires 12 A4 pages of rulings handling every possible way of trying to get that card onto the field. And some interactions can be only explained by knowing rulings of other cards that have the same (non-kayworded) effect

AKSHUALLY all percieved incongruities are all explained on the official site! That is kept up-to-date! And it depends on placement of a semicolon, not a word! we have Problem-Solving Card Text Now!! So seven or so lines of text on a card are orderly now! Old cards are reprinted with it! Modern cards are interpreted like code!

[Citation needed], but official rule patches can and will be postponed until enough money is made from outdated rules making new cards OP AF (Sangan triggering on detach early into XYZ era)

Memes about collectible card games tend to treat Magic: The Gathering and Yu-Gu-Oh! as basically interchangeable, but the truth is that each of them is fucked up in completely different ways. In brief:

Magic: The Gathering –

Official rulebook that's about nine hundred pages long

Timing and priority framework with roughly a billion different steps and sub-phases that tries to account for every edge case and technicality like a video game developer trying to stop speedrunners from clipping out of bounds

Authoritative card text resides in a massive centralised database which receives constant updates and errata, such that what's officially printed on a card may bear no particular resemblance to what's physically printed on it

So densely keyworded that a single symbol in a card's text may expand to several paragraphs of rules

Yi-Gi-Oh! TCG –

Judges' rulings in major tournaments create binding precedent which is not subsequently incorporated into the rules, creating situations where fully understanding what a card does may require a knowledge of its complete history of use in tournament play

Multiple mutually incompatible priority, timing and targeting frameworks, such that which framework is used may vary not only from card to card, but among different effects of the same card, determined by differences as small as the placement of one word

Legacy cards may receive permission to resolve their effects according to what the rules were at the time of their printing

See the difference?

TIL: the phrase "who watches the watchmen" originates from 2nd century AD.

You ain't solving it today.

That said, it is that time again when i start pontificating on how to make the internet P2P. Somehow. For resilience.

A lot of folks are responding to the whole Reddit situation by calling for the return of decentralised forums, and I think it's important to remember that, contrary to certain popular narratives, the reason early 2000s forum culture has fallen by the wayside is not because people are Just Lazy. Certainly, ease of use is part of it, but a much larger part of it is how vulnerable self-hosted forums are.

Basically, the problem is that even the largest and most carefully managed self-hosted forums can be rendered unusable more or less indefinitely by a single sufficiently determined hostile actor. This can take the form of both attacks on the forum's social infrastructure (i.e., via sock-puppet accounts, botting, organised "raids", etc.) and attacks on its technical infrastructure (i.e., via hacking, DDoS, etc.). In either case, a self-hosted forum has effectively no defence, and the majority of decentralised forum communities survive only by virtue of their relative obscurity; once a self-hosted forum manages to attract the attention of That One Guy who's willing to devote his life to shitting the place up over some microscopic slight, it's effectively game over.

Right now, there are essentially only two mitigation strategies:

Gathering huge numbers of communities under a single, massively centralised technical infrastructure that's simply too large and robust for any one hostile actor to bring down; and

Hardening the community's social infrastructure either by going private and invite only (i.e., the Discord approach), or by making use of a vast centralised pool of volunteer labour to aggressively enforce community standards (i.e., the Reddit approach).

To be clear, these are not intractable problems; other solutions may well exist. However, any proposed plan for bringing decentralised public forums back needs to address them; if you're going in operating under the assumption that forums have become marginalised simply because corporations are evil and people are lazy, you're just setting yourself up to learn the hard way why self-hosted forums no longer seem to be capable of growing beyond a certain point.

Very Brief Guide to [tumblr], for Reddit refugees

Shit You Must Do Right Fucking Now:

Change your profile picture, blog header, and title to something other than the defaults. Do it right now. You will be mistaken for a bot otherwise, and blocked.

Go into Settings -> Dashboard, scroll down to Preferences, and turn off the options in the picture. This will get rid of most of the algorithmic stuff.

Turn off Tumblr Live. You have to snooze it once every 7 days for some stupid reason. It's hosted through another company and will steal your data if you use it.

Go to your blog settings (under the little person menu) and turn off these two settings:

Turn off infinite scroll (lags the site) and turn on timestamps on posts, in the same menu as Preferences.

Basic Features of the Site:

Reblogs drive the entire site. If you'd upvote something on Reddit, you'd reblog it on Tumblr. You can add text, images, or tags to a reblog, but you're not required to.

The dashboard is the equivalent to your Reddit feed, and contains the posts of all the people you follow, with the newest at the top

You can send an ask to someone, and it'll appear in their askbox for them to answer. You can receive them too, or turn off the settings if you don't want.

Tags aren't actually used for finding stuff (search function is dogshit), but are more for categorizing. People also talk in tags. Because Tumblr is weird, you can't use quotation marks (") or commas in them without fucking it up

You can filter both tags and phrases under Account Settings; doing this will put a filter over a post that contains them, which you'll have to click through to see the post itself. Useful for avoiding hate speech or blocking out annoying stuff

You can make polls in posts. Here's one now.

Likes are useless. They literally do fuck-all except send a notification to the OP.

Stuff Tumblr Does That Other Sites Don't:

Very old posts (I'm talking from like 2012) often circulate on this site. There's no such thing as a post being "too old" to reblog

Blocking is highly encouraged; you can block someone for any reason. Even for just being annoying.

If you and someone else are following each other, you are mutuals. Mutuals are fucking awesome and are treasured like friends. Mutuals are a thing on other sites but Tumblr treats em differently.

You can screenshot someone's tags if you like them and add them to a reblog. This is called "peer review"

Sometimes someone will find a blog and go through it and like/reblog a bunch of posts. This is totally fine and not "creepy" like it is seen as on other sites.

Tumblr jokes often rely on Continuing The Bit and a "yes, and?" attitude. Goncharov is probably the best example of this.

We are fucking infested with bots. They will either have totally blank profiles or be filled with porn. Block and report on sight.

Censorship is pretty lax here. I can say "I want to brutally stab Elon Musk to death and watch him bleed out in front of a crowd" and nobody gives a shit.

General Etiquette:

Don't try to do epic clapbacks here, you'll probably just get laughed at or blocked. If someone is bugging you or spouting bigoted bullshit, block them.

Reblog art!!! Artists often struggle to gain traction on here; reblogging will give them a boost.

Not every reblog needs a comment or tag in it

You can go all out with tagging your stuff to organize it, or you can just leave it all blank. Someone might ask "hey, can you tag these posts as [x]?" and you can decide if you want to do that or not. It's generally polite to oblige, but "no" is still reasonable.

Avoid discourse like the plague. Filter it, block people who start it, scroll past it when you see it. Just don't get involved in it. Ever.

Don't put fandom tags or jokes on someone's posts about serious matters or personal shit

You're responsible for curating your own dashboard; if you complain about constantly seeing stuff you don't like, that's probably on you. Don't be afraid to unfollow.

Follower count doesn't matter much here and you don't have to make yours known if you don't want to.

Reblog, don't repost. Reblogging keeps the credit and doesn't "steal" engagement like Twitter retweets.

If someone likes something a LOT, they might reblog it like 30 times in a row. This is normal

Having a post blow up is actually kinda a bad thing, since it floods your notifications. There's a sort of in-joke about how having a big post is awful and people jokingly try to stop their own posts from blowing up, often in vain.

Tips:

Get XKit Rewritten if you're on desktop, it's a really helpful extension

In the little drop-down menu next to the 'Post now' button you can either save a draft, schedule a post, or add it to your queue. The queue lets you post things in order at a certain interval, which you can change. It's good for spreading stuff out over time.

You can use Shift+R to quickly reblog stuff and Shift+Q to queue!

Filter your notifications under Activity - you can also see some neat graphs

Find each other! If you want your old Reddit communities to stick together, seek out other refugees and follow them.

Have fun on [tumblr], everyone!

not what you hoped for OP but it made me realise having a PoV switch right now would be 200% psych and could happen. As in: 'in the narrow room' subpart ends, as we hop to elsewhere and do plot there (Lucy team? Kenji & Tecchou? Mori movement? Atsushi getting to Fukuchi & co, even tho i keep making that call and it keeps proving wrong?) and another subpart, then in 3rd subpart resolve Meursault decisively. Thanks, i hate it.

re: topic (but still not quite): it's been grinding my gears that noone is calling this, but: regardless of DoA resolution, the optics/situation for ability users is terrible. Globally. For the average person this is a broken masquerade scenario - vampires EVERYWHERE in a way that cannot be covered up or handwaved away. If they get to know the details, it would be caused by an ability user (1) being wielded by another ability user (2) using an anomalous object created by another ability user (3!!!). Given that previously ability users weren't public knowledge, populace's 1st contact would be of "they are an existential threat". This makes them convinient scapegoats for both the actual chaos and other assorted problems, real or imagined. At this point 'removing nations'(yes i know it's a coverup, but let's be real: if it worked you could bootstrap any objective with it.) would be merely an assurance that an aggregate database of ability users would be created - which with sufficently bad PR is a very scary proposition, indeed.

as a sidenote, i've once thought myself into an interesting spot: let's take the "What is the opposite of crime?" bit from No Longer Human seriously for a moment; a 'crime' is whatever either law or society deems undesirable action. Because society is made out of smaller societies, and each will have norms that differ slightly (or even conflict with the law/norms of other societies), any given action could be declared a 'crime' by any of the above. Therefore, crime = action. Therefore, the opposite to crime would be inaction. Every living being acts (commits actions?) by the virtue of being alive (breathing, eating, sleeping). Therefore, only inanimate objects do not commit crimes. Now that we have logic'd ourselves to "The sin crime is breathing", the question remains: Do corpses count on the grounds of being alive at some point? Within these parameters, it's actually another question: Are crimes forgivable? Since multiple things can all be called 'crime', despite different severity, the answer would be a binary yes/no.

At which point, the thread splits into two:

1) From a character backstory perspective: assuming he learnt of his ability by killing family memeber(s) accidentally, who exactly could give him forgiveness for it? assuming he does not regret a kill (both in the sense of "can't logic your way out of lack of fucks to give, chief" and "doesn't go into hysterics as seen in other people"), dogma would not give him forgiveness either. Therefore, the answer is: no.

2) From what i vaguely remember of C&P, the entire thing is a setup to do a redemption arc. For a redemption to happen (as opposed to what TvT poetically calls Heel-Face Door Slam), there has to be an underlying assumption - on both the repenter's and the judge's ends - that a crime can be forgiven, with enough work. For Dostoyevsky - you know, the terrorist? - to line up with both C&P and Dostoyevsky - you know, the writer? - or rather, what hazy picture i have of his body of work. For a change to happen, the implicit assumption has to, as well. Therefore, the answer is: no. (as of right now, circa ch107)

…i recall randomly going "wouldn't it be really lulzy if the endgame was NGE's Instrumentality?" but between writing out the above step-by-step, and DoA's objective having to be something to shook Atsushi outside of black-and-white thinking backed by DoA being a treat to ADA… and it's infuriatingly self-defending against that quote you have provided; "define: death"

If we hinge on ability user != ability, and 'ability as an analogy for having thoughts deep/insistent enough to write them down and publish', it circles back to the above, tho without an in-universe explanation. …when is an ability not tied to a user? When it's a singularity. This is the part where once again i suddenly remember i haven't read a single LN and just absorb spoilers like a sea sponge, but: is there some mention (in Stormbringer?) that singularities do not change? In the sense of 'do not adapt to stimuli'? If yes, it would not be a complete sweep as elaborated above, but would still line up with "not acting" in a way. If we tie this to the whole 'god likes order' we breach straight into an entire memeplex of "perfect order = no change" (see also: Shin Megami Tensei's law - aka christian god and angels - factions)

Everyone is in full conspiracy mode since (a little before) the last chapter with the Fyodor ability theories and I'm loving that. That got me thinking:

What was Fyodor's objective again?

Disclaimer, I fully rely on translations, but I cross-checked with two of them so...

special thanks to @ticklinglady for finding these pages!

"... a world free of sin and skill users."

1. A world free of sin

He says he wants to spill the blood of the sinners like 3 times but doesn't really give an explanation of who, what or why.

His definition of "sin" is quite vague, but could be the usual catholic/christian stuff. The one time he identified a specific behaviour as a sin was when the Agency and Port Mafia were killing each other "even though they knew they were being set up to do so" (though he also said Ace breathing and thinking was a crime and said killing Karma was freeing him).

In the Dead Apple novelization (not written, but edited by Asagiri, who came up with the original idea for the movie and gave a whole speech on Fyodor to the writing team), Fyodor does make a speech about the post-dragon red fog surrounding the Earth, transforming it into a "dead apple" by essentially killing everyone and "washing away the original sin of man". The apple motif was a sort of poetic irony.

According to the novelization, this was his true objective at the time and he never mentions the Book, not even in the epilogue, as opposed to doing so in the movie.

This scenario is kind of a contradiction, since the fog would have erased everyone except ability users, though most would have suffered at the hands of their abilities before dying. Said abilities would have then been kept in a collection maintained by Shibusawa, an ability singularity himself, which brings us to...

2. A world free of ability users

I went through the manga and never did find an instance of Fyodor speaking ill of abilities, only ability users. That doesn't mean there is a difference to him in the first place, but it's interesting.

The Dead Apple scenario is to be taken with a grain of salt, but killing everyone doesn't seem to be a problem for him (he kills nearly everyone he interacts with anyway), and this implies that to him every single human is sinful beyond redemption and can only be saved through death. Why he is singling out ability users in that case? seems redundant.

Other instances of him talking about his objective included talking about "the will of the hand of God and Demon", doing this "for the sake of a better world", and saying the death he gives is a form of salvation by severing the influence of sins from the soul. He also talks a big game about God and his intentions (order and stuff), and Dazai likes to point and laugh at him when he does so.

As a bonus, in Dead Apple, Fyodor answered Dazai's question of why he accepted to join forces with him by saying it was "simply to see the world as it ought to be" (and because he wanted entertainment, with Dazai turning out to be that entertainment, as Fyodor was in fact using him the whole time for his own agenda).

now go and apply that knowledge to your theories

26-29- Ango’s epic plot armor (and other complaints)

————————————

Welcome back to the Anti-Dazai Series! I think I should just acknowledge that I have no posting schedule at this point. But the Anti-Dazai Series isn’t discontinued— it’s just taking me longer to create than I was hoping it would. Anyway. Onto a rundown of Dazai Crimes™ in these next four chapters.

————————————

When we last left off, Dazai said he now will get the government involved in this conflict. I sure hope he does this in a normal sensible way, like by explaining what’s going on to them and requesting backup, and not in a Dazai Way, which will most likely endanger people’s lives.

We now return to our protagonist, Atsushi.

After getting scolded (and slapped) by Dazai after the Q incident, Atsushi decides to stay in the agency’s headquarters rather than to go out and risk messing things up again. Kouyou is still being held there, and she asks if he’s here because he “commit[ed] some error that made [him] scamper away from the front lines.” 

Upon hearing that question, he makes a face indicating that she’s right, and when she questions him further, he says “I… I was just trying to protect them all…” while having flashbacks to Naomi and Haruno being injured post-Q fight last chapter. 

If Dazai had chosen something better to say other than “get over it” [the exact quote was mentioned in part 20-25, but it was something similar enough to that], Atsushi wouldn’t be feeling so useless right now. Because he did try his best, and there was nothing he could have done to avoid that outcome. The only person who can do anything about Q’s ability is Dazai, and Dazai was not there with Atsushi at the time to stop it from happening.

Of course, I’m into blaming him for not being there, but I am blaming him for not properly comforting Atsushi. The “tough love” approach clearly failed with Akutagawa, and even though he’s being a lot nicer to Atsushi, in that last Q scene we see him somewhat slip into a tough love approach again. And we see in this chapter that Atsushi is not handling it well, and is taking it quite hard.

Now back to Dazai. Let’s see how his government negotiations are going. 

Seems like he’s meeting with his old friend Ango. I sure hope this doesn’t turn violent..—nope, he’s now pointing a gun at him unprovoked. 

Well at least it can’t get any worse— ah wow it got worse. Dazai just staged a car crash. There is absolutely no way Ango survives this. 

I’m gonna do something I’ve never done before on the Anti-Dazai Series and include a screenshot of the manga, because the amount of plot armor Ango will need to survive this is. a whole lot. I’d really like to elaborate on this scene, but I’m too busy being amazed that Ango survives this.

There is absolutely no way Ango survived that. If BSD didn’t use anime physics, Ango would be very, very dead.

There is a lack of Dazai for a bit, as Kyoka gets captured by the police, Q gets captured by Lovecraft, and Nathaniel abandons the Guild, pushing Francis to speed up their plan of attack. 

But Dazai returns just in time for the Q incident (the actual Q incident, not just a mini fight by the train station). Which is good, ‘cause he’s exactly the guy we need. 

But of course, Dazai can’t handle a city-wide crisis without messing with people first, so when Kunikida approaches him asking about what this mysterious hand-shaped mark that appeared on him is, rather than tying him down to an infirmary bed and sedating him, he chains him up to a chair and simply watches as he has the magical equivalent of PTSD flashbacks [if I’m interpreting these panels correctly]. It is later revealed that not only did Dazai sit around and watch, but he filmed Kunikida for entertainment. I’ll get back to that later, once it’s mentioned in the manga, but keep that in mind.

Meanwhile, Atsushi is fighting for his life out there. With the help of Lucy, Atsushi escapes ((ALSO. It’s really not mentioned enough, but Lucy was the one who originally came up with the idea of the mafia and agency working together to take down the Guild. I’m pretty sure the anime changed it so that it was Atsushi’s idea, but in the manga Lucy suggests it to Atsushi in this scene. I think she deserves more credit than we give her. She’s a pretty cool character.))

Atsushi makes it to the ground safely, and now has the epic quest ahead of him of delivering Q’s doll to Dazai. Unfortunately, Mark is still shooting at him, and manages to hit him, shattering both of his legs . As Atsushi lies on the ground,with two broken legs, reaching for the doll, Dazai spawns out of nowhere and grabs it. Then he reveals that he set up a smoke screen beforehand, and he activates it now.

Sure, it would have been a lot more convenient if he activated it before Atsushi’s legs got shattered, but whatever. What can you expect from this guy, other than this. 

And that’s it for this week’s chapter of the Anti-Dazai Series!! Join me next time when I’ll probably have enough content to stop grouping multiple chapters together like this, because I wanted to include chapter 30 in this entry too, but I scrolled through it and every other panel was Dazai, so I was like “nope! That’s way too much work for today!” and decided that that’ll be a problem for another day.

Manga is 100% superior, if only because it's not dumbed down/made more lighthearted for TV. Like, i watched 1st season (perpetually distracted by 'spot how they're cheaping out on animation/pad out screentime with animation(???)'), then read the manga, then haven't touched anime since. Between tumblr screencaps and being tempted to watch it i just think back to what they did to the source material in S1 and am instantly cured. That said, some bits do kind of feel like Asagiri has an agenda and that agenda is to make people write/read, but the manga is just better at willing suspension of disbelief/has higher concentration of The Good Stuff. By the time the truly stupid shit comes out, the author(s!) have signalled for long and hard enough that they know what they're doing/don't add stuff just because - so you just roll your eyes and roll with it. Plus, chapter-by-chapter it kind of feels like they address the immediate online commentary? Ex. "okay but how are they fed in Meursalt? -> next chapter you get an offhand panel showing you"

Sorry part 2 since I guess I really can't send you manga screencaps on anon but Meursalt also uses square shapes for the prison, which seems more industrial and real vs the hamsterball prison in the show. The glowing balls look like abilities, which wouldn't work on our damaged dearest, while a white and steel fifteen by fifteen box which separates him from the possibly ability derived space in the bottom level does work.

And yeah... I wouldn't trust twitter or any other online space for nuanced discourse but people have hated this show since it first came out. At least we are finally getting fed season 4 after a million years

Aha on ANON, that makes sense actually - the picture I got the other day was not an anon ask (I'm wiping tiny little tears from the corners of my eyes).

Listen, I am not an actual fan of Bungo Stray Dogs as a story. I'm an imposter, really, a fake fan. I'm there for certain characters, and some interesting bits about mashing them together and seeing unique abilities. The actual plot is like 90% Atsushi (whom I hate) and at the same time 40% bullshittery (math what's that?), 20% what the fuck is Asagiri taking, and 30% I can't stand seeing depression treated like this anymore time for fanfics.

I didn't get any sleep last night so I apologize if this sounds deranged and/or delirious but I thought I should come clean. I only enjoy BSD for anything revolving Dazai, Fyodor, Mori (when he's not salivating over Elise), Akutagawa (overdramatic edgelord though he is) and a handful of other characters' interactions and plot developments. My favorite episodes were the 15 Port Mafia days flashbacks, and then literally anything to do with Fyodor. And Dazai but that's obvious.

I should stop rambling. I bet the manga's better though. I just don't read manga except Tokyo Ghoul and yaoi (for drawing references of course).

OP you might be onto something.

However, i'm reading the pocket as a flap, which would naturally droop downwards, but is held up by multiple snaps (for ease of access). If bombs are just held up by that flap, it would put a lot of weight on both armpit stitch and snaps, so both would tear near-immediately. Instead, i'm thinking of rubber bands keeping the loosely-pinned (you made a great point there) grenades inside while enabling their weight to be tied to his arms, using however many connection points necessary.

I started typing with the idea of a white zipper instead of a flap to hide possible bulging, and to hide opening by making it look like a stitch, but now i'm not so sure… With snaps if needed you could probably just slide anything sticking out between them to pull it apart… Does that mean Kaiji would have multiple coats, depending how much stealth is needed?

also, all of this weight basically demands a lot of core strength not to fuck up his spine long-term, and as for 'good at dodgeball'… We're both thinking of Rock Lee from Naruto, aren't we.

just realised i never posted my kajii coat design here. anyways here it is!

i tried to make it make sense, but honestly i think a more realistic explanation is that he just has a pocket dimension in his coat /j

#piracy efforts will keep media alive for far longer than corporations will even bother attempting

What makes us human is the Nintendo 3DS

>#poison is unfair to the reader because it requires them a knowledge of chemistry And i still find the "oh i can stop my heart on command" bit ridiculous. It doesn't work that way, as control over it is part of autonomic nervous system/too mission-critical for manual control, so to speak. In other words: within BSD universe it's perfectly legit, and this 'legitness' is a tool that can be fired at maximum drama. But i like your version better~

I don’t think that Dazai and Fyodor are really poisoned. Dazai would probably know about a poison that could kill  him in 30 minutes but didn’t seem to know it, it wasn’t said that it was a poison made by a gifted, and there was no chemical name or even street name given. Not to mention the fact that it has an antidote and is an injection, and would take thirty minutes before killing them with seemingly no symptoms until then. Injections normally work really fast, or at least puts people in pain quickly before killing them. Poisons with antidotes are really rare. And the most important part of this theory?

We don’t know how long Dazai has actually been poisoned for.

When the time stopping gifted is killed, Dazai says the signals just stopped. He was continuously receiving signals with time pausing. For all we know, he’s  been poisoned longer than thirty minutes by now, and is still experiencing no symptoms. He and Fyodor have effectively been poisoned for different lengths of time, and Dazai doesn’t seem worse off. I think that they’re not poisoned, and they both know it.

Now what would Nikolai’s plan be with this?

Well, the antidote being the real poison feels like the exact kind of chaotic bullshit he would pull.

OP now you made me think; it's been a hot while since i've read C&P but the general vibe i remember is: the plot: chill slice of life the narration: 'if i agree will that be suspicious can that be tied back to me will NOT agreeing be sus-'

so! how do you make yourself hard to remember/as beneath suspicion as possible? 100% bland politeness, no personal details*, no strong expressions/gestures… Gogol as a distraction is a bonus, and while we have no proof of freeze response(s), we not not have them either. these tend to happen if the subject cannot either run or fight. alternatively: when the brain is stuck trying to find the best course of action ;>

*refering to interactions outside of Dazai

i wish they added a little bit more of raskolnikov in fyodor cuz how much more funny would it b if he just kept having random outburst due to paranoia and guilt or if he kept lashing out whenever ppl r slightly nice to him I kinda wish asagiri had made him more of a anxious freak I would’ve enjoyed his character a little more and he would’ve been a lot easier to relate to instead of having him b so detached

like it would’ve been hilarious to watch his goofy ass keep switching between completely cold and calculating to nervously sweating his ass off and desperately trying not to show it

idk I just love when they give villains silly traits instead of making them seem so untouchable and rigid he’s still a cool character though

for exactly one (1) person posting in this tag, because nothing quite irritates as much as 'somebody is WRONG on the internet', even if it is oneself.

#polblr would be uninhabitable if we ever got a real canon anime Adam Mickiewicz or Juliusz Słowacki#but I'm not sure how much sense would it be to put them in bsd tbh#I did draw it once but it's more of a realm of 'wouldn't it be fucked up if...'#personaly I'd go with Tuwim#wouldn't say no to a bsd Gombrowicz too#he'd be fun and quite in line with bsd themes I think three bards feat Norwid and Wyspiański as a whole-ass faction? Gombrowicz to snark at them? There is 0 reason for them to be in BSD proper unless the plot somehow moves directly to Europe. That said, wiki mentions Micky met Goethe - an opportunity for a gaiden-esque story with some vague Buraiha-but-with-travelling-Natsume parallels

everyone has those authors that you would be so unhinged about if they were introduced in bsd right?

mine are: emily dickinson (it might be too late for her but I’m in denial), franz kafka, and any german author but especially goethe (c’mon asagiri give us the rest of the transcendents) and schiller. I’m not able to describe how unhinged I would be if any of them get introduced

everyone has those authors that you would be so unhinged about if they were introduced in bsd right?

mine are: emily dickinson (it might be too late for her but I’m in denial), franz kafka, and any german author but especially goethe (c’mon asagiri give us the rest of the transcendents) and schiller. I’m not able to describe how unhinged I would be if any of them get introduced

>#i'm trying to get into polish poetry especially these days so?? thanks for reminding me i wanted to read Leopold Staff's collection Sny o Potędze ('Dreams of Might'?), on the grounds of being somewhat Nietzsche-flavored. and to find something of Miron Białoszewski that isn't the genuinely delightful Karuzela z madonnami (The Merry-Go-Round with Madonnas). i do not get the idea of reading poetry in anything but the source language so please send a link to translation(s?) of Białoszewski if you find some - i wanna boggle at the shenanigans edit: upon trying to find anything, the best something so far is this.

Gonna launch a bookclub + videoclub here soon, get ready 🎪

Harlan Ellison's 'The Deathbird'?! no way, but…. the kanji matches?!

I just found out Fyodor's cello piece from the 3rd season is called "Bird of death" and I find that interesting for a few reasons.

First of all, is it connected to Nikolai? They work together and -shipping aside - if they're actually friends, it would make sense for Fyodor to write a piece either for him or simply inspired by him. Not only are birds associated with Nikolai, but death as well since he was supposed to die by being cut in half. He also kills people, so if we combine all those things, they kind of make him a symbolic bird of death.

Secondly, it would make the cello scene have a slightly different atmosphere as Fyodor would be playing a piece he associates with his friend who's going to die after commiting a series of murders while a different murder is taking place. Also the situation would be even weirder for Katsura because it would mean he was kidnapped by a guy who didn't just play cello for him, but play a piece he associates with his friend. Of course Katsura would have no way of knowing, but still.

Thirdly, does that make Fyodor a bird of death? Because if it's not connected with Nikolai whatsoever, then it's most likely connected with Fyodor himself. It would make sense because he kills people as well, but would also accidentally make both Fyodor and Nikolai be associated with both birds and death (#matchingimagery).

Lastly, how much does studio Bones know?? I checked the dates of manga volume releases and Sunday tragedy chapters did come out back in 2017, so the team working on the anime would have enough time to integrate this title as an easter egg if they wanted to do that (as the 3rd season began in April 2019), but then again it seems like a random idea to allude to a character from a future arc that they weren't animating at the time. Either a member of the team was/is a fan of bsd or they're getting extra info on future events. Bones also seems to be making surprising decisions when adapting the material (such as putting Fyodor in Untold Origins), so I think it's possible they know something we don't.

But it's also possible that Bird of Death has a different meaning that I'm not aware of or it's all just a coincidence haha

>#unfortunately (for me. its probably a good thing for everyone else) i am not the writer and cant have that whenever you type something, you're a writer. Ao3 awaits >:3

haven't paid theory-grade attention to the plot, but how about just… talking him out of it? 1) there was an amazing theory way back that dove deep into why fukuchi is so… disliked by the fandom; with the tl;dr being (amongst others! <3): "he keeps subverting expectations" - NOT having a final boss fight is 100% more of that. he did go "you have 5mins to suss out my real motives". Season with "in middle of the fight villainous monologue ranpo wakes up and wisely keeps quiet as we works out all the bits"/"atsushi joins with the actual answer clenched in his teeth, cue drama" to taste 2) teruko and fukuchi go way back, given fuku calls the other fuku 'sonny' in the flashback. the request in [villain origin story] flashback can be read as "stop (pointless) deaths", two fukus chapter has the "saving your comrades from death and ending the war, are two different things." => the objective is End-of-Death scenario* (or perhaps, some other form of 'making the world unchanging'?) why? - has to fuck with atsushi's heard harder than "world peace (with a side of totalitarian dystopia)"; thus the goal has to be something he'd personally approve of (world peace being too vague and far-off vs no orphans ever), which could potentially overwrite the means used to get there - goal smaller than (the current) world domination angle would create too much noise - escalate the stakes even harder like a proper animu * BSD makes me keep thinking in SCP Foundation terms. It's quite the assist here, as this subplot tends to have Heroic Optics to it.

so i’ve been thinking

i know, dangerous

in all honesty, what is our cast of characters supposed to do about Fukuchi..?

i’ve already made my rant analysis (that you can read here if you’re interested) about how Fukuchi is really just an old man with a time traveling stabby stick that makes for a horrible OP villain. up until now, when presented with such a crisis, either soukoku or shin soukoku will partner up and defeat the big bad… or at least they had weaknesses, like Dostoy not anticipating Dazai was going to find him at the end of the cannibalism arc, or how most of his henchmen and underlings were eventually foiled or defeated to come to a satisfying conclusion that set us up for the next story beat. even Ranpo has his weaknesses, and his whole character is centered around knowing everything

well, we know for a fact that that’s not going to happen this time considering our usual duos and their friends are having some technical difficulties at the moment...

so that makes me think…

who is left to fight at this point..?

obviously we have Fukuzawa, who is currently fighting, and Atsushi is... around. but, the character on my mind the most at this point is Mori, since he’s been missing for quite a long time now. this by itself isn’t a big deal considering side characters often go literal years without any story time. however, this becomes a bit more interesting considering what’s happening to the rest of the Mafia and the world right now in bsd

so, i’m going to analyze some pieces that might be added to this 4d chess board of a story line. including more than just Mori. however, i’ll be talking about Mori quite a bit in this post, like almost half of it actually, so if you don’t feel like reading this, that’s fine

🔺minor spoiler warning for chapters 30/31, 50, and 84, and Dead Apple and Stormbringer. also spoilers for basically the entire current arc up to the most recent chapter as of writing this (ch 105) since i talk about most of the main events/situations🔻

I’ll start by taking a moment to talk about the European android everyone knows and loves(?) from Stormbringer…

Adam Frankenstein

Ah yes, the android, the myth, the legend, and the being that made me cringe so hard i got face cramps the first time I read him chewing and swallowing multiple pieces of gum like candy. That Adam.

We never see him or even hear of him in any other part of the story, including the main manga. He’s kind of just in Stormbringer and never brought up again, supposedly living somewhere in Europe doing android detective things. We haven’t even gotten a hint or any foreshadowing that he might show up in the main story, either. The reasons I think he may show up now are kind of simple to be honest.

He’s an android. That’s it. He’s, y’know, not made of flesh… And he doesn’t have blood.

What makes blood important right now? The vampires. Considering we know that Bram can transform a human, alive or otherwise, into one of his minions by ingesting their blood, we can probably assume that this is how it works for the other vampires as well. Therefore, Adam is at a major advantage against such an enemy since 1. his body is made of metal that couldn’t be damaged by Piano Man’s wire guillotine or regular bullets and survived the heat of Chuuya’s first Corruption with minimal damage, and 2. he doesn’t have blood. He does have this blue substance that I assume acts something like oil or fuel for his body, but since he’s most definitely not human, this doesn’t count as blood for him. He can’t be turned into a vampire. I don’t even think Fyodor could hack him or put a virus into his system, like he did to the Moby Dick (which is technically an ability that got turned into a mechanical ship). If anything, the vampires would just break their fangs trying to bite into his neck.

Since he’s in Europe, which is where our two jail kings and their entourage are, it’s more likely that Adam will appear in the jail scene with Dazai and Dostoy. I’d honestly be happy to see this because it would be interesting to see how he and Chuuya would interact now after so many years apart if Chuuya is ever cured of his, y’know, vampirism. Since he most definitely isn’t going to just die. It would also introduce a new character for people who haven’t read Stormbringer, which could reignite interest in this god forsaken arc for those of us who have given up on getting more than a few cliffhangers and a reminder that Fukuchi sucks every new chapter (trust me, I feel you).

Moving on to another semi-short analysis for a character we haven’t seen outside of light novels. And the mildly disappointing adaption of one said novel.

Shirase Buichirou

Another character who is also in Europe, specifically London, is Shirase. At the end of Stormbringer, he and Chuuya parted ways on somewhat good terms when Shirase heard of a group called the Stray Sheep in Europe, which he joined. Nothing has been heard of him since, similar to Adam. The only reasons I bring him up here is that 1. he’s in Europe, same as Adam and the jail kings, and 2. he is also connected to Chuuya (and is familiar with Dazai, to some degree, but this isn’t important).

I’m hesitant to say he’ll appear in the story considering we truly have no idea what the state of the BSD world is right now. Japan is overrun with vampires, and there’s probably nobody left there who hasn’t been bitten unless they’re a major character in the story (that hasn’t already been bitten). We know that the vampires have been moving out by disguising themselves with sunglasses and stuff to hide their eyes and complexion and getting on planes. Where those planes went to, we only know it’s somewhere overseas. There’s also mentions of fictional countries that only exist within the BSD world, similar to Kenji’s home town being a fictional one from a novel written by the irl Kenji. Fukuchi mentions he “needs to control half the nations’ armies” in order to carry out whatever plan he has, and it’s probably safe to say this has already come to fruition since he threatened to set the vampire army in motion if One Order wasn’t unlocked.

The likelihood of a character like Shirase appearing without being a vampire is much, much lower than Adam, and for more reasons than just because he’s a regular human. Shirase has no ability and is not named after an author or any other real-life person (that I know of), therefore it’s very unlikely he’ll be revealed to have one unless he wields an ability weapon like Fukuchi’s sword. Which is also highly unlikely. Given these conditions, he’s probably already been turned into a vampire along with the rest of the organization he joined. Another possibility for his inclusion is just to be killed off (by, perhaps, a vampire Chuuya). Or he might make a joint appearance with Adam, but I still doubt he’ll be a major character unless he’s there to die to further the plot.

Not to mention Asagiri has mentioned many times that Chuuya’s story is a long one that’s full of hardships, so perhaps one of those hardships may just be having to kill an old friend.

Sorry Shirase fans, but that’s just my thoughts on the matter.

From here on, I’ll be discussing Mori and how he’s appeared and disappeared throughout major story arcs and how he’s interacted with the ADA since the cannibalism arc. I know he’s apparently a controversial character to talk about because of his ability and the comments he makes about underage girls and whatever, so if you don’t feel like reading this part, that’s fine.

In case you’re interested in another character appearance, I have added a few honorary mentions at the bottom of this post.

Mori Ougai

Port Mafia Boss. Underground doctor. Ex-military doctor. A third of the Tripartite Framework. And one half of the first version of soukoku before it was known as soukoku.

His titles honestly don’t mean much to me as the only thing he continuously claims to motivate him is his position as the Boss, which is reasonable as his entire livelihood is dependent on the organization and its success. He fills his role well as a clear villain character with extremely black if not straight up non-existent morals, which we get plenty of examples of during the Dark Era, the Guild arc, and even the Cannibalism arc. The currently arc also proves that he’s both willing to provide some aid to the ADA, as well as make manipulative requests of them despite the horrible position they’re in currently for his own potential benefit. He is truly, wholeheartedly, an evil character.

What I want to focus on the most is his hand in moving the pieces on the chess board, so to speak. We know that Dazai and Dostoy are both sitting on the board, presumably in control of every piece, but is that really true? Remember, Dazai is only the way he is because Mori manipulated and taught him to be that way, which we can see from the parallels in how they act when making threats or doing something morally wrong. The comparison between Dazai’s attitude and Mori’s in chapter 30 is telling enough, seeing that Mori’s expression when he murdered the previous Boss 8 years ago (as well as when he talks with Hirotsu in this chapter) is almost identical to the one Dazai makes as he says his thinly veiled threat to do the same to Mori. The anime makes these expressions even more similar than they are in the manga, but I take everything studio bones does with a heavy grain of salt at this point… And not just with BSD

The last time we saw Mori was when he was mentioned in chapter 91 as the liaison who informed Tanizaki and Kenji that it was time to come out of hiding. He appeared normal and not infected by the vampire virus, which isn’t much of a surprise to me. Stormbringer showed that he’s more than capable of avoiding death, and by proxy, avoiding the master assassin Verlaine. It wouldn’t be much of a stretch to assume he was able to avoid the hive mind army of vampires that are just regular soldiers, and most of the ability users that have been infected are mafioso who Mori is very familiar with. However, whether or not he’ll intervene in the prison arc is not what I plan to discuss here.

The previous two characters would only make sense to appear in the prison because of their relationship to Chuuya and their location. Mori is Chuuya’s Boss, sure, and sure he probably wants to keep Dazai alive and on his radar, but Mori is still in Japan and knows that Meursault isn’t a place to be taken lightly.

No, I think Mori is about to become a player in the battle against Fukuchi.

My evidence isn’t necessarily anything concrete or even any foreshadowing, such as with chapter 84 when it was pretty obvious that Akutagawa was going to show up to aid Atsushi when he was saying he was all alone, or back in chapter 31 where it was obvious that soukoku was going to reunite for a big fight.

Fukuzawa, so far, has been the only person capable of standing up against Fukuchi alone and not being beaten within seconds (except Tachihara, but, well… yknow). So this alone is interesting to me because Fukuzawa is one of the strongest fighters in the ADA, and arguably one of the strongest fighters in the entire story considering his ability has nothing to do with his raw swordsmanship and martial arts skills. Keeping that small fact in mind, I want to jog your memory of the battle that happened in chapter 50 between Fukuzawa and Mori. Both of them are afflicted with the cannibalism virus, which is probably causing them to feel horrible with symptoms, but they still face off in a 1v1 that looks a little unfair. Mori has his ability, Elise, that does whatever he tells it to do and is basically a highly skilled and deadly combat ability. Fukuzawa, while still an ability user, only has his sword and his physical talents. His ability is a support ability that works on his subordinates, he can’t use it to fight like Mori or Fukuchi. However, he still holds his ground extremely well and even destroys Elise within minutes if not seconds of the fight starting, and Fukuzawa deals the fatal blow to Mori first. Even though Mori also severely wounds Fukuzawa just seconds later, it’s more important that this fight showed us that they are practically equal in combat skill. Not to mention Natsume makes an appearance to tell the two of them to stop fighting since both of their organizations need to survive to uphold the Tripartite Framework, which is something they both agree to disagree on basically.

There’s also the events of Dead Apple where, while under the effects of Shibusawa’s fog, Mori and Fukuzawa are fighting their own abilities and struggling. However, when they meet and switch opponents, they easily take down the other’s ability. They even share a few lines of dialogue that shows they’re familiar with each other’s fighting styles and tricks, similar to their explosive meeting in chapter 30 during the Guild Arc.

Now let’s look at the situation Fukuzawa is in right now. His subordinates are in all danger, and the only one that could potentially be coming to his aid is Atsushi, which is a possibility that I’ll mention at the end of this post. However, doesn’t this setup of our protagonists in a life-or-death situation with no help in sight, seem a little familiar to you?

Dazai was surrounded by soldiers in chapter 31 when Chuuya arrived to (begrudgingly) help him out, on Mori’s orders. Dazai was literally dead in Dead Apple when Chuuya showed up to punch him in the face (deserved) to save him.

Atsushi rarely wins on his own, but with Akutagawa’s help and the singularity created by their combined abilities, they’re able to defeat almost any enemy. And when Atsushi was desperate for help in chapter 84, Akutagawa arrived, even if it was on Dazai’s orders.

Fukuzawa is currently losing the fight against the OP time traveling stabby stick wielding grandpa, putting him in a dire situation of trying to save the ADA while not dying in the process. So, will Mori come out from wherever he’s hiding to provide aid to Fukuzawa? Will zenki soukoku come back and parallel the other soukoku’s reuniting/working together to defeat the big bad? It’s hard to say, honestly, but I do believe it’s entirely possible considering Mori has been strangely missing in the story after agreeing to aid the ADA. Well, the ADA needs aid. Badly. And it’s about time they finally got some.

I think Fukuzawa and Mori have the potential to defeat Fukuchi together considering their both equal in strength, so perhaps putting their finely tuned skills together is what will prove to be our deus ex machina that defeats Fukuchi’s self-induced deus ex machinas that are honestly getting pretty damn tiring at this point.

There’s also the fact that Mori had originally agreed to aid the ADA on the condition that one of their members transfers to the Mafia, so perhaps Mori showing up to aid Fukuzawa will be a manipulation tactic to force them to agree to let him choose who he wants to join, since he only actually wants Yosano out of the deal. However, it’s possible that maybe Tanizaki will be the one to change organizations? He did offer to go in Yosano’s stead in chapter 65 when the deal was originally proposed by Mori, who straight up lied about what Fukuzawa told him over the phone that the one person Mori couldn’t choose was Yosano. Mori is a very, very smart man, so he probably knows that if he forces the ADA into enough of a corner under the guise of helping them, he can get what he wants out of them as well. He could also allow the majority/some of the ADA members to die or come close to force Yosano to heal them and work for him one way or another, since we saw in her backstory in the military that Mori isn’t above shooting someone to make Yosano heal them because now they’re “close to death”. He most likely hasn’t changed much in those ways over the years, so I’m expecting to see some extreme manipulation taking place on his part if he does come back into the story.

Honorable mentions that came to mind as I was working to gather potential suspects:

Atsushi

He’s there, kind of, I guess. So much of the arc recently has been like 2 pages of one perspective before changing to the next that I’m not even sure if he’s still the main protagonist anymore. /j

Since he’s also at the airport where this whole *gestures wildly* thing is happening between the two Fuku’s, it would make sense that he at least shows up during the fight. We also know he’s actively looking for Fukuzawa because he can’t decide on what to do next now that he knows what the DOA is after.

The only way I see Atsushi being implemented in the battle is if he gets super upset or angry over seeing all his friends and coworkers in serious trouble, and either Fukuzawa releases his ability (if that’s even possible) from Atsushi and allows him to use the full power of the White Tiger to fight Fukuchi, which could potentially defeat the time-traveling sword since the Tiger’s claws can cut through abilities. The other option is he goes feral? I don’t really know to be honest. Maybe he just gets his ass beat again by Fukuchi. Who knows. I’ll just be over here preparing the party poppers for Kunikida’s promotion I guess.

Verlaine

Why? For fun.

He’s never appeared in the main story line since he lives in the Port Mafia’s basement basically. But considering the Mafia kinda went up in flames (or vampires, I guess) it’s possible he’s on the move now. Whether he’d appear in the jail, to save Chuuya, or appear at the airport, potentially under Mori’s orders, I honestly don’t know. But, since he’s part of the Mafia and another character we haven’t seen, and the cover of volume 22 as well as other official artwork has been featuring several Stormbringer and Sheep references, some people believe we might be seeing someone from that cast of characters in an upcoming chapter. But honestly I think they might be on as much copium as I am…

It would be funny to see Verlaine show up and just crush Fukuchi in like 3 seconds while the rest of the protagonists couldn’t defeat him though.

Ango?

We see Ango last in chapter 95 when it’s revealed he’s the one that demanded a seal be put on One Order, at Dazai’s request as part of his plan to counter Dostoy. He hasn’t been a big player in this arc beyond being the coordinator early on for the ADA’s moves, but since they all were reunited and came up with their own plans, he’s been more active as just a background character acting on the messages from Dazai. But, since he is the final piece of the Tripartite Framework, I thought I’d just mention him here as well. Natsume clearly wants the three organizations to work together, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Dazai has also given Ango a message or plan to relay to Mori. I don’t think he’ll ever be a super big part of the current events, though, just more of the background coordinator.

The Guild?

We kind of see them and then we don’t. We know Fitzgerald wants to work with whoever is winning, which as far as we know, he thinks is going to be the ADA. He was giving them aid in exchange for Yosano healing Mitchell, but we don’t really see anything come after this agreement is made? Atsushi and Kyouka get into one ambulance with Mitchell inside to bring her to Yosano, and at the same time, Yosano (along with Tanizaki and Kenji) are attacked by the government who set up their own trap unknown to Fitzgerald and Atsushi. We know Fitzgerald didn’t set them up because in the first few pages after we see the government attacking, we see Fitzgerald explaining why he didn’t go with the 74 plans Alcott prepared that included selling out the Agency’s location. Technically, it only happened because Tachihara is a Hunting Dog, so he betrayed the location of the meeting since Mori sent him and the other Black Lizard captains for security, and Tachihara is using his metal manipulation to pretend as if there’s an ability user attacking them with the government so they have to retreat after Kenji is severely injured. He’s also there to prevent Atsushi from reuniting with Yosano just a few minutes later. Which is truly impressive since he’s technically fighting himself the entire time? Wow is that symbolism of him as a character if I’ve ever seen it, that’s for sure. Not to mention he also stabs himself with Gin’s knife, just *chefs kiss* of a character I really wish he wasn’t killed/vampire-d whatever the fuck happened because he deserved so much better. But anyway, we never see the Guild again after this. So we have no idea what they’re currently doing, nor have we seen the other branch of the “Guild” that Steinbeck created at the end of the Guild arc since the end of that arc. So, I doubt they’ll come back.

The Clock Tower?

They’d have jurisdiction over Meursault, but it’s hard to say if they’ll step in. They haven’t been a part of the story at all beside Agatha’s little cameo from chapter 12. On a side note, I believe Agatha’s ability will be something along the lines of causing death in accordance to the lines in the poem “Ten Little Soldiers” (obviously I’m not putting the original name here) since her ability is named after the mystery novel And Then There Were None that’s about ten people dying on an island of various means that follow the reasons in the rhyme of the poem. It’s quite interesting, actually. But back to my main point, I don’t really see why they would suddenly come into the story now. If anything, they might appear if Fukuchi decides to try and use his vampire army against the governments of the world and create a world-wide coup d’etat with One Order.

Is this a copium-driven fever dream of a hope to have? Haha, fuck yeah it is! But I’ll let the copium win today if it means having at least a little hope that Fukuchi’s arc of shitty OP-ness will come to an end soon. Please. Asagiri I’m begging. I’m on my knees. Just PLEASE

Anyways, that's my thoughts on the matter. This theory was a little out there and not really based on too much evidence, but I still felt the need to write up this post, or else the brainrot might actually get my final braincell and it'd be all downhill from there.

As always, I hope you enjoyed, and thanks for reading. If you have your own idea of what you think will be the thing to defeat Fukuchi, feel free to say it in the comments or send a message to my Inbox on my profile. We can cope theorize together :)

**i just finished editing this oh my god this is so long i’m sorry i just had a lot of brainrot about this and i’m desperately awaiting whatever is going to end Fukuchi to the point i want to do it myself

YES BUT WHAT ABOUT VIRTUAL, TRACKED POSSESSIONS

tbh i did mull this over some more and it gets weirder. because if - for instance -  you set your paper national bonds on fire, then you lose the right for the government to buy them back from you. comparatively, if people don’t stalk what you’re doing (an actual thing!) and you torch your rights-to-dividend this shouldn’t change the value because noone knows about it (the percieved value of the company doesn’t change). But if they do? the companies’ value would drop only when the rest of the pack would learn about it, thus lowering the current monetary value of any other stock he has.

Great scott, does his ability account for that? And if so, can you circumvent it by having your loyal (which is a quality that the great fitzgerald implictly makes measurable) underlings play stocks under your direction, without question? would that change their value (since it would be on their names), or could fitz use them ad hoc, bc he’s the one calling the shots? How do you put a price tag on them? Do their connections and skills qualify? That would open the possibility of inducing memory erasure.

And how would it work in, say, medieval times? Would the monetary value be counted from where he is, or where his goods are? What about the monetary value of ash? sure, he can’t use it again, but what if it’s made into soap? Can he torch it for it’s full value or is it lowered, accounting ability-created ash? If it lowers, then how precisely and can we ship-of-agronauts this shit? If we return to modernity then the change should be neglible, b/c value has to be agreed upon between parties thus he would profit from immaterial aspects of the product, like brand - without using them up, too!

If we go with something more material - like owning majority of the company assets (less in the sense of instruments etc, but a bit more direct i-paid-for-the-chairs sense), what happens to the company’s assets? can he turn whole buildings into ash? if he doesn’t own everything and it’s regulated with papers, what happens to other shareholders? if they can’t extract even what they put in to get the mess of the ground, does that mean he torches their stuff too?

going back to stocks, there are instruments that do not give the right to dividend. As a trade good, when torched in large qualtities they could swing the percieved value (since there are less of them) but only, again, if the world at large knows about it. I do recall a strat of following sb prolific, which is doable bc stocks are virtual. For instance, main stock market opens and closes at specific hours. Assuming he wrecks shit using stocks durning it’s downtime, and is prolific enough to be followed - do the stocks flop and if so, there are actual, imposed limits on how much a stock’s value can change within a single opening/hour/day. Does that mean the-stock-exchange-as-an-institution caps what he can do with it? Did he throw a whole stack into the air but only some of them disintegrated?

So when fitz uses his ability, does it create glitches in the system that relies on having it’s stuff written down in multiple places - can it even happen, given that the servers aren’t his to play with? if we go by power-from-the-money-he-would-have-gotten-if-he-sold-it it’s taking what isn’t his and what has… unagreed upon monetary value to fuel his punches - in other words, HOW MUCH IS THE FUTURE FINANCIAL STABILITY OF THE WORLD WORTH? The world would let him go scott-free, ala the last crisis. If it works multilaterally, it *could* create a situation where his meddling lowers the monetary value of someone ELSE - for instance, lowering the value of something could also lower it’s value for the purpose of hedging bets.

Or he’s just rapidly selling his virtual stuff (which would go against the whole “objects turn into dust”, bc the buyer has 100% usable toys) and it’s chalked up to …this?

FITZGERALD: ROBOT OR NOT? Find out in the next episode!

Or maybe he’s just a misshapen refugee somehow fused with his asset from [C]-Control universe.

@your post on twitter about fitz: HOLY SHIT THAT IS SO BROKEN. you aren't thinking big enough. get this: you sell a metric fuckton of forward/future contracts, go beat up someone nosediving the stock market value, then profit from the difference. with leverage, this could theoretically give him more that he spent, not including the advantage gained from beating sb up. (also where all these things disappear to. hm.)

…hell, depending on the fine details it should work as well with normal stocks of smaller companies. do the virtual papers disappear (how does that work with taxes, for that matter?), or do everyone gets deluded that they aren’t worth as much? b/c drop of stock value doesn’t mean the business magically produces/sells/etc less, it’s just a representation in the market’s current belief in it’s money-making capabilities. also insider trading. so much potential for insider trading.

(these asks are a reference to my short rant about bsd Fitzgerald’s ability, which apparently allows him to convert the monetary value of literally ANYTHING (including money, items, jewelry, and even people) into super strength and invincibility - the bigger amount of monetary value at hand, the stronger he becomes)

YEAH EXACTLY….like this man could literally belong to Hirohiko Araki of Jojo Bizarre Adventure’s fame because his power is just THAT effed up and broken. Like, as far as we know, Fitzgerald’s ability works like this:

a) something has monetary valueb) Fitzgerald’s ability can convert the monetary value into strengthc) objects and items get degraded into dust upon use, people do notd) it can only be used once per object/persone) Fitzgerald has to OWN the thing/person (for the latter, not in a slavery way, but in a more “I’m loyal to you and will follow you for the rest of my life” kind of way?)

Like you said, the potentials of abusing this ability are endless, especially considering stocks because like paper bills, those also can be converted into monetary worth….like, about using stocks in general, I imagine he could make it so that they disappear, that the amount of stocks actually goes down because the ones he used ceased to exist, but WHO KNOWS??? How much does this man know about abusing his ability in relation to the stock market? I mean, I could imagine he’d get in trouble re: stock fraud if they find out stocks are mysteriously disappearing under his nose but if they don’t disappear than this man can’t be stopped?? Just the potentials are endless and this man’s ability seems like the most ridiculous thing in the world but it’s also the most terrifying in the world if he knows how to use it correctly.

SOMEONE STOP F SCOTT FITZGERALD BEFORE HE ABSORBS MONEY AGAIN