#piracy Efforts Will Keep Media Alive For Far Longer Than Corporations Will Even Bother Attempting

Desire (lust) to wait (sloth) so that curses (gloom) accumulate to cause more damage (wrath)? Nonsense straight out of Persona 5, with biding one's time specifically so that revenge will be sweeter. Also lol that mechanically he's what is labeled as buddha murti but what looks like khakkhara. Imagery of Heathcliff looking like a guy but being merely a staff to bonk the deserving(?).

The corrosion line kind of reinforces the 'playing the long game' take: "The wheel of samsara turns once." As in, it turns and the target is dead - but with it, there is no long game to play anymore, so (the reason to continue) Heathcliff is not more as well.

"I have not broken your heart - you have broken it; and in breaking it, you have broken mine."

is the quote that comes to mind, tho i'm sure someone who actually read it can pull out something much better ;^) Does that mean the quote is/will be a feather Cathy?

as for resistances: the pattern of weak-to-envy continues, in that someone else would have to sit his ass down and explain that this notion makes the world worse (instead of being to the point about it). Lust resist because it's the sort of harebrained plan that's less do-gooding and more feel-good (partially about one's inaction/inability to act). Light sloth resist as most of the time this mindset is in snooze mode ;D ...and also, why are they're equal? balancing aside maybe because if proportions are off, the behavior/vibe changes? Gloom it up too hard and it's just whining without doing anything at all. Wrath it up and retaliation is immediate. Lust it up and it's less karma themed and more just pummeling the target. Sloth it up and one ignores the opportunity to take revenge, blinded by despondency?

Oh this Sin Cost for Heathcliff's Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam is juicy. I don't have the brainpower for in-depth analysis right now but.

The pairs of opposites in Wrath-Sloth and Lust-Gloom. The sheer addition of Wrath and Gloom compared to Outis's. The lack of Pride compared to Outis's. It's just so.

Outis Base EGO Sin Analysis

Right, I made this blog specifically to analyze her sins… and promptly forgot to do that!

For the meanings of each sin, I’ll be largely referring to this post from @lu-is-not-ok​ (its a very good post, do check it out!)

I originally meant to do her base ID and EGO in the same post, but, the EGO alone goes on for a while. (I’ll probably write up the base ID tomorrow)

Keep reading

in light of the trailer for the new captain america movie dropping, a reminder that bds has asked people to boycott this film specifically due to marvel's refusal to remove the character of sabra.

this also implies it's limited in scope/temporary, as he can't be the first person to get that idea. Alternatively, either elaboration on the whole 'Amenogozen talks' bit or making this a three-way fusion would make this case unique enough to make future uses of this plot device difficult to predict.

As for singularity: if he's holding Amenogozen and using it to control his own behavior (carving marks from the future to the past), doesn't that kind of parallel Bram's ability being controlled/amplified by Mirror Lion, as he's extension of what Fukuchi is wielding?

because "wield yourself directly" is too banal, tho it can be explained as a risky choice, hence happening at this point in time

My new theory is that Fukuchi merged with The Page and it's based on the looks of his god form

I didn't figure out how the singularity of them works yet but I think it might have something to do with the fact of killing him being contradictory to what was written on the Page before

mmm we could still be like "Dostoy had a shot perfectly lined up, and instead of offing Dazai right there merely uses it to force cannibalism arc to go brr", and then course-correct with 'because Reasons Dazai is crucial to whatever plan to erase ability users is being cooked', and THEN course-correct with 'not that easy to abduct', and then course-correct with...

the point is: you are reading a manga. The authorial intent is to keep Dazai alive and to showcase that normies can do stuff too. (the latter was mentioned in interviews, but you can work it out asking 'why is this the author-approved outcome, what themes/ideas does it reinforce'). How exactly this happens is razzle dazzle and willing suspension of disbelief, most likely induced by the plot being engaging in the moment.

Wouldn't be surprised is that for all our whining we're sticking around due to logic underpinning these two decisions.

also notice Fukuchi didn't Amenogozen Aya to pieces either and use the 10s window to cover to cutting down Bram. Because otherwise a) Aya would have no agency in the plot, see above b) we wouldn't get zonked by Tachihara vs Fukuchi (which happened to enable more character building and to slowly raise threat level. Without the slowdown the readerbase would go "this is OP bullshit" even harder. As is, the bootstrap paradox is framed more as a logical extension of what was already known - we just didn't sit down and try to break it Jojo-style)

You know who would've been a perfect person to be in prison with Fyodor? Ranpo.

Give Ranpo an earpiece, use Ango's influence, and Ranpo can easily communicated in Morse code or something. It doesn't need to be that secret because Ranpo can figure out Fyodor's plans just by looking at him.

Because that puts Dazai on the outside. Everyone's still using Ranpo's genius, but now they have No Longer Human, and that changes everything.

Time-traveling sword? Nullified, Fukichi loses. Vampires? All Dazai needs to do is touch the sword in Bram. One Order? Dazai destroys it. Dazai just needs to touch the Page and it's gone. Seriously, Dazai's ability was so perfect for all of the problems in the series and he just wasted away in prison playing mind games with Fyodor. I love Ranpo, but he doesn't have a fighting ability, and he literally stayed in one room the whole time anyways.

BSD 112: War and Peace

Now that the manga has finally caught up to the anime, I shall say that I am still pretty convinced Fyodor will pull a Jesus and be fine.

That said, I hella loved this chapter. The themes, man. Essentially Fukuchi is inviting Fukuzawa to become God, though I would NOT be surprised to see a certain new character show up considering this entire chapter is basically Fukuchi and Fukuzawa trading paraphrased quotes from A Certain Novel.

It's a battle of free will vs peace, and how we walk that line as individuals and societies... war is futile and hell, and pointless because what even is a state anyways besides some arbitrary idea we've all agreed to for... reasons, and yet if you remove the ability for war and conflict as a whole, you don't really have humanity but instead mind-controlled slaves.

War is not a polite recreation, but the vilest thing in life, and we ought to realize this and not make a game of it... as it stands now it's the favorite pastime of the idle and frivolous.”

Every action of theirs, that seems to them an act of their own freewill is in the historical sense not free at all but is bound up with the whole course of history and preordained from all eternity... Man lives consciously for himself, but serves as an unconscious instrument for the achievement of historical, universally human goals.

It's true that people are born where they are born, and caught up in the stories that are grander than they are. Everyone likes to imagine what they know and what they experience and what they want and believe is True, but is it? Or is it merely a product of how they've grown? Is it a product of the centuries and millennia of people before us who create wars and conflicts and use us in them?

Yes, humans are used as unconscious instruments. But is that all they are? All they should be? Fukuchi seems to think yes. If they're currently used as instruments of war, then why not use them. as instruments of peace?

Fukuzawa, however, thinks otherwise.

It's an existential question humanity has been wrestling over since human beings have existed, and it won't be answered anytime soon because there is no neat answer. It's the paradox of human nature and human existence.

He had learned that, as there is no situation in the world in which a man can be happy and perfectly free, so there is no situation in which he can be perfectly unhappy and unfree.

Dictatorships are known, obviously, for suppressing free will and free expression.

Now, in War and Peace, Tolstoy's answer is love. And God, who is Love. But love first and foremost since Tolstoy himself wasn't super religious when writing it (later on he was though).

Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here.

Yet, if you remove the ability to choose love or violence, then:

A man having no freedom cannot be conceived of except as deprived of life. 

And it's pretty clear what lesson Fukuchi has to learn:

Life is everything. Life is God. Everything shifts and moves, and this movement is God. And while there is life, there is delight in the self-awareness of the divinity. To love life is to love God. The hardest and most blissful thing is to love this life in one's suffering, in the guiltlessness of suffering.

Life sucks. War is hell. It makes life feel like it's not worth living. But without free will, you are not alive at all.

For if we allow that human life is always guided by reason, we destroy the premise that life is possible at all.

Anyways, even if Leo Tolstoy does not appear as an actual character with the supreme ability of "War and Peace," well, he sure is influencing this arc a lot.

Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis

Woo, first post, and its about Heathcliff. Alright straight to the point. Its as the title says, this is a Sin Analysis on all of Heathcliff’s IDs. This was made awhile ago before R Corp. Meursault was revealed. And yes, that does somewhat have something to do with R Corp. Heath. Anyway, this was made using @lu-is-not-ok‘s guide to Sin Analysis….mainly because its much more in-depth than what I could have done on my own. This doesn’t include any E.G.O. because my brain can only do so much. But here it is, my official Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis and how R Corp. Heath has the weirdest Sin affinities when looking at the ID in this light.

LCB Sinner Heathcliff

Envy - Heathcliff’s whole thing is Revenge. His bat has Revenge written on it, clearly showing that getting revenge is his thing. This sin showcases that he wants to get revenge on someone, something or multiple people/things. Due to him being a backstreets kid, he most likely wants revenge on the rich, though its also possible, he wants revenge on whatever got him into his position as a Sinner. This is unlikely to be Catherine due to his last sin affinity.

Wrath - Wrath is about as obvious as Envy. Heathcliff was born in the backstreets and grew up there. His Wrath is his want to defy the rich and prove that even those born in the backstreets can be as good as them, similar to Rodion.

Lust - Lust once again, is obvious. In all honesty, base Heathcliff has pretty basic and obvious sin affinities. The reason that Heathcliff has a Lust sin affinity is due to his want to be with Catherine again.

N Corp. Kleinhammer Heathcliff

Envy - N Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Envy can be seen in two ways. First is the same as Base Heathcliff. He wants to get revenge on the rich for being a backstreets kid. The other is a sort of distorted want for revenge against those with prosthetics. This would fall in line with N Corps. Ideals, but this also falls in line with another N Corp. ID, N Corp. Faust. NFaust also has envy as one of her sins. N Corp. Faust seemingly has no reason to want revenge on anything, but she could want a form of retribution against those with prosthetics, making N Corp. Heathcliff have the same reasoning behind his Envy sin affinity.

Gloom - N Corp. Heathcliff’s Gloom sin affinity represents his past. This version of Heathcliff seems to be much more sad and depressed than most of Heathcliff’s IDs. This is due to both the events that led to his separation with Catherine and his current situation, that being his brainwashing at N Corps. hands. He actively fights against the brainwashing but is slowly failing, as seen through multiple of his voice lines and dialogue.

Lust - Lust for N Corp. Heathcliff would actually be the same as Base Heathcliff. It represents his want and desire to return to Catherine. He directly calls out to them on his Death and even mentions in his Extra Conditions dialogue, that if he keeps this up he will be able to go back one day, almost certainly meaning his want to be with Catherine again.

Shi Association South Section 5 Heathcliff

Lust - Shi Heathcliff is interesting as he shares all the same sin affinities as Base Heathcliff but reversed. Lust for Shi Heathcliff seems to represent his Lust for combat and death, similar to Ryoshu. He doesn’t seem to have any desire to be with Catherine again, if this version of him ever met or was with them in the first place.

Wrath - Shi Heathcliff’s version of Wrath could represent that he doesn’t really like how the Shi operate. He prefers getting personal with his kills and gets bored with the typical fast kills. He would rather do his own thing than actually be an assassin.

Envy - Shi Heathcliff still has a bit of his Revenge attributes in him. He mentions how he will make another Shi member pay for having slept through their alarm. This shows that this aspect of him still exists but to a much lesser degree than his other IDs. Its likely that Shi Heathcliff is still a backstreets kid but it isnt made clear if he wants the same revenge on the rich as his Base ID does.

R Corp. 4th Pack Rabbit Heathcliff

Wrath - Wrath is interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff, as it almost seems to be the opposite of him. He doesn’t care about doing anything other than fight, which is exactly what he exists for as a R Corp. soldier. He likes what he does so its interesting that he has a sin that represents defiance.

Gluttony - Gluttony in context of R Corp. Heathcliff is similar to Lust for Shi Heathcliff. They both want more combat, they want to fight and kill more enemies. R Corp. Heathcliff is a soldier, his existence is combat, even more so due to him most likely being one of R Corps. Clone soldiers.

Envy - Envy is also interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff. Due to him most likely being a clone, he shouldn’t have any reason to want revenge or retribution for anything done to him. He almost certainly doesn’t want to be with Catherine and definitely doesn’t even know who they are. He has everything he wants or cares about. 

Its interesting that R Corp. Heathcliff has two sin affinities that seem to go against his existence. Maybe this is an example of our version of a sinner bleeding into a mirror worlds version, meaning that R Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Wrath and Envy are actually Base Heathcliff’s.

Addendum: 7/11/23 - Since originally writing this, R Corp. Meursault has been revealed, and through his trailer, a pseudo-confirmation that the R Corp. IDs are indeed clones…….which brings in so many other questions when it comes to them, but does make what i said about RHeathcliff, his sin affinities and him being a clone a bit more concrete……it makes it more confusing that he has these affinities since hes a clone and doesnt/shouldnt care about things the other Heath IDs do.

Lobotomy E.G.O::Sunshower Heathcliff

Envy - Envy for Sunshower Heathcliff represents his disdain for Technology. As a member of the Technology Liberation Alliance, he wishes to “liberate” all technology and return to a time before it. But he doesn’t seem to truly care about this.

Gloom - Gloom is easy to understand for Sunshower Heathcliff. All of his friends have died in some way. He doesn’t have anyone and is alone. He roamed the backstreets before joining the TLA and currently does. Its also possible that parts of his sadness are brought about by his E.G.O equipment, as he mentions having cold and dark feelings rush into him when he first put on the E.G.O equipment.

Sloth - Sloth is also easy. Sunshower Heathcliff mentions sleep and sleeping a lot. He is constantly thinking about falling asleep or finding some dark alleyway to stay in, away from everything and everyone else. He doesn’t truly care about anything other than sleeping, after the death of his friends.

The Tick: letters get carved on it, visible from earth LOCAL 58 TV: implied to be an alien colony? A Creature? I Wanna Be The Guy: moon dropping on you is one of it's 'lol u ded' moments

List Of Media Where Something Fucked Up Happens To The Moon

despicable me (moon theft)

miraculous ladybug (moon split in half)

hermitcraft (moon big)

feel free to add

two in one theory... i am listening very intently if you ever feel up to share it!!

Alright, so this is gonna be... as close to an Abridged explanation of the theory as I can make, because if I went off on everything about it I would end up writing a whole dissertation or five hour video essay script on this shit.

There are gonna be three main sections to this post - Hong Lu's Daiyuisms, Hong Lu's Themes of Identity and how that connects to the concept of Two in One, and the Daiyu-Baoyu theory itself.

Strap in folks.

Hong Lu's Daiyuisms

If you know anything about my theories in the earlier days of Limbus, you might know that I'm one of the very few people who was convinced Hong Lu is actually Daiyu, due to some evidence I found personally compelling. This has not changed, as we've only gotten just as much extra evidence to this as we have to him being Baoyu. So let me just speedrun through some of these points.

The Fucking Jade Eye

Ok hear me out. This is maybe the least important piece of evidence but I can never stop thinking about it. Hong Lu's jade eye? Not actually fully blue! If you look closely on most of his sprites, you can see that he actually has sectoral heterochromia, meaning his jade eye is both blue and black.

Daiyu's name, quite literally, translates to blue-black jade.

Now, you could claim that this is merely meant to be an easter egg reference to her, but... is that really Project Moon's style? After all, when people speculated on Don Quixote being Sancho or a Bloodfiend partially based on her appearance all the way back since near launch, they turned out to be right.

Hong Lu's Father

As of now, there is only one instance of Hong Lu referencing his Father in Limbus, and it's a voiceline from his Base Identity:

Now, if you know anything about DOTRC, this should already be raising some flags, because if Hong Lu was just Baoyu, he would not fucking talk like that about his Father.

In the book, Baoyu is consistently shown to be afraid of his Father, for a good reason mind you, as he's his main abuser. Baoyu would not be looking forward to introducing his friends to that man.

Even if Hong Lu was trying to downplay the abuse he's recieved, this would still not fit his pattern of behavior. When topics that genuinely bother Hong Lu come up, such as what could make him distort or how rich people would enjoy gifts made of humans, he immediately pivots and tries to avoid the topic at all cost. He would not bring up his main abuser in such a lighthearted manner, he would avoid bringing him up at all cost.

However, there is a character in DOTRC which does in fact have a more positive relationship to her Father, and would likely be the one with an opinion such as that - Daiyu. Daiyu loves her Father, and when he dies she completely disappears from the story for a bit to attend his funeral. If there was anyone who would be excited to introduce their friends to their Father, it'd be Daiyu.

Lasso Hong Lu's Corrosion

I made a whole seperate post about this, but I might as well mention it here as well for the sake of completion. The design choices made for Hong Lu which are missing for Faust are very, very Daiyu-coded.

For one, not only does Hong Lu completely turn into a flower, unlike Faust, his horse also gains a flower in its mouth. For those whose knowledge of DOTRC is zero to none, Daiyu is a reincarnation of a Flower given sentience due to being watered by the Jade. I don't think I have to be the one to connect the dots between those two pieces of info for you.

The second is how the halters become a noose for Hong Lu. This, too, is a very Daiyu thing - Rose Hunter as an Abnormality represents the inability to escape one's fate, and Daiyu's fate is to die - the Jia Family arranging a marriage between Baoyu and Baochai leads to Daiyu falling deathly ill, which in itself could be considered a part of her repaying her Debt of Tears - the debt she swore to repay to the Jade/Baoyu when she was still a Flower.

The hilarity of the fact that this E.G.O came out in the same update as Hong Lu being called Baoyu in-story is not lost on me.

Rose Sign Abnormality Log

The third Log for Rose Sign ends in a very peculiar way.

There's multiple ways one can tie Hong Lu's odd reluctance to talk about flowers and the petals. One is the obvious "he's being reminded of Daiyu because she was a Flower" connection, but there's another one.

One of the most commonly potrayed images of Daiyu relates to a scene in DOTRC where she buries fallen flower petals, weeping for and lamenting the mortality of the flowers and herself. Hong Lu's reaction here to his fellow Sinners being reduced to nothing but petals upon Rose Sign's death feels like a notable parallel to Daiyu's flower burial scene.

Like literally everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu

The title for this is a bit of an exaggeration, but at the same time. I'm serious. Kurokumo Hong Lu is perhaps the most Daiyu Identity out of all the Hong Lu Identities we have, and the way he is designed to stand out among them further makes me go insane.

Kurokumo Hong Lu's most defining trait is his attitude - he often complains about his position and how authority treats him, though he doesn't really act out against them in any major way outside of making snarky or sarcastic remarks.

This is, frankly, an extremely Daiyu thing to do. Daiyu is one of the few characters who audibly complains about her treatment in the household. For example she complains about not being given as many opportunities to show off her poetry skills as her male peers are, and she recognises how, when all the girls in the family are given flowers, she's the last one to recieve them and thus is stripped of the ability to pick, being only given the leftovers.

Then there's the whole. Everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu's visual design. Because once you realize just how Daiyu-like the Identity is, you realize just how weird he is compared to other Hong Lu Identities. I mean just look how he compares to his other Identities.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity with a blue tint to his hair in the combat sprite rather than the usual purple.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity whose hairtie is a ribbon rather than a jade ring (Liu Hong Lu technically has the ribbon in his post-uptie art, but he doesn't have it in his combat sprite so I'm not counting him).

He's the only Hong Lu Identity to not be smiling in his combat sprites.

And he's the only Hong Lu Identity (and one of only four Identities in the game) whose Idle sprite has its body facing away from the opponent rather than facing towards them.

All of those combine to make him stand out like a sore thumb in a Hong Lu Identity lineup in a way that makes it feel intentional, especially since he's also the only Hong Lu Identity with that kind of notable attitude towards authority. Other Hong Lu Identities are either obedient, don't express any opinion, or just straight up are the authority.

The Baoyu reveal is framed in a very weird way

This is, admittedly, less of a Daiyuism and more of a not-Baoyuism, but I thought it'd be important to mention nonetheless.

There are a lot of things about Canto 7's reveal of Hong Lu's name being Baoyu that are very strange, especially compared to how the Canto frames Don Quixote's own reveal of actually being Sancho.

For one, the timing itself - why is such an important piece of info being revealed so early? Again, compare to Donqui - she was revealed to be a Bloodfiend in the Intervallo right before Canto 7, and the Sancho reveal only came in the second half of the Canto.

For two, the framing - Donqui's reveals are treated as what they are, Major Reveals. The Baoyu reveal on the other hand happens in a single off-handed line, with nobody reacting to it in any way. Neither Hong Lu nor the other Sinners seem to hear it after all.

And mind you, it's not like Limbus is opposed to giving us important information in off-handed lines - far from it in fact. Project Moon loves shoving little bits of foreshadowing and reveals you don't realize are reveals until way later in these kinds of off-handed lines. But the way those lines are treated is still very different to how the Baoyu reveal is treated.

Usually, when there's foreshadowing in off-handed lines, it's usually either vague enough to be something a character could say regardless of context (see Yi Sang getting hung up on the Sedatives bit in Canto 2 or Ishmael's comment about Syndicates pretending to be Families foreshadowing her own history with the Middle via Queequeg) or something that is in the middle of a scene that distracts from what is actually being said (like Hong Lu's distortion foreshadowing being in the middle of an important infodump or most of everything in Canto 2 being surrounded by a comedic tone).

None of this is present for the Baoyu reveal. There's nothing to distract you from this information, as the scene is already focused on discussing Hong Lu, meaning you're already likely to be paying attention to what is being said about him. There's also no vagueness about it, there's no way you can brush it off since not only are Wei and Xichun newly introduced characters, but it's a whole ass clearcut namedrop.

The only way I can justify that reveal being there in the form it takes is that it in itself is the distraction. Think about it. Didn't I point it out earlier that this reveal came in the same update as the E.G.O with an extremely Daiyu-coded corrosion design? Wouldn't it make sense for that reveal to be there to lower your guard, make you think you resolved that mystery, only to later on reveal it wasn't the whole story after all?

Hong Lu's Themes of Identity

So this section is a bit more vague than the Daiyuism section, because Hong Lu is the type of guy to just Say Shit all the time. It's basically just. Anything that I find relevant to the idea of Hong Lu's Identity being more complex than him just being a random guy using a pseudonym, with some (but maybe not all) of them directly tying to the idea of Two in One.

"Which one is the real you?"

There are currently two seperate scenes where Hong Lu muses on the idea of someone's identity being in some way vague or obscured.

Is Dante the person or the clock? Is the dreamer the one in the dream or the one who wakes from it? Which you is the real you? Does it even matter if that you will flutter away in the end?

This idea of there being one true self. That even if there are two, there is only one of them that is actually you. Curious, right?

Face-changing dance

During the Canto 2 scene where everyone gives their reasons for whether or not they'd be a good pick for being the one to dance, Hong Lu says this.

Bian lian is a kind of dance literally translated as "face-changing". It involves rapid changes between various masks and make-up to represent different emotions or characters.

Now, it's no secret that Hong Lu is a great actor, as we see in Canto 4, and Canto 7 shows how the comparison to theatre and actors can be used to symbolize one's performance of identity, as it does for Sancho and her Don Quixote persona.

Mind you, this reveal comes in the same scene as Sinclair's dance invoking the image of a bonfire burning all through the night according to the Mariachis, a clear foreshadowing to Canto 3 and the Literal burning down of Sinclair's home.

Hong Lu knowing bian lian could be further foreshadowing to his own skills in deception, and how he too is a sort of actor, not unlike Don Quixote. On the other hand however, it could also be a more literal foreshadowing, that he (Baoyu) Quite Literally changed his face. We won't know until Canto 8, but it is an option you know.

The HamHamPangPang dish(es)

For those who don't know, here is a list of the Sinner-themed dishes that were available at HamHamPangPang.

Now, chances are, not all of them have deep meanings. I don't think there's much of a deep meaning to Heathcliff and Ishmael's dishes, I think PJM just legit don't know much about British/American cuisine so they just picked something recogniseable.

However, not all of them are meaningless picks either. Ryoshu, likely a mother, has a meal literally called "parent-and-child donburi". Don Quixote, a Bloodfiend, has a garlic-based dish. These were clearly done on purpose.

So, what does it say that Hong Lu's dish is actually two different dishes? That he's the only one whose dish is two different dishes? And it's not like the two are in some way inherently connected, since they're of completely different cuisines. Japchae is a Korean dish, not Chinese like the Mandarin rolls.

And just in case you weren't convinced that Hong Lu's choice of dishes is purposeful - another name for Mandarin rolls is flower buns, and one of the special occasions japchae is commonly served for is weddings. If you had read through the Daiyuisms section and somehow have no idea what the significance of that is, I don't know what to tell you.

The Daiyu-Baoyu Theory (finally)

So. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could still be Daiyu despite being revealed as Baoyu. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could be a Two in One deal, or that at the very least there's something more complex going on with his identity. But let's discuss the theory itself, how it would recontextualize certain things, and why I think it's an extremely fitting an thematically resonant direction for Hong Lu's Canto to go in.

The Theory

Here's what I speculate is going on.

Daiyu, just like in DOTRC, is someone who was taken in into the Jia Household rather than born in it, and who strongly connected with Baoyu upon meeting him. The two would end up forming a bond strong enough that they would be willing to die for one another (or, if they're in particularly argumentative moods, to kill themselves just to force the other to have to live a long life grieving over them - this is an actual argument they have in DOTRC and I pray to god this is adapted into Limbus because it's too fucking funny).

At some point, Baoyu either dies or is brought to near death, likely through the same circumstances as in DOTRC - being beaten by his Father. To save him, his memories and consciousness would be transferred to his eye, a process not dissimilar to the one Xichun brings up in Canto 7, and implanted into Daiyu's body, causing them to become a vessel for Baoyu. This would be how Hong Lu as he is now is created.

All of the above is the main basis for this theory. Everything else that I might speculate about, such as the exact nature of the two's relationship, Daiyu's more exact background and personality, how their pre-reincarnation lives could be adapted - all of those are things that are purely speculative and ones that I don't really expect to be actually fulfilled. The only bits that I am sure are likely to be true is what I laid out above.

So... what does it all mean for the future? I'm glad you asked!

The Recontextualization

Here's a collection of just a couple of things that Hong Lu has said or is depicted as that would be heavily recontextualized if this theory ends up being true.

Hong Lu surviving despite claiming he didn't fight back when his siblings first tried to kill him: With the context that he used to be two seperate people, the answer to how he survived is made very simple. Baoyu is the one who wasn't fighting back. Daiyu, however, could have still protected him in turn.

The red ribbon on Hong Lu's weapon: There is only one other Sinner who has a similar decoration on their weapon - Ryoshu, who also has a red ribbon on her sword, which could be easily connected to Yuzuki and her death. With the context of Hong Lu being Baoyu occupying Daiyu's body and thus effectively rendering their self non-existent, the red ribbon could be a parallel symbol - a symbol of Daiyu and their 'death'.

How Hong Lu treats his weapon in his base E.G.O: The way Hong Lu holds his weapon in the illustration is more like he's cradling another person. This could be a representation of how he feels about Daiyu's situation. Likewise, in the attack animation, he's not really attacking with the weapon itself, is he? He's simply using it to direct a ribbon (which in itself is missing in the illustration), the part that is actually the attack. If the weapon in the base E.G.O represents Daiyu, this could be a parallel to how Baoyu feels like he's merely directing Daiyu's body to attack, rather than being the one actually attacking.

The duality of Hong Lu IDs: There is a notable pattern among Hong Lu IDs, and that is the focus on his attitude to violence. When he's in a situation where he's obedient towards his Family, he's either uninterested in violence, bored of it, or otherwise given no other choice but to use it as a reprieve from boredom. However, when he's in a situation where he's disconnected from his Family or otherwise questioning the status quo, he's shown to not only be much more aggressive and violent, but to outright enjoy it. With the context of Hong Lu being composed of two people, this duality could represent each of his components - the obedient and violence-averse being more Baoyu-like, while the questioning and violence-favoring being more Daiyu-like.

So, there's a bunch of stuff that would be given new meaning under the premise of this theory being true. But now, what about the future? What would this theory mean for the themes and ending of Canto 8?

The Resolution

I believe this is how the Daiyu-Baoyu theory will affect Canto 8.

At some point, whether before or during the Canto, it will be revealed that Hong Lu is both Daiyu and Baoyu. There will be an attempt to seperate the two, perhaps to implant Baoyu into a more fitting, more Jia Family-approved Vessel. Perhaps because the 'arranged marriage' from DOTRC could be adapted into something more... let's say Fear and Hunger kind of marriage rather than traditional marriage.

This will leave Hong Lu to be returned to their state as Daiyu, who will be revealed to be a very different person to what the Sinners knew Hong Lu as. There is a non-zero chance that Daiyu will be unable to hear Dante or be revived by them due to the one who signed the contract being Baoyu, and so they could end up acting as an uncontrollable ally unit not unlike Xichun in Canto 7.

The climax would then be Daiyu and Baoyu reuniting and being unwilling to part with each other again, even for the sake of returning to being the fake persona that is Hong Lu, leading to a potential duo boss fight/distortion boss fight/duo distortion boss fight.

The ending would be the two of them deciding to embrace their new identity as Hong Lu and truly becoming one, discarding their pasts and the selves that had been forced on them by the Jia Family. This ending would have a twofold meaning regarding how it connects to the DOTRC adaptation.

One - it would be a direct parallel to the ending of DOTRC where Baoyu leaves to become a monk. By becoming Hong Lu and discaring his previous identities, he'd be leaving behind the earthly attachments inherent to being Baoyu and Daiyu and become spiritually whole.

Two - it would be a reflection of the major theme of DOTRC, that being "Truth becomes fiction when the fiction's true. Real becomes not-real when the unreal's real." Hong Lu, as a person, is a 'fake' persona used by the 'real' Baoyu and Daiyu. However, by discarding those two identities and deciding to just be Hong Lu, the fiction of his existence becomes the truth, while his former real selves become not real.

Conclusion?

I could honestly just keep going with this post, but I think I'm going to stop myself here before I'm forced to find out what tumblr's character limit on posts is. Believe me, I was trying to be brief, and still this post is. This fucking long.

I hope this explains why this theory has been the subject of my brainrot for the past however long, and why I feel like it's surprisingly plausible despite being as deranged as it is.

Godspeed and godbless, I have classes tomorrow and I'm spending my time on this.

a thought occurs: ch109 is a reverse murder-mystery. Just not the usual way.