Talk About A Coincidence!

Requested by @paarsetulpen

Beautiful ❤️

FF7 Remake ~English/Japanese Comparison Master Post

I have been noting the differences between the official North American English language version of FF7R and the Japanese game. Translation choices are guided by cultural differences and the media tropes, audience expectations, and localized needs that shape the narrative. These small differences can significantly impact how we understand characters and their relationships. I love sharing my observations and guesses with other fans!   I think I am pretty unbiased since this is my first real encounter with the story (husband played the OG so I know a little bit) but know these are still my thoughts on it. I am overall disengaged from the surprisingly vitriolic ship wars. Pls don’t drag me into that.     I have made 10 posts at least 20 about it so far. The earlier ones are a bit sloppily done but as I’ve continued, the later posts got more streamlined and easier to read. Sorry for typos. I’ll update this master post occasionally when more posts come. If you are so moved, there is a link to send me a cup of coffee because I can only really do these late at night.   

20. Tifa’s resolution 19. “You can’t fall in love with me” 18. EVERYONE DIES 17. Interlude: CLOUD AND TIFA LUUURRRVVEE EACH OTHER - I only did a few and they are somewhere in the comments.  16. Untranslatable weird speech things: the case of Reno 15. Untranslatable weird speech things: the case of Wedge ~Shameless request to please buy me coffee. I don’t have a patreon 14. Hide and Seek with Tifa and Aerith, aka Chicks before Dicks  13. We’ve got a bodyguard, don’t forget. MINE. 12. HOHEEEEEEEEE + video 11. Pretty boys, homely girls, nailed it, and is Cloud…kind of stupid? 

~~Pause for a Reeve appreciation post~~ 10: Someone’s got a bit of a crush 9. That’s the perfect type for you I’d say. 8. Is Tifa, like, your girlfriend? 7. Aerith’s personality differences.  6. Not a “Merc” and other observations.  5. You and everybody and their mother.  4.5 note: A great Japanese youtuber compares the Ghost scene. 4. Tifa, the protector. 3. Lovers used to give these when they were reunited… 2. Flirting at the bar. 1. Alone at last.

A couple of interesting references

Toward the end of Chapter 8 of the Remake - like in the OG - Cloud sneaks away from Aerith's house headed to Sector 7, but Aerith is already waiting for him at the border to Sector 6.

This scene is very important since it's the one where Aerith willingly decides to follow Cloud, the moment that sets into motion her adventure and that will lead her to her destiny.

Fans immediately noticed that the way Aerith appears from behind the debris and the way she walks away recall what happened in the dream that Cloud had in the OG, where Aerith told him she was going to stop Sephiroth alone.

When she starts walking Cloud has one of his headaches, the camera focuses on his right hand (the one he stretched trying to stop her in the dream) and he sheds a tear.

This seems to be another omen of her death - probably it is -, like he previously had at the church, but this short sequence hides also another compilation reference that probably most of western players didn't notice, since it went lost in the English localization:

When Aerith approaches Cloud saying "Because I'm not sick of you yet!", in Japanese she uses a sentence that she already used in Crisis Core with Zack: "I'd like to spend more time with you"(the comparison between the two Japanese lines will sound clearer here). Also her pose, with her hands behind her back, is the same of Crisis Core, and I can't say to what extent it is relevant in this scene, since the Zack-Cloud relation is often matter of debate, but Zack took the note with his right hand too.

I don't think this is casual. At first I thought it was just another Zack-Aerith references like many others during Chapters 8 and 9, but I think this one has a deeper meaning:

Aerith gave Zack the note before he left for Nibelheim, and she apperared in Cloud's dream when she left to go to the Forgotten City:

in both cases it was the last time the characters "spent" time together

in both scenes they promised to go back after they accomplished their missions (very Loveless)

and in both cases...they never came back again.

Aerith's decision to go alone to summon Holy led her to her death, and Zack's decision to go back to Midgar after reading the note - the most dangerous place for him - led him to his death too.

I can't say if this correlation will be relevant in the future parts of the Remake but I thought it was noteworthy, especially because it links up so well with the leitmotiv of Reunion.

1/3 Compliments for your posts, I totally agree. If that, to some extent, is a common tendency of every fandom, it can be said that FFVII one is overly crazy. Zack is another good example of how people try to force the most desperate excuses to deprive a character of its importance because they don't like the consequences of his role.

2/3 "He's just an NPC with insignificant screetime! His scenes are even optional!" So why SE decided to make him the protagonist of a standalone game of the compilation? How can it even be labelled as fan service if he is so irrelevant in the first place? It doesn't take much to realize that without Zack FFVII can't even start in the first place, but before Remake a consistent part of fans even denied CC canonicity. And some are still not convinced.

3/3 It's funny because I've never seen anyone complaining about Cid's behaviour toward Shera but tons of scenes and quotes taken out of context to prove that Zack, Tifa or Aerith are mean characters and should be cut out of the picture. That's pretty self-explanatory of how much people tend to insert themselves in one of the two romantic sub-plots and take it personally, ignoring that neither is the core of the story but they both play a role in the plot. SE really has a tough nut to crack!

They most certainly do, and I would like to believe they aren't taking into consideration all this ridiculous discourse, and just concentrate on their writing. Maybe it helps that, at least from my observation, the JPN side of the fandom doesn't go on about the same stuff we do—at least from these extreme angles.

Zack is another interesting one, and at that point I'd have to have someone define what they exactly mean by "fan-service". The way people view this too, can be strange. Saying Zack was a plot device in the first OG is pretty accurate role-wise, despite being an important one, and I always considered CC to be for the purpose of making up for his characterization by digging into who he was and what his story did for the series. Pretty standard prequel, in this way, with the creative freedom to add more layers not previously known. This is...pretty typical for many franchises. I always felt like, CC is what would've been reminiscent in the OG if the issues of his late development (as a character) and focus in the story had more time. No matter if someone likes it or not, the objective understanding still comes from recognizing its place in continuity and the impact it has on the wider narrative of FFVII—Zack's character literally is written to do this. It's just storytelling. Something that does this is no more fan-service than anything else that's created for an audience and actually has an importance to the story. If CC is fan-service, so is OG, AC (or the separate Complete version), or the Remake. Even if you find it "unnecessary", Zack's character and his story don't abide by this connotation.

Which like, that starts a conversation on the whole "need" ideal that fans have about supplemental materials or extended storytelling, which sort of connects to this based on the "This character or story isn't needed for THIS story!". The issue being that, I think a person's "point of refence" of necessity is off—what they're basing the need for and to. Zack, and all the previously mentioned posts for Tifa, Kairi, Kristoff, etc.—it's like I said, someone an just have a perspective that can write off characters, but that's literally just changing the story, and coming from a point of reference that is just off.

We shouldn't always base an entries "need" in totality only from a reference point of a previous work. This just doesn't always equate to the value of said entry. Any sequel that isn't following a cliffhanger of its predecessor can be deemed "unnecessary" then, by this logic, but obviously it would be beyond trivial to mark any story that continues to extend the storytelling of a world and its characters as this for....what, exactly? To just put it down? The funny thing about CC, is that it IS necessary if your intention is to understand more about that missing slate of the story and to understand Zack's character in more depth.

Angeal always bothers me and idk how to word it!! Not sure your take on why or what you see with his character in general but I'd love to know bc this has been bothering me forever

so this got. a little more heated than i thought it would. sorry anon lmao

angeal stans this is your warning!! nice things are not said under the cut

so angeal exists in the narrative to be the dead mentor figure so we feel bad for zack and to infodump a little about his and genesis's pasts in the beginning so genesis gets a modicum of development as well. he also does some obligatory passing on of his legacy of soldier honor and morals to zack so zack has a clear model to follow and we as the audience can see his growth from somewhat careless and cocky to a little more serious and driven after angeal's death. on a deeper level, angeal also exists as a counterpoint to genesis's and sephiroth's respective models of heroism, where (simply put) angeal's is staying true to a code of honor to protect the people, genesis's is being recognized by the public for heroic deeds, and sephiroth's is manufactured success and perfection in performance

and like, crisis core shows that each of these models doesn't work. in the case of angeal, his rigid adherence to a code of honor to remain morally pure leads to his downfall. especially with the circumstances of his death-- like, death before dishonor is an incredibly strong concept in japanese culture, but it's pretty clear in cc that what angeal does in forcing zack's hand is somewhat backwards in logic. like, where was this revelation that he was hurting people back in the middle of the war with wutai where he was literally destroying people’s villages and livelihoods vs. now when the war is literally over and he isn’t actively hurting people?? but. whatever. sure, let's assume this was the turning point that finally made him realize what he’s done in the past

but even then he doesn't solve anything, he doesn't try to help anyone despite that being basically his motto, he just gives up because he himself doesn't fit into his strict worldview-- if he isn't the hero he thought he was, then he must be a monster, and he can't be tolerated to exist. angeal quite literally shatters under the weight of his morals

there's also the issue of the story from his childhood, which is supposed to show his character as honorable à la "honor can exist in unconventional ways" but. it fails to establish him as such imo. it's like, you're too proud to accept help so you're gonna steal from people instead? and not even the rich people because one of them is your friend?? like there's a difference between being honorable and being too proud, especially if part of your motto is to protect others. it feels like a weird blend of capitalist work ethic + robin hood-esque imagery while missing the part where robin hood didn't actually steal solely because he was poor, he stole because fuck rich people and so he could help other poor people. you know. by giving them the handouts angeal is apparently too proud to accept

he's just a huge hypocrite, which makes his lectures on honor and pride feel all the more sanctimonious. he tries so hard to keep the moral high ground that the moment he comes up against something that actually tests his self-perception, he just shrugs and goes "guess i'll die". i feel like that was the entire point of how crisis core wrote him, especially given the role the buster sword plays in symbolizing his honor (aka use it or lose it), but the overall fandom tends to treat him as objectively the best of the firsts, like this bitch didn't just nosedive into drama queen territory just as quickly as the other two. i think @ladylokiofmidgard put it best when she said he has the moral backbone of a chocolate éclair

like angeal is as bland as white bread but somehow manages to singlehandedly piss me off more than any other character in the compilation. i could go on more but this post is already too long as it is

anyways. angeal was wrong. the buster sword is a metaphor for his failure to uphold his own philosophies relative to the people who inherited it. fight me

IT CLICKED

I GOT IT

Rufus sees the Whispers in Shinra HQ because he’s in the process of exterminating greater Avalanche.

This is why Rufus’s reaction to and relationship with the Whispers seems so odd. They’re helping him. And he doesn’t realize it. Rufus is the only character whose reaction to seeing the Whispers for the first time isn’t to try to fight them or run away – rather, he actually moves towards them and is so entranced by them that he’s still staring out the window long after they’re gone.

Let’s back up.

In Before Crisis (which appears to be canon-ish for the Remake, considering the reference to the assassination attempt on President Shinra and the greater organization of Avalanche as a whole), Rufus was Avalanche’s inside contact. He provided them with information on Shinra and funded their terrorist campaign.

In the Remake, Mayor Domino refers to himself as being Avalanche’s man on the inside, which initially made a bunch of Rufus fans (myself included) scratch their heads a bit. But when looking closer, it becomes pretty clear that Domino is working with Rufus to fund/assist Avalanche and undermine Papa Shinra’s administration.

However, also established in Before Crisis is the detail that Rufus never cared about Avalanche as an organization nor the fate of the planet itself. He was simply using them as pawns to murder and usurp his father.

As we can see from Rufus’s introduction, once Papa Shinra is dead, Rufus doesn’t need Avalanche anymore. He shoots down the Avalanche extraction chopper and steps onto the scene in order to personally declare face-to-face that the alliance is off.

So, the order of events is:

1. Rufus puts the call out to Avalanche HQ to storm Shinra HQ and flush out the president.

2. Rufus calls Domino and tells him to assist Avalanche once they get to the building so that they can remain unseen in their journey to the top floors.

3. Cloud, Barret, and Tifa coincidentally happen to show up first, unaware of the larger plot about to take place. Domino assists them on their ascent, assuming that they’re the ones to carry out the mission at hand.

4. Rufus calls Tseng and mobilizes the Turks. Reno and Rude go to pick up Rufus, who is likely planning on pulling the trigger on his father himself while Avalanche causes chaos and creates an opening to do so.

5. Aeris is rescued.

6. Larger Avalanche (along with Wedge) arrive on scene to carry out the assassination attempt.

7. Rufus arrives on scene and very smugly makes it a point to personally give the order to arrest who he believes to be Avalanche operatives who are only there in the first place by his orders. Boss fight occurs.

8. Meanwhile, Tseng is searching for President Shinra, unaware that he’s already dead at this time.

9. Cloud, Barret, Tifa, Aeris, and Red XIII make their escape from Shinra HQ.

10. The Whispers surround the Shinra tower.

11. Rufus enters the Executive Suite and sees the Whispers for the first time.

12. Tseng gets a call from someone (presumably Reno) and is pleased by what he hears. He tells Rufus that “The men are on standby.” To which Rufus responds, “Bring them in.”

13. Rufus gives Reno and Rude the order to exterminate every Avalanche operative still on site.

Now, I realize that 12 and 13 are a little bit vague, and you might be wondering how I arrived at number 13 at all.

The important thing to understand that the main narrative tool that FF7R utilizes is misdirection. Rufus’s line of “bring them in” is just one example of many. After he says this, the scene cuts back to Cloud & co. on the highway as Shinra soldiers are deployed after them, so the immediate assumption is that Rufus just gave the order to dispatch soldiers to detain the party. 

However, if this line was truly in reference to the pursuit of Cloud & co, then Tseng’s phone conversation no longer makes sense. We hear him say, “I see. Very good.” This reaction isn’t internally consistent with the idea that someone has just told him that the party has escaped.

More likely, Tseng was getting an update from Reno that the chopper has been parked and they’ve returned to HQ. “The men are on standby” – Reno and Rude are back and awaiting orders. Rufus then gives Tseng the order to have Reno and Rude come into the office. There, the order is given to take out Avalanche.  This also explains why Reno and Rude are missing from the final sequence in which Rufus takes the throne – they’re still likely out and about in the aftermath of the mass murder they just performed.

The Whispers are non-hostile to Rufus, and he seems completely distracted and mesmerized by them. He can see them, but they’re not impeding his progress in any way.

Avalanche HQ are not supposed to be at Shinra HQ. This is not how the original script/”destiny” plays out. So, by giving the order to hunt down and kill every Avalanche operative, he’s actually doing the bidding of destiny/The Whispers, even if he doesn’t realize it. He’s basically doing the Whispers’ job for them.

So when the order comes, the Whispers decide to help out and encircle the Shinra building in order to ensure that none of them escape.

Knowingly or not, the Whispers serve to establish the bounds of Rufus’s villainy and mercilessness. His inaugural speech about ruling the world through fear is no longer necessary, as he’s just turned Shinra HQ into a locked-down prison for the “heroic” team, in which he orders and orchestrates a bloodbath.

Ahhh yes! That ending scene with Zack was fantastic, what a range of emotions the first time I watched it. Confused, worried I’d see a sad ending again, confused again, dawning comprehension, then a ton of exciting and wtf combined. I think I’m still stuck in that last one, haha.

Thank you for putting in words what I was too sleepy to express last night! Yes, when I saw the last stand I feared I would have finished the game in tears like I did when I played CC, but I ended up in tears anyway when I saw him alive. This ending is so full of hope, expectations and misteries. I can't understand people who disliked it.

That hug hitted home so hard! Such a big load of emotions: need of comfort, trust, that "inexplicable something" buried inside Cloud that lead him to hug her... I really hope the devs will spend a scene in the future to show how he will re-evaluate this moment after regaining his true-self.

Barret is absolutely the cherry on top of this game and his English VA can't be prized enough for his amazing job. I don't know how he sounds in JP but the English one made a great job in conveying the essence of the character even in the perspective of non-native English players. I found him so grotesque in the OG but now I can't help but love him. His interactions with other characters are great but, yes, his bond with Marlene is priceless.

My very second favourite part of the game is Aerith rescuing Marlene (rescuing Betty, encouraging Wedge to save the Sector 7 citizens, all the scene), but your moments are close ones. There are so many beautiful well-developed and emotional scenes and so much attention to details that it's even difficult to establish a ranking. Otherwise we wouldn't be here after a year still noticing&analyzing new details :)

What are your expectations for the Intergrade? Since the devs had complete freedom about the setting of this episode I hope we could see the Sector 7 fall from the upper plate perspective and I'm really looking forward for any reference to Denzel.

happy ffviir 1 year anniversary! 🎉🎊🎈 do you have a moment or detail from the remake that's still your favorite even a year later?

Hi Hartofhearts!

Happy first year anniversary to you too!

Well there are MANY moments I really love about this first part of the Remake, but if I have to choose just one, I definitely take this scene, and all that follows it until the end. 

This is by far the most unexpected and most welcomed change of the Remake and it still gives me goose bumps! I can’t wait to see where this will lead, I really hope he could be reunited with Aerith this time…!

What about you??

FFVIIR Yuffie DLC after credit’s scene

****MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW****