A Couple Of Interesting References

FFVII Remake Easter Eggs and compilation continuity - Part 4: DIRGE OF CERBERUS

[Includes: DoC Online Multiplayer - DoC - DoC Lost Episode]

SHINRA’S DARKEST SECRET

In Chapter 3, Weimar tells Cloud and Tifa of the rumors about undregroud secret labs. In Chapter 13, after the plate fall, Cloud, Barret and Tifa enter this mysterious underground facility full of monsters and Mako tanks.

7R: There’s a crazy story about a Shinra research lab hidden right beneath our feet - under the slums.

DoC: Deepground soldiers. (...) The shadow of the Shinra company, constructed by the former president and completely hidden from the rest of the world. (...) His goal was to create an army of superhuman warriors - not once letting morality interfere.

  INTERMISSION

During Intermission it is not only confirmed the existence of Deepground but Yuffie and Sonon fight against some soldiers in their DoC uniforms.

Nero: "Team"? Fool. There are no "teams" in Deepground.

Yuffie: Deep...ground?

Nero: The place where my brother and I like to play.

WEISS AND NERO

After getting to Deepground Yuffie and Sonon had to fight against one of the Deepground Tsviets, Nero. Meanwhile Weiss was added as a boss fight in the Shinra Combat Simulator. 

VITUAL REALITY

The overall concept of Shinra using VR simulators comes from DoC. In particoular, in DoC Multiplayer SOLDIERs and Tsviets used to train exclusively in VR arenas. 

MOOGLE YUFFIE

During the first half of Intermission Yuffie wears a tattered cloak with a moogle hood. This piece of clothing appeared for the first time in Dirge of Cerberus. 

I have written and rewritten the Gast Post wayyy too many times and put more time thinking about it then it's worth so now here it is, just so it will begone from my drafts, here's my beef with Gast Faremis and the two big narrative issues that make thinking about him fill me with rage

Also I'm gonna put a TW for grooming here actually because Gast's lack of a canon age makes it seem like he might have met Ifalna when she was very young and they have a weird power imbalance thing going that I kind of talk about

The Jenova Project

It is basically impossible to make a sound judgement on Gast's ethics because we have no idea when he left the Jenova project or really why beyond that he knew he misidentified Jenova. I know one of the ultimanias said he felt guilt/remorse. But to be quite frank, until they show this remorse in-game it means nothing to me. It's one thing to reveal details like ages in the ultimanias, but Gast is a far too critical player in the plot for his characterization to be getting done secondhand in supplemental materials. Do not get me started on how he never shows up in Dirge. They just... ignore him a lot of the time, which is really weird since his discovery of Jenova is the plot catalyst for the entire series.

Also, I've noticed people tend to passively talk about him like he's *the good one* on the team or that he would have saved Sephiroth from Hojo. I'm not really sure where this comes from? Sephiroth speaks highly of him, but i don't trust Seph to be an accurate judge of character when it comes to Gast. Sephiroth would have been, at the very vert latest, probably around 4 when Gast left the company. If he even remembers Gast at all, his memories are not gonna be a full picture of what the man was like. Besides that, I think it's incredibly likely Sephiroth has a mystical, idealized version of Gast in his head, because Gast is someone who could, in theory, give him the answers about his origins Hojo refuses to. Hojo also probably shit talks Gast if be ever comes up, which would only make him more appealing to Sephiroth. Gast is not Hojo. He has cleared the bar past literally the worst person Sephiroth has ever met. It is akin to praising a candle for being able to burn compared to a crumpled, broken, wet match. Gast being less abhorrent then Hojo doesn't mean he was a good person.

I think people also tend to automatically assume Gast was a good person bc he's Aerith's dad, but being a good person isn't genetic. He didn't have the opportunity to be a father to her for more then about 3 weeks. That's not his fault, obviously, but it means he had no hand in raising her, so him being her father really isn't indicative of anything outside of him being involved with Ifalna, which we will get to in a second.

Honestly, it seems to me like Gast was ambivalent to Sephiroth at best. Remember that a perfect weapon was not what they were designing Sephiroth to be; they wanted him to be an Ancient. Of course, Jenova is not one, meaning that in terms of achieving its original goal, Gast's goal, Project S was a failure from the outset. I can't help but wonder if Gast saw Sephiroth that way, or else as a horrible mistake, especially considering that after leaving the company and abandoning Sephiroth (and maybe Lucrecia depending on who left first) to Hojo, Gast on his own time achieves his original goal of making an Ancient, by fathering Aerith. Speaking of...

Ifalna

We know from the guides that Ifalna was 29 when she died. Aerith was 7, meaning Ifalna had her at around 22. If Gast was around Hojo' age, he would've been in his early 30s when Sephiroth was born. Sephiroth is 5-6 years older then Aerith, which would put him at around his mid thirties when he had a child with Ifalna. If Gast left the project shortly after Sephiroth was born or during Lucrecia's pregnancy, he might have met Ifalna as early as her being 18. I sincerely do not believe the devs want to imply their relationship was predatory. I honestly don't think all that much thought has been put into it at all, and while it's reasonable to sideline it since it's not the most urgent bit of lore, this sidelining makes trying to figure out what their dynamic was a nightmare.

Apparently the ultimanias are contradictory about whether the two of them met at Shinra or outside of it. The only time we've ever seen the two of them together was the Icicle Inn tapes, wherein their interactions seem mostly professional until the last tape. In this last tape, the dev's clumsy way of showing that these two are in a relationship was to have Ifalna start to address him as Professor, then correct herself and call him 'honey' instead, which is a hell of a Freudian slip for her to make, given that this tape takes place almost a month after the birth of their daughter.

Again, I think this was just a very awkward blinking neon sign hung up in order to quickly convey THESE TWO WERE IN LOVE, but if you take it at face value, it is strange at best and downright chilling at worst. Gast was the leader of the Make An Ancient Baby project, and when he realized he didn't actually make an Ancient, he left the project and went and had a baby *old school style* with the last Ancient while she was undergrad age. It is fully possible he and Ifalna did have real feelings for each other, but that context with the age gap just makes it... eugh. And it's not like they had a professional friendship and he just served as a sperm donor for Ifalna because she wanted to start repopulating her species or smth. She calls him by a pet name, they are in some kind of romantic entanglement.

At this point I don't think the devs have put nearly as much thought towards this as I have, we're probably just supposed to assume they were happy together because it makes Gast dying more tragic. But them neglecting this relationship leaves it uncomfortably unclear. For example, because they don't think about this relationship a lot, Aerith never mentions her mom telling her about her dad, which is very easily read as Ifalna not wanting to tell her daughter about Gast. That would just be because it hurts Ifalna to talk about his death, but... she also told Aerith stories about the Ancients, which must have also been painful since they were the last two, stuck in a lab away from nature. We know Ifalna gets emotional when talking about the Cetra, she gets worked up seemingly to the point of crying while talking about Jenova in the interviews. The only explanation I can see for why she wouldn't want to talk about Gast if they were happy toghether was that Hojo might punish her if she did. (Worth noting i have traces of two pasts but haven't gotten to reading it yet, she might mention him in there but again supplemental materials, Aerith has never knce mentioned a dad in the actual games)

If the goal is that we are supposed to see Gast as a bad or even morally compromised person who went straight after leaving the company, that's perfectly fine, but everything about him is so muddy that I genuinely can't tell what to make of him. Hojo and Hollander we're clearly supposed to hate, and Lucrecia has settled herself pretty comfortably in the "did fucked up things but has since paid for it" niche, but Gast is just... here. Floating around in the back of the narrative, not even really haunting it because his main contribution as the guy who discovered Jenova gets usurped by Hojo being the one to spread its cells. His other main contribution is being Aerith's bio dad, and she has never once seemed to give it any thought. The only person in the modern era who seems to give a rat's ass about his role in everything is Sephiroth, for like 2 seconds during his meltdown at Nibelheim before he's back to huffing the mommy issue fumes. He is just... such a bizarre, frustrating nothingburger, and I desperately hope they rectify it in remake 3.

AERITH & TIFA CG IN BRAVE EXVIUS

One thing about fandom culture is that it sort of trains you to interact with and analyze media in a very specific way. Not a BAD way, just a SPECIFIC way.

And the kind of media that attracts fandoms lends itself well (normally) to those kinds of analysis. Mainly, you're supposed to LIKE and AGREE with the main characters. Themes are built around agreeing with the protagonists and condemning the antagonists, and taking the protagonists at their word.

Which is fine if you're looking at, like, 99% of popular anime and YA fiction and Marvel movies.

But it can completely fall apart with certain kinds of media. If someone who has only ever analyzed media this way is all of a sudden handed Lolita or 1984 or Gatsby, which deal in shitty unreliable narrators; or even books like Beloved or Catcher in the Rye (VERY different books) that have narrators dealing with and reacting to challenging situations- well... that's how you get some hilariously bad literary analysis.

I dont know what my point here is, really, except...like...I find it very funny when people are like "ugh. I hate Gatsby and Catcher because all the characters are shitty" which like....isnt....the point. Lololol you arent supposed to kin Gatsby.

“Tifa said to take you home, kid.”

responsible adults

FFVII Remake Easter Eggs and compilation continuity - Part 3: ADVENT CHILDREN

     KIDS

Feeling close to death, Biggs asks Cloud to take care for him of the orphans of the Leaf House. Cloud refuses implying that he doesn’t like kids. Anyway, not even one year later he will take care of both Marlene and Denzel, two orphans.

     SPARE GLASSES

In the movie Rude broke his glasses during the fight with the Remnants but he immediately replaced them with another pair. The same happens in the Remake in Chapter 8, during the fight against Cloud and Aerith. 

     AERITH’S CHURCH

The design of Aerith’s church is almost the same of the one showed in Advent Children.

     AERITH AND MARLENE

Just before the plate fall, Aerith goes to Seventh Heaven to save Marlene and the two share a sort of mysterious interaction. Despite having known her for so little, after two years Marlene will still be very fond of Aerith. She’ll have her same hairstyle but she’ll also be “special” since she’ll be the only kid not affected by Geostigma and she’ll perceive Aerith’s presence during the battle against Sephiroth. 

     SEVENTH HEAVEN

On the wall of Seventh Heaven there are some AC references: a picture of the future Seventh heaven and a blurred photo of future Barret, Marlene, Nanaki and Cait Sith.

     GEOSTIGMA

When Cloud met Sephiroth in the drum, he grabbed his left arm in pain while being mentally tortured - the same arm that will be affected by Geostigma.

     MOTORCYCLE FIGHT

The motorcycle fight with Roche recalls the chase on the highway of Midgar-Edge with the Remnants.

     WHISPERS

In Chapter 18 the Whispers mysteriously started cyrcling around the Shinra tower the same way the corrupted Lifestream will do in Advent Children.

When Sephiroth delivere the line “Destiny comes”, the Whispers started escaping in every direcion from the top of the Shinra tower. The same happens in the movie when the Lifestream finally erupts in the church. 

     VISIONS

During the battle against Whisper Harbinger, all the members of the group have some visions of the future, taken directly from the movie. 

     THE REMNANTS

Whisper Harbinger summons three “entities from a future timeline that have manifested in the present day", that the Ultimania confirms being manifestations of the Remnants:

Whishper Rubrum is a swordsman like Kadaj; 

Whisper Viridi is a pincher like Loz;

Whisper Croceo is a shooter. 

When they materialize Whisper Rubrum appears in front of Cloud and Whisper Viridi in front of Tifa (in the movie Cloud fought against Kadaj and Tifa against Loz).

After the battle the three entities merge together in Whisper Bahamut (in the movie the three remnants summoned Bahamut SIN).

     SEPHIROTH

Remake Sephiroth seems to have already experienced the events of Advent Children. In the original story he seemed to be indifferent about Cloud’s feelings, considering him no more than a numb clone, while in the Remake he started mentally tormenting him from the beginning.

Tell me what you cherish most, give me the pleasure of taking it away.

7R: You’re too weak to save anyone. Not even yourself. - You’ve failed again, I see.

AC: I’m not fit to help anyone. Not my family. Not my friends. Nobody.

     FINAL BATTLE

Sephiroth starts the final battle with the same gesture he used in the movie to summon the corrupted Lifestream.

He throws at the enemies debris of a destroyed Midgar like in the movie.

In both installments there’s a huge swirl of corrupted Lifestream in the sky.

Sephiroth shows one single black wing like he did in the final stages of the battle in Advent Children.

-

For the other parts refer to the masterpost

1/3 Compliments for your posts, I totally agree. If that, to some extent, is a common tendency of every fandom, it can be said that FFVII one is overly crazy. Zack is another good example of how people try to force the most desperate excuses to deprive a character of its importance because they don't like the consequences of his role.

2/3 "He's just an NPC with insignificant screetime! His scenes are even optional!" So why SE decided to make him the protagonist of a standalone game of the compilation? How can it even be labelled as fan service if he is so irrelevant in the first place? It doesn't take much to realize that without Zack FFVII can't even start in the first place, but before Remake a consistent part of fans even denied CC canonicity. And some are still not convinced.

3/3 It's funny because I've never seen anyone complaining about Cid's behaviour toward Shera but tons of scenes and quotes taken out of context to prove that Zack, Tifa or Aerith are mean characters and should be cut out of the picture. That's pretty self-explanatory of how much people tend to insert themselves in one of the two romantic sub-plots and take it personally, ignoring that neither is the core of the story but they both play a role in the plot. SE really has a tough nut to crack!

They most certainly do, and I would like to believe they aren't taking into consideration all this ridiculous discourse, and just concentrate on their writing. Maybe it helps that, at least from my observation, the JPN side of the fandom doesn't go on about the same stuff we do—at least from these extreme angles.

Zack is another interesting one, and at that point I'd have to have someone define what they exactly mean by "fan-service". The way people view this too, can be strange. Saying Zack was a plot device in the first OG is pretty accurate role-wise, despite being an important one, and I always considered CC to be for the purpose of making up for his characterization by digging into who he was and what his story did for the series. Pretty standard prequel, in this way, with the creative freedom to add more layers not previously known. This is...pretty typical for many franchises. I always felt like, CC is what would've been reminiscent in the OG if the issues of his late development (as a character) and focus in the story had more time. No matter if someone likes it or not, the objective understanding still comes from recognizing its place in continuity and the impact it has on the wider narrative of FFVII—Zack's character literally is written to do this. It's just storytelling. Something that does this is no more fan-service than anything else that's created for an audience and actually has an importance to the story. If CC is fan-service, so is OG, AC (or the separate Complete version), or the Remake. Even if you find it "unnecessary", Zack's character and his story don't abide by this connotation.

Which like, that starts a conversation on the whole "need" ideal that fans have about supplemental materials or extended storytelling, which sort of connects to this based on the "This character or story isn't needed for THIS story!". The issue being that, I think a person's "point of refence" of necessity is off—what they're basing the need for and to. Zack, and all the previously mentioned posts for Tifa, Kairi, Kristoff, etc.—it's like I said, someone an just have a perspective that can write off characters, but that's literally just changing the story, and coming from a point of reference that is just off.

We shouldn't always base an entries "need" in totality only from a reference point of a previous work. This just doesn't always equate to the value of said entry. Any sequel that isn't following a cliffhanger of its predecessor can be deemed "unnecessary" then, by this logic, but obviously it would be beyond trivial to mark any story that continues to extend the storytelling of a world and its characters as this for....what, exactly? To just put it down? The funny thing about CC, is that it IS necessary if your intention is to understand more about that missing slate of the story and to understand Zack's character in more depth.

A little WIP to celebrate

Aerith's birthday ❤️🌸🎉

Sephiroth:

Mass murderer

Child soldier

Lab experiment

Demigod

Enemy of humanity

Actual child

Monopoly host

High school student

Uninvited Smash attendee

Udon salesman

Impossible to take seriously anymore