And My Knees Bend Once More

The comments under the new HBO podcast episode with Ryan Condal can’t be fit in one post but here are some of them to give you the idea of what’s going on:

In a nutshell, this fandom learned not to hold back from GRRM himself.

"Based on Fire & Blood by George R.R. Martin".

No, not really, more like loosely inspired.

Guuys i'm back! And with the finest team black arguments in town! Today our contestant is:

"Alicent is an evil bitch for trying to expose Rhaenyra's sons as bastards, she could have gotten them killed!"

This one is surprisingly popular amongst the blacks, but unsurprisingly dumb. And I'll say why:

First things first, can someone explain to me the reason behind everyone's belief that the strong boys would be killed for this? They are just kids, who took no part in Rhaenyra's lies regarding their legitimacy. The poor children actually believed they were Laenor's sons! (Well except Jace but whatever.)

The real culprits in this mess are their parents, who willingly had them while being fully aware that if exposed on their bs they would be punished. The boys wouldn't be harmed at all, the worst thing that would happen to them would be losing the Velaryon family name, becoming Waters, and getting kicked off the line of succession.

Sucks for them but definitely better that a sword in the neck.

Speaking of their parents. Nyra would have to be disinherited for attempting to put her baseborns on the throne, cheating on her spouse and generally bringing so much shame to the royal family.

Sucks for her too, but you know, reap what you sow girl. You knew the risks.

The one who would actually face serious consequences would be Harwin, for sleeping with the princess and all. Normally he would probably have to be executed, but not before being given the chance to take the black, which he would definitely pick.

So yeah, sucks for you sure, but you keep your head, your dick, and only lose your inheritance. Lmao on second thought this would be a better alternative for him, Larys wouldn't have to kill him to inherit, and he'd be freezing his ass on the wall instead of burning it in Harrenhall.

Happy ending for Lord Strong.

And with that said Alicent would not be causing the deaths of innocent kids and would be able to secure the future reign of her son, so why exactly would that make her an evil selfish bitch? When has trying to avoid your children's inevitable execution at the hands of their half sister been a bad thing?

Team black only really wants Ali to bend over and die, just so that their feminist queen can take over lol. They unironically demand a woman to give up all her agency for someone else, how progressive of them.

Funny how I made this long ass post explaining how Nyra would have to face the consequences of her actions for once in her life but obviously this would only happen in an au where Vizzy was an actual competent king who didn't just live to give his "only child" all that she asks him to.

In our timeline he would just keep denying their bastardry and cutting tongues of all who disagree. And if it became impossible for him to deny reality anymore, he would immediately pardon Nyra and Harwin and legitimize the Strongs, then promptly pretend that nothing happened. It would be infuriating, but also hilariously bad ngl.

Yess I get you. I only got into asoiaf this summer while watching House of the Dragon. I was like "this is so good! It would be even more amazing if I knew more about this world!" And so in August I started reading. Honestly, I'd wanted to get my hand on these books for so long, that when I actually got them I couldn't put them down. I read all of Agot and Acok in a month! I still didn't have to worry about school so I stayed awake every night till 3 am reading, it was insane. But once September rolled around and I ordered Asos school started and so I slowed down a lot. It took me like 2 months just to finish it and I'm still only half way through Affc. Also I took a break from the main series books to read Fire & Blood now. Have been loving it thus far

only getting into asoiaf this year is so stressful. im so far behind everyone and the books are so heavy i cant just blitz through them like id like too

condal was like: you know d&d were so clever and smart

✨HI I’M THE PROBLEM IT’S ME✨

GUYS LOOK I'M A GENIUS

Alright. THATS IT. TIME TO LOSE MY SHIT.

The fact that Alicent is even ON THIS LIST is just flabbergasting. Now, to their credit, she’s second to last on this list (somehow worse than JAMIE LANNISTER?!). But still. Most evil characters?!

So, for fun, I thought I’d take a look at her characterization according to the writer of this list and rebut.

For the sake of organization, I will post the whole paragraph below and then go point by point:

“This one is fairly low on the rankings as it's not quite clear how villainous Alicent could become, with her moral standing leaning toward "complicated" rather than straightforward good or evil. However, she isn't quite the most innocent character in House of the Dragon either, with her manipulation of the grieving and ailing King Viserys, covering up her son's sexual crimes and fiendish proclivities and politically maneuvering an underhanded coup from her former best friend raising more than a few eyebrows about how far she'll go to protect her family.”

“Her manipulation of the grieving and ailing King Viserys”

First of all: Alicent was a 15 year old girl, the same age as Viserys’s own daughter, and his daughter’s best friend. Viserys is a full grown man and also the most powerful person in the entire kingdom as, you know, the king. Grief is a powerful thing and can certainly cause us to act contrary to our characters; however, that is not an excuse to have sex with and marry a child you have watched grow up alongside your own child.

Second of all: Alicent was not the master manipulator in this situation. She tried to fight back against the plan as much as she was capable as a girl and child, against her father who is the second most powerful man in the kingdom. The blame should go solely on Otto for this.

Blaming Alicent for “manipulating” Viserys when: she was a child forced to do this by her father, she fought against the idea, she was 15 and Viserys was a full grown man, and most of all HE WAS THE FUCKING KING, is crazy. Alicent had no power in this situation, nor did she want it. It was Otto’s idea and Viserys’s fault. Y’all blaming a child and acting like she’s an insidious master manipulator instead of criticizing the full grown man who had sex with her is crazy. Grief is no excuse. The men in this situation took advantage of Alicent. Not the other way around.

“Covering up her son’s sexual crimes and fiendish proclivities”

Where is the accountability on the deadbeat dad? Everyone keep blaming Alicent for how awful Aegon is. But nobody utters a word on how the other parent in this situation has done absolutely nothing. Viserys is also Aegon’s father (though this may be a shock to even Viserys himself seeing how neglectful and abusive he is to his children by Alicent). Viserys is the king. He has the power to implement whatever he wants but sits back and does nothing. But sure, Alicent is to blame because she’s actually involved and therefor her son being ruined is only her fault.

Alicent does her best at parenting Aegon and dealing with the shit he generates. What exactly could Alicent do to Aegon, a prince of the realm, to rectify the situation? Y’all are never happy when she does anything. When she disciplines Aegon, you scream she’s “abusive”. When she tries to compensate and fix the situation to the best of her ability, you scream that she’s enabling and covering up crimes. She will never win. And btw, she didn’t cover up for Aegon. Alicent listened to Dyana and tried to compensate for the pain. There’s literally nothing else she could do.

Y’all will blame Alicent for all the actions of the men in her life. Why not hold Aegon, the actual rapist, accountable for the situation. Not Alicent for trying to fix it. Because guess who’s not on the fucking list…AEGON. How will you penalize Alicent for trying to help fix the situation her son caused, but not penalize the man who actually committed the sexual crime? It reeks of sexism.

“Politically maneuvering an underhanded coup from her former best friend”

Ok. Let’s get this out of the way. Alicent believes Viserys said it was Aegon who is the heir. Stupid or not she does. But even without that Alicent does not stage a coup in some sort of villainous attempt to seize power for herself and away from Rhaenyra. She does it to protect her family. She has seen what happens when one of them is harmed, nothing. There will be nothing stopping team black from killing her or her children. This is a fight for survival. Not villainy. Fear.

Also it’s worth reminding that Alicent is the only one defending Rhaenyra’s life. Otto and other greens are perfectly fine with murdering Rhaenyra. Alicent is the only one fighting to protect her and counseling Aegon not to harm her.

In the end, Alicent is not a villain. She is the personification of how the patriarchy has abused women and torn them down in every way. Alicent has done her best to make everyone in her life happy. She has tried desperately to satisfy the selfishness and power-hungry nature of all those around her and reconcile everyone in her life. Alicent is not malicious or evil. She’s not seeking war or bloodshed. She wants her children and herself to be safe. Nobody should have “raised brows” at her defending herself and her family after she has spent decades being abused and seen more than enough proof that she is not loved or protected.

Villainizing Alicent can only happen if you’re willing to admit all this as well:

Grown men can never be held liable for having sex with teenage girls.

Teenage girls are at fault for the feelings adult men have for them.

Women are responsible for how their children turn out and men have no accountability in raising children or how they grow up.

Deadbeat father’s are ok, and the women left with the children are at fault for anything bad their kids do because they didn’t do a good enough job at being both parents.

Teenage mothers need to be perfect parents and can never make mistakes or have no idea what they’re doing because they, themselves are children.

Parents (specifically mothers) are responsible for the crimes of their children

Men shouldn’t be held accountable for rape. It’s their mom’s fault

And most of all: women who experience consistent trauma and abuse for years must hold it all in, accept further abuse with a smile, and “keep to their place”

Go ahead black fans. Admit this all. Admit you hate women and have deeply sexist beliefs. Then I’ll let you call her a villain :)

The champions of couples that should have been canon.

Soo today I made the terrible mistake to look for hotd art on pinterest, and came across a... particular comment that genuinely led me to question my faith in humanity.

Oh boy

Where do I even begin with this?

I thought team black was at least cool with Hel cause she's literally the most innocent character in the show (except for the kids obviously) but apparently some blacks have beef with her too now.

Cool, just great.

Haelena had the opportunity to go with her kids to Nyra.

I'm sorry but why? Why would she want to betray her family, her actual family? Rhaenyra never gave a flying fuck about her growing up, they have never even talked on screen! Why, why would she dump her siblings and her parents to join the cause of the woman who's side wants the people she loves killed? It makes no sense whatsoever. The blacks really don't understand that not everyone on Planetos loves Nyra like them and it shows.

Also if she really tried to betray her family for Nyra, I think Aegon, Ali and Aemond would have noticed Dreamfyre leaving King's Landing to go to Dragonstone and would have gone after her on Sunfyre and Vhagar.

And even if she somehow made it there, what do you think was going to happen? Rhaenyra was just going to welcome them with open arms as if she wasn't married to her "usurper"?

Best case scenario Nyra pretends to welcome them in and then Daemon sends his men to strangle Jaehaerys and Maelor as they sleep to get rid of Aegon's possible heirs.

I mean hell in the books Rhae put a fucking bounty on her 2 year old nephew's head that lead to his brutal death and they think she would just allow them to switch sides? Man these people really do not know how the game of thrones works.

She wanted to be queen

When? When has it ever been stated that Hel wants to be queen? When did we ever get a dialogue where she talked about how she couldn't wait for Aegon to inherit so she could replace her mom as queen?

Never

Haelena spends most of her time on screen making prophecies of the future, playing with bugs and dancing with Jace, when has her ambition for the crown been portrayed?

When have we seen any hint of her desire for power? Wtf

We're all dumb and sick bla bla...

Honestly after all this trash I've had to debunk being called names doesn't even phase me lmao. Go ahead, insulting others is always your last resort when you don't know how to admit that you're wrong.

We are blinded by the outside beauty of the characters and don't pay attention to who they really are

Ohhh the sweet sweet irony of this statement .

Team broccoli doesn't acknowledge their rapist usurper, their war criminal prince and their whore queen Alicunt! They're so nasty!

But Isn't Daemon suuper hot? God he is such an obedient malewife, Rhaenyra couldn't have chosen better! He's not a pedo guys I swear, the young silver haired virgins' ages were never confirmed, maybe they were at least eighteen! And he totally didn't pursue Nettles sexually, she was most likely his daughter!

What a joke