Reblogging because my response has become too long to put in the replies:
I don't think many people view the traitor primarchs as irredeemable, and I think the number among people who are well-versed in Horus Heresy lore is even smaller. They are, from the beginning, tragic characters. They certainly have their damning characteristics (namely hypocrisy), but they aren't really presented as irredeemable--we even have explicit statements regarding redemption for two of them (Big E says Mortarion can be redeemed in Godblight, and he outright forgives Horus in The End and the Death Vol III). I don't entirely agree with your interpretations, however. I don't think any of them are irredeemable (at least, not due to their own actions), but I think they miss some key details.
For all Angron claimed to be standing against oppression, he spent over a century expanding the Emperor's (extremely oppressive) regime. There's no moral purity shit here, either--Angron is pretty open about how he hates serving the Emperor even as he reduces worlds to ash in his name. What you said about Mortarion also applies to Angron, because of the Butcher's Nails. He was denied the chance to die with his family on Nuceria, and for the remainder of his life before daemonhood, the one thing he wants to do is die. And then Lorgar takes that away from him.
Mortarion's fall is because, first and foremost, he cared about his sons. Typhus brought the legion to Nurgle's garden, and infected them with the Destroyer Plague. Mortarion fell to Nurgle because he wanted to end their pain. Mortion is also a hypocrite. Like Angron, for all his claims of hating tyranny, he still expanded a tyrant's domain for a century and a half. (Corvus Corax is also on this list, but this is about traitor primarchs, not loyalist)
Magnus' guilt is very hotly debated among the community, and both sides have a point. On the one hand, he did the best thing he could with the information he had available. On the other hand, he was incredibly cocky, and did not have a concept of restraint. He believed he was in control, and he was too confident in that belief. (Side note: I despise the troupe of super powers being a stand-in for being queer (or any minority of any kind, for that matter)).
Fulgrim never said "fuck it, I'll have fun". His fall to Slaanesh was driven by his belief that, after killing Ferrus Manus, he was irredeemable. He's an addict; he isn't trying to have fun, he's trying to forget reality.
Everybody agrees that Big E mishandled Lorgar, and that's the most favorable interpretation for him. His argument on why he isn't a god is literal abuser language ("If I was a god, I'd use my psychic powers to force you all to kneel before me, like this" before using his psychic powers to force all of the Word Bearers to kneel before him). And all this ignores the shit Kor Phaeron did to him.
Horus is the spoiled rich white boy of the primarchs. He didn't fall because he was lost because dad was doing everything for him beforehand, he fell because he saw a vision of the future where he wasn't given the credit he thought he deserved. And then, like anybody else who grew up being told the world would be at their feet, he lost it. There's other issues as well, such as taxes (Terra wanted to impose heavy tithes on newly conquered worlds, which Horus opposed because it would cause them to rebel), but "gee, maybe I'm not ready" was never an issue.
Alpharius and Omegon believed that they knew the Emperor's plans better than he did, and threw in their lot with the traitors because they thought that if the traitors won, it would mean the end for Chaos.
Perturabo is someone who chose to suffer in silence and hope things would magically change. He never complains, and then is shocked when things don't go his way. I'm fairly sure he's also the primarch that people find the most relatable.
Konrad Curze was certainly mentally ill, and he was certainly denied the help and support that he needed, but I don't think he was abused because of it. He's also the kind of person who thought that if you publicly lynched enough jaywalkers, crime would go down, and that the Emperor sending an assassin to kill him because he committed treason and genocide was vindication for his belief that any crime warrants being skinned alive as a punishment.
They may not be irredeemable, but their hands are fare from clean.
I love how much of warhammer 40k is clearly a bunch of white dudes sitting around, thinking up the worst shit imaginable and going "thank god that could never happen to me, the cishet white guy"
angron is a one for one depiction of slavery, yet is painted as the bad guy for wanting to stand against oppression
mortarion is disabled and constantly has his decisions taken away from him by able bodied people only to be seen as moody and uncooperative
magnus is gay or trans or both. literally a guy blamed for something he was born with that he cannot control and told you're bad if you explore this part of yourself. also you're illegal now
fulgrim was actively encouraged to pursue perfection, despite never being good enough for others. he pushed any personal pleasure aside for an uncaring crusade and then is demonized for saying "fuck it, I'll have fun"
lorgar. also known as "this is why you don't abuse your kids"
horus is the golden child who's sent out into the world by himself only to find out Gee, Maybe I'm Not Ready because good ol dad did everything for him then told him "figure it out lol"
alpharius omegon are the autistic kids who don't understand why pops is doing this, maybe we should do things a little different than "blood soaked crusade"
perturabo is the burnout middle kid who did everything to impress his father only to be told "that's what's expected of you" who then got mad since acting out was the only way he got attention
konrad curze has a mental disorder. and is abused because of it
all of these characters were so close to being some of the best representation for minorities we could get in media only for gw to eat shit right at the finish line because they can't commit to an actual story. and it's amazing just how little these writers understand that the things they depict are all real things that people suffer through every day, and are demonized for every single day, especially when we are told these characters are irredeemable and should be destroyed, no questions asked
The funny thing is they've basically got the opposite stance on FSM. One says they can't exist ever, because lore, one says they do exist and always have, because lore.
Given Malcador's expression, that's exactly what just happened.
You know that time a couple invited the Queen of England to their wedding and she actually showed up? Imagine someone kinda jokingly inviting a Primarch or even Big E Himself and to their shock (and likely horror) they rsvp
Fucking hilarious. Big E could technically shapeshift into a less recognizable form but where's the fun in that? He arrives as he is, with Malcador as his plus one.
Call my tastes tacky if you like but your heart knows it’s true
Really the people arguing that are just trying to make Perturabo seem super important. They understand his need for praise as a need for others to not receive praise.
'oooohhh perturabo is the only one who actually did anything for the heresy' EXCUUUUUUUSE YOU.
LOOKING PRETTY IS 'DOING SOMETHING'. its for morale i'm keeping morale up.
Killing Ferrus literally drives him to suicide and is the tipping point that makes him fall.
Whenever he's sober, he is haunted by shame for what he did.
i am punished by love
Gee, ya think?
What next? Maybe you shouldn't have had directors directly working to undo what the director for the previous movie did?
Well, if there's a better time for me to start glazing Messages For Dad, it would be now. https://archiveofourown.org/works/21518860/chapters/51293176
That fic pretty much carries the Guillivraine ship in my eyes. It does tend to focus more on things in 30k than 40k, and it does have some other weirdness (a lot of heavily enforced gender roles in the Imperium, among other things), but it's very good, and it does take the ship seriously, and does explore the dynamics of such a relationship.
I think the reason why I dislike Guillivraine so much is because of the fact that, imo, the majority of the shippers don't really take the ship seriously themselves. Jokes about ships are fine and cool, but that's literally all I see about the ship. Not two people carrying the burden of trying to save their respective races from certain doom and feeling understood by the other. Not two people haunted and traumatized by their respective pasts. Not all the nuances and difficulties that would happen in the case of Human x Eldar relationship: diplomatic, platonic and especially romantic.
But nope. Its quite literally just a xenophilia joke to even the shippers themselves. I don't mind xenophilia jokes about human x alien relationships in 40k, but not when it's... just everything there is to the pair.
The Emperor's Children are a legion of femboys, of course they love cuddles.
Jokes aside, the background lore you gave is giving me inspiration for my Sons of the Phoenix army.
Continuation of this. PT 3.
@wolf-feathers12 you owe me fifty cookies and I’m gluten free
Imagine:
Titus is not quite new anymore to the watch. He’s slowly opening up to his squad mates but still is apprehensive. The mission has been a success and his squad wants to celebrate. They worked well together. But Titus does not wish to participate. He is bitter and mournful. News that the Primarch, Roboute Guilliman, had returned came through a few days ago. He was overjoyed at hearing that. But he doesn’t get to celebrate. Not when he’s dishonored his chapter. Not when he’s a black shield. Not when he can’t celebrate with his brothers. Before he can go to the training cages, a squad mate pulls him back, not taking no for an answer. He may have not told them his chapter and was using another name but they can tell how hard the last few days have been. Rather than celebrating they all huddle together, one with another. They miss each of their chapters and brothers. But they can find comfort in one another. It’s a moment of reprieve for the ex-captain’s broken heart.
As an Emperors’ children you are far more prone to cuddling than one might think. You were always underestimated. Many scoffed at your legion and chalked you up to pompous and egotistical men. Some of that was true but it didn’t make it hurt any less. Even more hurtful was the rejection of your Primarch. He didn’t want you or your brothers. He would not lead. You all were so desperate that some followed his clone when he showed up. You’re all scattered and trying what you can to make Fulgrim proud and have him return. Sometimes the rejection hurts so much you’ll curl up together in a pile. Pretending the weight is your Primarch, welcoming you back and saying that you’ve done well. That you’re worthy of his love. Those who are a part of war bands tend to be flock to bigger Astartes. Craving large and warm arms to wrap around you and say it’s okay. You’re not useless or worthless. You’re not an object or disposable.
Little known fact about Iron Warriors. You will cuddle anyone but your own legion. You’re so touch starved and refuse to ask for it due to how the chapter is. Cuddling your brothers? Revolting. Your Primarch won’t do it. Cold and refusing to show any weakness. But the minute any other traitor Astartes wants to start a pile or even a daemon or cultist request a hug, you’re there. You will not say anything and you’re definitely not saying no. You will just join in. If you see a cuddle pile you won’t ask, you’re suddenly in the middle. Emperor’s Children tend to like Iron Warrior’s for this reason. Might as well write “Free Hugs” on the back of their armor.
Newly joined Blood Angels feeling the psychic wound of their genefathers death. The looming of the red thirst and the chance of falling to the black rage. Their new brothers hold them in a large mass. Safe and warm to let them know that they’re not alone. They all feel the pain. They all mourn their father and fallen brethren. They all share it. So they share their hugs and affection.
Black Templars having massive sermons where the chaplain gets emotional and they all hold one another as they recite prayers. Hold each other up. Being strong like Dorn. Their Primarch isn’t here but they are here for each other.
Night Lords will cram themselves into dark and tight places to hide, entangled in each other’s arms. Their Primarch was mad and didn’t care for them. They have to care for each other. Everything they do is vile and violent. Except for this. Ever so gentle touches, protective embraces, the most tender of running hands through hair, gentle head butting. They are one of the most affectionate legions but only with each other. Silent as they relish in each other’s deep rooted sadness and hatred for themselves and solace of being with one another.
Lorgar finally has a moment of silence as the word bearers are escorted away from Monarchia by the Ultramarines. The emperor’s wrath had been fierce. He ends up dropping to his knees and pulling his closest son into an embrace. The others around him move forward without thinking. He pulls so many into his arms, has them laying their heads on his shoulders and back. Pressing their cheeks and foreheads to his own as he cries prayers he wrote. They were innocent! Loyal to him! He had done this for him! All that work! It was a gift! A tribute! He just burned it away! Killed them all. Rejected it. He’s in so much pain and anger but having his sons close eases it a bit.
Magnus clings to his sons. They don’t react as dust swirls within the armor. Foolish stupid Ahriman. He had managed to save the remaining few and bring them into the warp. Relieved that they all weren’t dead. This seemed worse though. He presses a kiss to the top of one’s helmet, praying that there’s some bit of conscious in there. Those that were unaffected are huddled behind him as his new wings caress them.
He wasn’t very affectionate. Mortarion had grown up shying away from it and he rarely indulged in cuddle piles. But after so many had died from horrid plagues and sicknesses, he had to pledge himself to Nurgle. It didn’t matter though. His sons were saved and himself. He had sat himself on the ground and big then to come forth. Some were nuzzled into his side, a few rested their heads on his torso. He was surrounded by his sons. Safe. He didn’t care what it had taken or what would happen next.
I barely write, but when I do AI is nowhere to be found.
a writing competition i was going to participate in again this year has announced that they now allow AI generated content to be submitted
their reasoning being that "we couldn't ban it even if we wanted to, every writer already uses it anyway"
"Every writer"?
come on
"It came to me in a dream" is more compelling credentials for a source than having asked ChatGPT.
Femboys, Warhammer 40,000, Battleships, and whatever else crosses my mind
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