I Do Want To Say A Thing I Missunderstood About DID When I Was "new To It" Was That I Thought All Repressed

I don't feel like theres a lot of resources or just even thought given to systems still like. In it. Still in, or adjacent to, the abusive or traumatic environments culpable for the development of this coping mechanism in the first place.

People will talk about persecutors and self-harmful system members, honestly, it feels like pretty much only in the context of a safe or safe-adjacent environment. And I understand. This community is really recovery focused, especially because a lot of people only realize they're a part of it because they're in recovery. When it's such a large portion of the community, its expected that they pay so much focus to it.

But when you are newly in this community, trying to work & communicate with other system members, regardless still having to heavily use that coping mechanism in the "maladaptive" way, and everyone is talking about you and your essential work & role in your system as "that one asshole trying to help, but little do they know the danger is gone and now all they are is a huge prick! ohohohoho! persecutor positivity 💖" it's just. It's honestly just infuriating.

For one! Does your persecutor feel safe or are you just telling them it is? Second. Some of us (persecutors) in the community still have to do our fucking jobs. I feel wonderful for people who can afford different coping mechanisms, whether they are still in the overwhelming environment or not. But some of us cannot. I can't always afford to have a caretaker making sure everybody feels fine and safe, sometimes I just need to get a trauma holder (who really can't fucking be here) out, and keep them out. And sometimes, that means you're gonna be fucking mean.

I just want some sympathy for who I am now. Not some fictionalized ideal of myself that "exists in the future", when this isn't needed anymore. I don't want the only narrative I hear about myself (and other persecutor types) to be that not only am I protecting myself in a "really bad way", but I have no place in this community or even my own system until I am no longer doing that. 'That', of course, being 'keeping my head above the water'. I want people to understand that the work I do can and does help, I'm valuable now, not just "in the future" when I've been fixed reformed into a protector.

I'm probably blowing this specific issue way out of proportion. I just want to feel like I'm not just automatically percieved as "that 'internally-abusive' POS every system has", especially when we as a system know it helps our situation overall, and people do seem to know that persecutors act that way for a reason. I am still experiencing that reason. Yes, there are... times when my expertise should not be employed, I do understand that I can cause unnecessary harm those times, and me and our caregiver get into spats about that kinda stuff. But as our caretaker he also understands that my "bad" actions are necessary sometimes, I am valuable even like this, (and also that he's lot better at gauging whether something needs to be persecuted away than I am, so it can be hard not to get carried away sometimes ime)..... but most importantly, he understands that I am as much affected by the situation we're in as anyone else, and right now, as long as its efficient in just getting us out the other side, anything goes.

I know I'm hurtful. I know that when we do get out of this, a lot of those resources on becoming a """""reformed""""" persecutor will suddenly probably be very helpful to me. But there has to be more sympathy (focus, resources, etc) for people in this community that still have to use these ("maladaptive") coping mechanisms. Constantly talking horribly about members of your community that are not only that way for a very understandable reason, but often have to keep being that way just so they don't end up dead, is. Not very productive or healthy for the overall community imo.

I don't really know what else to say. People still in this shit, people who need to use the skills they adapted regardless if its '"healthy", or pleasant, or palatable, we need this community. We are already here, and every single one of you has been in our place once, even if you were not aware of it. Please. Please have sympathy for me. My actions. Who I am. There is no other way I can be right now. Please.

Do you have sources for any of the things you've been talking about lately (the different programming types, hc-did, basically all of it)? I'd really like to do some more reading on this stuff but I've found a grand total of One book and most of the rest of the stuff is social media posts with no references, or references to other social media posts :(

Our top three “sources” are usually our system, late night conversations with irl friends, and social media.

The biggest issue isn’t actually a lack of resources, but a lack of good resources. Survivors put out material before they realize they got something wrong. The clinicians that work with us are the same, and the first generation of papers were shots in the dark and fear of lies that hadn’t been exposed yet.

There’ll be a lot about a big, networked Cult, usually either the Illuminati or Luciferians. Plenty of government conspiracy theories, references to projects that sometimes do get evidence. Then there’s the regular racism and Christian lens.

If you’re looking for overviews and definitions, they got taken down here are some good websites:

https://www.ra-free.org/complexities-of-identifying-ritual-abuse - not a lot of information, lists studies and professionals

https://endritualabuse.org/full-article-index/ - lots of good articles, some really helpful, others had me cocking my head

https://www.cherylrainfield.com/articles-cult-abuse/ - more about the author than the issue, some useful links on that page

There used to be more. Two others, one about spin programming and one about colors, are still up, but a little out there. You’ll know if you see them

Some books with more details. Not good books, just books:

https://ia803208.us.archive.org/34/items/BecomingYourself.Miller/BecomingYourself.Miller.pdf - the single best thing I’ve found and I still have complaints, this version is unformatted but free

https://ia803400.us.archive.org/28/items/chainless-slaves-annotated/Chainless%20Slaves%20-%20Annotated.pdf - I didn’t like it, lots of certain language for iffy concepts, has a list of programs and alter roles

https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=89e823aedc9c69ffd8d715757c86878af27c37c9 - not a fan, also lots of funky ideas and hate-based rhetoric, has lists of programs and cues

There are lots of survivor autobiographies and outsider opinions, but I don’t have free links to those

Keep in mind that getting out of a high control group sucks ass, and most accounts (even if they claim to have healed) have the remnants of the abusive ideologies.

I still prefer hearing from other survivors what happened, and I find it easier to validate people I can easily contact. I’ll keep the webpage if I find anything I can’t just Google, but this is what I can pull right now.

It’s not great, buddy, but it’s something.

Can you describe or explain what an emotional flashback is? I wanna have that level of awareness too. I was listening to sad music and disassociating too.

Emotional Flashbacks are one of the hallmark symptoms of CPTSD and one of the things that differentiates it from PTSD. 

In PTSD and typical flashbacks you flashback to an event and are re-experiencing that event as an explicit memory. In typical flashbacks you are experiencing a specific memory of an event. 

In CPTSD and Emotional Flashbacks you flashback to an emotional state without a clear memory of the event that caused this state. So you are experiencing the emotions tied to the traumatic event without remembering the event itself. 

This makes it harder to recognize that you are experiencing a flashback because you seem to just feel bad for no reason, especially if you don’t realize that you were triggered. People with CPTSD sometimes can’t remember specific traumatic events because trauma was long term and a part of their daily life, and/or because the trauma began at such an early age. 

To give a more clear example, I recognized that I was having an emotional flashback today because I was feeling frozen, helpless, powerless, and as if my actions would have no impact on the world around me. 

Just recognizing that you are having an emotional flashback can be helpful, but grounding techniques that pull you back into the present are especially helpful. Once I realized I was in an emotional flashback I turned off the sad music and tried to reorient myself to the present. 

Writing this reply to you has actually been very grounding. 

Thank you for running this blog. I was held in troubled teen industry facilities for all of my teenagerhood, and am severely traumatized as a result, and it's been extremely hard to find words to describe what I went through to other systems or to trauma therapists.

It feels "too much", like there's no way this could all have happened to me, and I've been accused of lying about the organized abuse that went on there. Sometimes it feels almost like i AM lying, though I know I'm not.

Although feeling like I have "too much" trauma is something that I have to continue working on personally, I want to say thank you for pointing me in the direction of a framework that I can research and use that fits me more than any other one I've seen before.

I wish that none of us went through the horrors we went through, but I'm glad that there's a community out there and people talking about the things that have affected me. Thank you again for what you do running this blog.

Before anything else — thank you. This is an incredibly kind message and I'm really glad that you could find solace in this blog. I aim to provide resources that may not be (physically or emotionally) acessible otherwise, and highlight lesser-discussed aspects of RAMCOA.

The troubled teen industry is definitely part of the wider picture of organized abuse, and I wish it was put in that context more. Unfortunately, most discussions of RAMCOA focus on early childhood manifestations, and situations primarily focused on adolescents, adults, seniors aren't as referenced. Basically, the older the victim, the less likely it is to be included in definitions of RAMCOA; which is a shame, because those perspectives are crucial. Abusive care homes & inpatient facilities, prisons, and yes, troubled teen facilities are all forms of organized abuse in my mind, but the strong correlation with pedophile rings and cults has... Alienated? Many people from describing their experiences as OA.

I totally understand the feeling of having "too much trauma", and I feel like many survivors in general, not just ones of RAMCOA, can relate to that sentiment. "It's just too unlikely for all these things to have happened," I'll say to myself, "I must be exaggerating." Something that's helped me is the idea that some predators can smell blood in the water, and if all you know is hardship, it's hard to break out of hardship. Experiencing layers of trauma isn't... Rare, and you're not lying about it.

Once again, thank you. If you need any resources specific to the troubled teen industry, let me know. There's not a ton of research on it in the context of RAMCOA like I said, but I'm sure I'll find something of use.

Wishing you a gentle and fulfilling recovery. Aisling

hey hey

pssssst

guess what

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

you aren't faking

faking is a conscious choice you make.

thanks! i was wondering what helps you safely deal with/ resist callbacks in general? i hope i worded that ok, if it‘s too triggering to talk about please don‘t.

It's not triggering at all! Don't worry one bit. We took a while because we were vacationing (and getting used to my boyfriend snoring like a chainsaw directly into my eardrum)!

Callback is tricky for us because it's one of the few well-executed programs we have. Our situation was poorly planned, so most of the attempted conditioning ended up messy. Teenage ad-hoc groups aren't exactly known for their consistency.

Something to keep in mind is that programming does not come from nowhere. It exaggerates and warps common trauma responses. It is a common experience in abuse survivors to have the urge to return, and that means there are lots of resources on this topic! Yes, a survivor of extreme conditioning presents differently than a ""normal"" DV/abuse survivor, but at its core, it's the same mechanisms.

For us, in particular, though:

Identify material barriers. This is things like not having enough money, being in a location where you can't really leave freely (work, school, etc.), not having access to transit that will get you to a location, etc. Locking our credit card is example of introducing a material barrier ahead of time.

Identify nonmaterial barriers. This is social consequences like people missing you & having responsibilities that need fulfilling in the time frame, or less physical things like not having a method of contact (like lacking a phone number) or address.

Let someone be your accountabili-buddy. This doesn't have to be telling someone about programming, but it could be as simple as "can you please call me at x time" or "I will call you when my flight lands". This goes into nonmaterial barriers, but here, instead of passive "what if people miss me" or something, you are instead actively introducing someone who will be checking on you.

Good ol' grounding. Whatever method works for you(/y'all), it will help. Programming is a return to a time period, a way of thinking, that is incongruent to the current moment. Reminding yourself that it you are not in that place anymore (through whatever means you like) will help. Our favorite is music, especially newly-discovered stuff.

Mild reminders to how bad that trauma period was helps us. Fighting a program with flashbacks isn't ideal, so we try to keep the reminders abstract. "It was very scary back then and things are better now. We should not go back." That sorta thing. Our partner helps a lot with this, as he is not going to be specific (he does not know the details of course) but still reassuring and supportive.

See if switching will help. We come armed with many sensory-based triggers (a plush or two, music playlists, jewelry, access to food & drink) so we try to drag someone else's sorry ass into the mix, especially a non-conditioned part. Blake, a physical protector and top layer resident, is our default "walking in potentially dangerous area" headmate and he ended up escorting us through the airport a lot!

We did all of these while we travelled last week, and we ended up perfectly fine. We were on the phone with our partner nearly the entire time, kept ourselves fed & watered, and honestly? Enjoyed it. We like the odd liminality of airports and despite an hour delay for one of our flights, we actually had a great time travelling.

We wish you luck!

Everyday, I lose a little bit more faith with how people treat RAMCOA survivors. We're either treated as too much or some circus entertainment, and it's not even always by singlets either.

(Deimos had started answering this last night but apparently got distracted and did not finish. So I will post what he said, as I think he worded it well. Also, interesting how you worded this, as we have a poem talking about this very subject of being seen as a walking freak show/circus side show. -Dorian)

There is not anything I could add to this ask to make it more or less true, as you are absolutely correct. Like our abusers, they do not see us as people. As survivors, we are continually dehumanized just as we were back then. They will never see us as people. We have never been human to them.

-Deimos, the alter who quite literally started wearing a tiger mask after the main character in the book “No Longer Human” by Junji Ito/Dazai because he has never once felt like a person or understood humanity.

Can you explain what a shell alter is and what their purpose is? /gen

Shell alters are a dissociated system member who is fronting all the time, or almost all the time. They often lack elaboration. Shells work as an interface between the rest of the system & the outside world by never leaving front, and having the rest of the system either blending with them temporariality or being forced into co-consciousness. This serves a few purposes; make the system more covert, mask inter-switch amnesia, blunt or filter out emotions/urges/etc. from the rest of the system, and more. It's uncommon, but there can be multiple shells one system, serving different subroles.

In some cases of OSDD-1a, the shell is the "unified" identity. Think like, if the system is made up of "angry Sarah", "scared Sarah", "work Sarah", etc., that shell would be the "Sarah" identity.

They're most commonly seen in OSDD-1a, but can come up in other forms of multiplicity, like DID, but typically when RAMCOA is in the picture. Although it can be daunting, healing with a shell is possible. You can reached out to them, they can be integrated, they gain more elaboration, etc etc. Whatever healing path works for you.

We don't have a shell, but I'm sure some pwDID/OSDD on this hellsite (affectionate) have talked about their experiences with them more in depth. There isn't a ton of research on them — many sites point to Alison Miller's books, but there's no actual like, raw data, just summations of what's she's found in her practice/case studies — so take that as you will.

Each shell is a different, and different systems may use slightly different definitions. Hopefully this was a good overview. -Aisling

Rant

CW: This post will discuss RAMCOA (not in detail) and the mistreatment of RAMCOA survivors in the OSDDID community. Please read with caution.

RAMCOA survivors are treated terribly in the system community. Your trauma is seen as larger than life, not real/fictional, or too bad to talk about. Hell, I'm nervous to even mention this kind of thing because it's so heavily seen as taboo and dangerous to talk about to other people. We're not allowed to share our stories because our trauma(s) are "too severe" and "dangerous" that we're not allowed to share what we went through. I have seen people say not to Google it, and if they do that they'll be more likely to be a victim as well. Which.. just isn't true. Apply that to any other trauma where Googling the definition makes it more likely for you to experience it. Make it make sense! You don't have to share your story in any case scenario, but why are we not ALLOWED to? Why is our trauma that different? It's isolating us, which is what my abusers would've wanted. I've been told that my trauma is fake, and no wonder! We're not allowed to talk about it. Ever. Let us talk about it if we feel comfortable to, it's not your choice, it's OURS.