MD Glossary

Satanic Panic, The False Memory Foundation’s Shaky Origins, and Why You Should Believe RAMCOA Survivors

(TW: mentions of RAMCOA, False Memory Foundation, child torture & death, cults, trafficking)

Pretty disappointed to see a fairly popular and well known blog on tumblr is encouraging the idea that RAMCOA doesn’t exist. Just came across this post and was pretty bummed to see the comments too.

For those that agree with them (most of my followers won’t but who knows who will stumble across this), please know that RAMCOA has been going on for much longer than the Satanic Panic. The Satanic Panic was fabricated in an effort to discredit RAMCOA survivors. It was supported by the False Memory Foundation, which was created by a man (and his wife) trying to prove his daughter’s repressed memories of trauma involving him did not really happen. [Explained further in the third article further down in this post]

For the record, false memory/planting false memories has been disproven, it’s not possible to fully plant false memories in patients. Some memories can be altered to an extent because memories can be disjointed and influence from others can cause memories to shift slightly, which is why it’s not encouraged for trauma patients to share exact detailed memories with each other. For example, if two trauma patients were abused by their father and had a similar situation happen and patient A spoke about their experience in detail, if both fathers wore glasses and patient A describes their father to have black rimmed glasses, patient B’s memory might shift to believe that their father also had black rimmed glasses, even though his glasses were gold rimmed. However, it’s not possible to fully plant memories that do not exist in a patient’s memory. The “base memory” so to speak has to be there in order for any alterations to occur, and those alterations that are possible are often rather minuscule, such as glasses or whether or not their abuser had facial hair or not, or the color of the person’s eyes. Not an entire scene of RA. [Again, explained well by the third article below.]

Repressed memory has been proven to exist. (Though it’s more accurately called dissociated memories by clinicians) It can even exist in people who have traumas that happen in adulthood. Pieces of a traumatic event may go missing in a patient’s working memory, and they may not retrieve it until they are ready to process the memory and all the emotions and information that comes with it. However, it still exists stored in the brain, just in a different area than working memory. It’s why triggers to the traumatic event (that the patient may not even realize are triggers until they occur) can cause flashbacks and memory resurfacing during said flashbacks.

Some sources explaining the False Memory Foundation and the harm they’ve caused: [a good overview of a woman who was major in the development of the idea of repressed memory being a myth, by a researcher of child psychiatry], [while this is a psychology today article, I think this explains well how misused the idea of FMS - false memory syndrome - is.] [A comprehensive article explaining the roots of the FMF and how the studies used to “prove” false memory are terrible and easily debunked, with several assertions from professionals in the field.] I want to add that while the FMF has dissolved and rightfully so, the British False Memory Society is still alive and well, as well as the Satanic Temple’s Grey Faction, and both groups still cite False Memory Syndrome as being real and claim that RAMCOA survivors have false memories of their abuse.

However, before Satanic Panic happened, people were starting to actually believe in the existence of RAMCOA and the concept of DID was brought into the mainstream. A survivor on tiktok has a very good video on this situation. And that scared people, especially the abusers themselves who didn’t want to get caught. That’s when the False Memory Foundation stepped in on the heels of Satanic Panic and literally rewrote the textbooks therapists learned from, and basically taught everyone that repressed memory doesn’t exist. Any therapists that spoke about their patients’ experiences with RAMCOA were sued. Therapists stopped wanting to treat RAMCOA patients for fear of being sued and/or losing their license or being told they planted these memories in their patients’ heads and possibly losing their licenses. It led to generations of old therapists not treating RAMCOA patients and generations of new therapists learning it doesn’t exist.

But it does exist. To outright deny that child torture cannot exist is absurd. 1-2% of reported child abuse falls under the definition of child torture. [source, TW: photos of children with serious injuries from torture included on page 7 of this document] For the record, my abuse was never and has never been reported, and most survivors—RAMCOA and non-RAMCOA, whose trauma falls under the definition of torture—never reported or plan to report.

Even if you find the mind control aspect to be far-fetched, ritual abuse most certainly does exist. I’ve seen videos on the surface web on fucking tiktok of all places of child torture and ritual abuse. Organized abuse such as sex trafficking and labor trafficking does exist. Two out of those three things in the acronym are well documented to exist. And for the record, ritual abuse and cult abuse even in adults can cause extreme mind and identity alteration, upwards to the point of nearly being mind control. Look up OSDD-2 in the DSM-V. Look up just about any cult survivors testimonies and hear how they talk about how they nearly became a different person within their cult, how the cult uses torture and mind altering drugs to get their initiates to commit terrible acts of violence to each other. Now imagine if that same stuff were happening to a child whose mind is significantly easier to mold and change. Even if the child RAMCOA survivor does not develop DID, it can cause extreme conditioned responses in which the child (or now grown adult or teen) will still do the responses even now because as a child they were threatened with torture or death if they didn’t do it.

Mind control is essentially an extreme form of conditioning, and with the plethoras of research on DID and how it functions, it’s not even a difficult concept to grasp that a cult member might learn how to split new alters in a child via torture and then manipulate those alters to do what they want individually. Anyone who knows fuck all about DID knows that alters can be triggered out via positive and negative triggers. All mind control programming is, is creating a specific trigger for a specific alter and then when that child is exposed to that trigger, that alter comes out and does the task it was taught to do—usually via torture, manipulation, and threats of harm to the child or those the child loves. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, and with how long TBMC (torture based mind control) programmers have had to perfect their work, it’s no surprise that they’ve learned how to make alters do extremely complex tasks or hold onto specific functions, always at the ready for their specific trigger.

RAMCOA research doesn’t exist in mainstream spaces because it’s nearly impossible to be taken seriously because of people who claim it doesn’t exist when it’s not even a complex topic to understand. They just don’t want to accept that it exists. The concept is terrifying, harrowing, and at some times almost absurd—and that combination makes it easier for people to put their blinders up and decide it doesn’t exist. [Edited to add: On top of this, what little research is done on it is steeped in conspiracy theories that often have roots in antisemitism. While I’ve asserted that Miller’s deprogramming books are good reads for RAMCOA survivors, she does often sound conspiratorial, and quotes Svali, a known antisemite. While I don’t think RAMCOA is exclusively related to the Illuminati stuff she often talks about, Miller’s work cannot be completely discounted because of her beliefs of where the abuse originated. Where it originates matters much less than the fact that it happens. However, not from dark, underground, secret societies—but from normal places like churches, children’s own homes (yes, RAMCOA can be done by a single parent to a single child, it just may look different than say, a trafficking ring), trafficking rings, militaristic groups, political cults, etc. I wanted to put the above put there because I know someone is going to come at me and try to say the researchers who talk about it were conspiracy theorists. Yeah, they were. Maybe they were the only ones willing to talk openly about it because of the fact they’re conspiracy theorists? I don’t know. However, I think it should also be noted that just because the researchers sucked doesn’t mean the information taken from them isn’t useful when you weed out the conspiracy stuff. For example, a LOT of modern understanding of medicine was taken from Nazi and Japanese experiments during WWII. Arguably some of the worst doctors on earth. Do we discount everything we learned because they were horrible, evil, people? No. While those who studied RAMCOA went about it in shit ways, that doesn’t discount the information learned completely. Likewise, much of modern psych understanding came from roots that included incredibly unethical experiments that would never be allowed today. Do we throw out all of that info too? No, we don’t. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t hold these people accountable, I’m saying we cannot throw out all discussion of RAMCOA because the doctors who talked about it were shitty people.]

I wish I could decide it doesn’t exist. I have permanent scarring that proves what happened did happen. I have doctor’s visits that prove I am disabled because of the traumas I went through. I have a DID specialist who didn’t even know programming to our extent even existed before our parts started telling her what they went through and she heard it from our own mouth. She had to learn how to deprogram us on the fly because she’d never done so before. So fuck off with your “oh, RAMCOA patients only have RAMCOA because they’ve been influenced by their therapist to believe they do” bullshit.

I relive my traumas in flashbacks and nightmares daily. There have been periods in my healing process where I couldn’t leave the house without someone with me for months. I couldn’t hold a job for nearly a year. I didn’t know any of this happened to me until I was in my 20s. I thought my memory was just bad and the only parts of my childhood I remembered were little blips of good things, usually involving my parent that was not involved with the cult or memories with friends at school or when I was hanging out with my sports teammates. Living with this stuff is hell. You think I want to live with this stuff? If I could permanently erase it all from my memory forever I would. But I can’t. I don’t have that luxury.

It happened. And I’m not the only child it happened to, both in the area of my country I live in and in areas all over my country and the world. This is not an isolated phenomenon. It is more common than anyone tends to realize (though still rarer than most DID cases, thank fuck). I was lucky to survive. I survived because they wanted me to. I saw a lot of children, teens, and adults who were not as “lucky” as I was. If you won’t respect survivors and their stories, at least respect the ones who didn’t survive. They didn’t deserve their final moments to be so full of pain. All of the children in these groups deserved to be loved and cared for and treated with softness and compassion. So do adult survivors like me and many others.

If I could end on one thing, it would be to urge the doubters to have some fucking compassion and empathy for people who have been through things they cannot even begin to understand. My past feels like a nightmare I will never be able to escape. I cannot erase it. I can only try to heal from it. So heal I will do, and in the process I will continue to speak the truth of my experience as safely as I can.

You want proof it’s real? Survivors are your proof.

WE are the proof.

[Edit: changed some wording for clarification + added a section after rereading a couple hours later]

[Edit 2: I realized I said my abuse has never been reported, I meant my RAMCOA related abuse. Want to make that clear. I reported sexual abuse done by my church to CPS and nothing came of it. CPS actually wrongfully claimed that since they had no reports existing of that church harming kids they wouldn’t pursue it since it happened so long ago, when a cursory google search of said location shows they’ve been reported multiple times and all reports were dropped. Why, I’m not sure.]

Are there any RAMCOA-exclusive terms the system community needs to be aware of?

I know system hopping, system resets, and shell alters have had their meanings butchered, but then I see some debate about if "sidesystem" is RAMCOA-exclusive (or at least only experienced by RAMCOA survivors), as well as how gatekeeper and polyfragmentation aren't RAMCOA-exclusive but often have their meanings that tie back to that erased.

I... Can't think of any.

Terms being exclusive to RAMCOA¹ is kind of tricky as 1) most people who have gone through RAMCOA have little awareness of it, both in their own memory & not being aware of the terminology and community 2) RAMCOA is a continuum, meaning it's hard to define what is or isn't "enough" to qualify as RAMCOA, and 3) there are few rules as to how a system copes with stress & trauma. Further, a lot of the language around RAMCOA is community-based, or from specific high-control abuser groups; it's just damn hard to track where things come from. I can say though that sidesystem has its roots in the larger community and I know multiple "regular" systems with sidesystems⁠—hell, we were using "sidesystem" before we gained more awareness of our OA⁠— and shells exist in other forms of multiplicity, specifically some OSDD-1a presentations.

System hopping & system resets are weird as well, as they describe phenomena that is related to RAMCOA, and I'd argue really a facet of the control and shutdowns with systems who have survived RAMCOA, but we did not come up with those names at all. System hopping is often used as a threat by abusers (like used in combination with something like twin programming), and resets can be programmed-in "rotations" of fronters, but... They are what the wider plural community called them, and what some survivors have adopted because they're now recognizable terms.

That being said, I do think the community should be more aware of how the history of OSDD & DID is based in the study of RAMCOA. I see so many younger systems now ignore or even mocking the concept of RA, lumping the entire phenomenon in with the Satanic Panic (even though many of us survivors were literally born after that ended), or buying into False Memory Syndrome rhetoric. I've literally seen folks saying "there's no evidence that repressed memories exist" as if we haven't proven that scientifically over and over again. I think it's an issue of folks trying to distance themselves so far from stuff like the Satanic Panic & more modern iterations like Qanon that they leave survivors like me behind. It reeks of respectability politics, and victims are exhausted with the decades of fakeclaiming.

I think we should be less worried about if certain terms are exclusive to RAMCOA survivors and more concerned with actually meaningful support, like looking into the research on it, knowing the history of our fight for recognition and The Memory Wars era (for example: do you know where the RAMCOA acronym comes from? Do you know what the Grey Faction is? Can you recognize how misogyny was weaponized, and how social services were targeted by politicians by using us as a pawn?), and recognizing harmful rhetoric.

(Sorry for the huge dump of text!!!)

¹ For the record, there are certain terms that are exclusive to RAMCOA by means of, well, that being in the definition; programming, for example, is... Obviously RAMCOA specific. However, almost all forms of abuse require some kind of conditioning so saying "conditioning" is RAMCOA exclusive is false. See? It's tricky.

I lost the posts we wanted to respond to, but I think I remember what we were gonna say

🗝️🏷️ RAMCOA with vague examples, syscourse?

Highly Complex DID

What “Complex” Means:

From what we’ve read, it seems like Complex refers to the specific disorder’s criteria. C-PTSD is PTSD with a different presentation; in this case, multiple/prolonged trauma causes difficulty tracing symptoms in the same ways as other PTSD cases. C-DID is DID with a different presentation; here it’s more intricate mechanisms that lead treatment down another path. Even CDD, which is dissociation into self-states instead of one dissociating self-state. The C just means that thing, plus some extra. There are going to be cases where a Complex patient is actually more simple to care for than a non-Complex patient — it’s just a matter of narrowing it down with more criteria.

Highly Complex:

As far as I know, there are no other communities that use Highly Complex as a label. It’s a specific word to whittle down the topic even further; C-DID but with more specifiers. For HC-DID, the specifiers are programming and structuring. Every human who experienced programming and lived is a RAMCOA survivor. Not every RAMCOA survivor considers themself a HC-DID system. Some survivors didn’t form systems at all. Others don’t think their system qualifies. Maybe people just don’t want to identify themselves this way. Even if it were a medical diagnosis — it’s not — forcing people to use labels they don’t want is rude at best.

What RAMCOA Is:

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, Organized Abuse. Surviving any of those is enough to belong in the community.

Ritual Abuse - maltreatment (of anyone) including ceremonies or traditions. It can be anything from religious sacrifice to underage marriage.

Mind Control - manipulation of psychological processes. I genuinely don’t know if there has to be negative intent or a specific plan from the abuser to qualify, but even targeted McDonald’s ads make use of mind control (probably not abusively, I’ve never looked into that).

Organized Abuse - maltreatment that involves multiple perpetrators collaborating in their perpetration. If two people meet at a bar and then hurt a child together, that’s enough. It can be elaborate groups like churches or criminal groups, but the only requirement is more than one perp.

It can be one or a mix of any, but it’s still RAMCOA. Usually, the DID community uses RAMCOA to talk about surviving programming (Trauma-Based Mind Control for the purpose of creating a system), and we label our systems Highly Complex.

Extra Criteria:

To be Highly Complex, survivors are usually closest to C-DID. But wait, there’s more!

HC-DID systems also receive:

Programming - I only know of TBMC being used to split off dissociative alters, but I’d budge on that if someone knew otherwise. Abusers control the child (body) by causing calculated suffering until they get the results they want. Perps split off alters with goals in mind for them, and continue to break them until they fit the desires of the abusers. This control extends to every other aspect of HC-DID, and is the reason another label exists at all.

Layers - different dimensions of innerworld. Sometimes this looks like literal other realms inside, but it could also be like floors of a building or planets or other separate worlds. Layers are often assigned a name or cue that allows outsiders to maneuver a system’s landscape from the external world. Perps don’t go in as much as they bring out, by assigned alter or other cued manipulations.

Subsystems - alters with alters, except also programmed. Cues are assigned to each subsystem alter as well, usually related to the subsystem as a collective. Just like programmed singlet alters, subsystems can be arranged by outsiders for memories, tasks, etc.

Sidesystems - kind of multiple systems within the metasystem. Groups might be contained in a separate innerworld pocket, unwilling to communicate with other alters, or otherwise unreachable in the same way other groups are. These sidesystems usually have a collective task, or function as a whole other system in the body. Details of what they do and why are also conditioned.

Programs - conditioning attached to cues. Programs might force amnesia, give body memories, set off chains of tasks, or any other typical or atypical system capability. Programs might be perceived as wires and buttons, or files, or whatever else programmers decide.

Not all HC-DID systems will have the same level of programming. Not all programmed systems will be more “complex” that other systems. Having a term to describe our unique experiences helps a lot of survivors to feel understood, especially if they’re already open about their past.

RAMCOA survivors are kept in a strange position online and irl. We’re used as examples of “unimaginable trauma” and “extreme abuse”, but are largely told to sit down and shut up; we’re too dangerous to speak up about what was done to us, too unbelievable, or too much at all. Finding help is a nightmare, sucks butt for everyone involved, and is fairly necessary for long term recovery. Like many systems, we beat the odds time and time again to call ourselves “survivors” instead of “victims”. Like many systems, we are rejected by most of society. Unlike most systems, we are a secret within system communities.

Being Complex is not being special, it’s just a haughty way to say there are extra requirements. Recovery for many systems is already a stretch. For HC-DID systems, we are healing the impossible.

What are some common consequences of being neglected as a child? source: r/emotionalneglect

Pete Walker identifies neglect as the "core wound" in complex PTSD. He writes in Complex PTSD: From Surviving To Thriving,

"Growing up emotionally neglected is like nearly dying of thirst outside the fenced off fountain of a parent's warmth and interest. Emotional neglect makes children feel worthless, unlovable and excruciatingly empty. It leaves them with a hunger that gnaws deeply at the center of their being. They starve for human warmth and comfort."

Self esteem that is low, fragile or nearly non-existent: all forms of abuse and neglect make a child feel worthless and despondent and lead to self-blame, because when we are totally dependent on our parents we need to believe they are good in order to feel secure. This belief is upheld at the expense of our own boundaries and internal sense of self.

Pervasive sense of shame: a deeply ingrained sense that "I am bad" due to years of parents and caregivers avoiding closeness with us.

Little or no self-compassion: When we are not treated with compassion, it becomes very difficult to learn to have compassion for ourselves, especially in the midst of our own struggles and shortcomings. A lack of self-compassion leads to punishment and harsh criticism of ourselves along with not taking into account the difficulties caused by circumstances outside of our control.

Anxiety: frequent or constant fear and stress with no obvious outside cause, especially in social situations. Without being adequately shown in our childhoods how we belong in the world or being taught how to soothe ourselves we are left with a persistent sense that we are in danger.

Difficulty setting boundaries: Personal boundaries allow us to not make other people's problems our own, to distance ourselves from unfair criticism, and to assert our own rights and interests. When a child's boundaries are regularly invalidated or violated, they can grow up with a heavy sense of guilt about defending or defining themselves as their own separate beings.

Isolation: this can take the form of social withdrawal, having only superficial relationships, or avoiding emotional closeness with others. A lack of emotional connection, empathy, or trust can reinforce isolation since others may perceive us as being distant, aloof, or unavailable. This can in turn worsen our sense of shame, anxiety or under-development of social skills.

Refusing or avoiding help (counter-dependency): difficulty expressing one's needs and asking others for help and support, a tendency to do things by oneself to a degree that is harmful or limits one's growth, and feeling uncomfortable or 'trapped' in close relationships.

Codependency (the 'fawn' response): excessively relying on other people for approval and a sense of identity. This often takes the form of damaging self-sacrifice for the sake of others, putting others' needs above our own, and ignoring or suppressing our own needs.

Cognitive distortions: irrational beliefs and thought patterns that distort our perception. Emotional neglect often leads to cognitive distortions when a child uses their interactions with the very small but highly influential sample of people—their parents—in order to understand how new situations in life will unfold. As a result they can think in ways that, for example, lead to counterdependency ("If I try to rely on other people, I will be a disappointment / be a burden / get rejected.") Other examples of cognitive distortions include personalization ("this went wrong so something must be wrong with me"), over-generalization ("I'll never manage to do it"), or black and white thinking ("I have to do all of it or the whole thing will be a failure [which makes me a failure]"). Cognitive distortions are reinforced by the confirmation bias, our tendency to disregard information that contradicts our beliefs and instead only consider information that confirms them.

Learned helplessness: the conviction that one is unable and powerless to change one's situation. It causes us to accept situations we are dissatisfied with or harmed by, even though there often could be ways to effect change.

Perfectionism: the unconscious belief that having or showing any flaws will make others reject us. Pete Walker describes how perfectionism develops as a defense against feelings of abandonment that threatened to overwhelm us in childhood: "The child projects his hope for being accepted onto inner demands of self-perfection. ... In this way, the child becomes hyperaware of imperfections and strives to become flawless. Eventually she roots out the ultimate flaw–the mortal sin of wanting or asking for her parents' time or energy."

Difficulty with self-discipline: Neglect can leave us with a lack of impulse control or a weak ability to develop and maintain healthy habits. This often causes problems with completing necessary work or ending addictions, which in turn fuels very cruel self-criticism and digs us deeper into the depressive sense that we are defective or worthless. This consequence of emotional neglect calls for an especially tender and caring approach.

Addictions: to mood-altering substances, foods, or activities like working, watching television, sex or gambling. Gabor Maté, a Canadian physician who writes and speaks about the roots of addiction in childhood trauma, describes all addictions as attempts to get an experience of something like intimate connection in a way that feels safe. Addictions also serve to help us escape the ingrained sense that we are unlovable and to suppress emotional pain.

Numbness or detachment: spending many of our most formative years having to constantly avoid intense feelings because we had little or no help processing them creates internal walls between our conscious awareness and those deeper feelings. This leads to depression, especially after childhood ends and we have to function as independent adults.

Inability to talk about feelings (alexithymia): difficulty in identifying, understanding and communicating one's own feelings and emotional aspects of social interactions. It is sometimes described as a sense of emotional numbness or pervasive feelings of emptiness. It is evidenced by intellectualized or avoidant responses to emotion-related questions, by overly externally oriented thinking and by reduced emotional expression, both verbal and nonverbal.

Emptiness: an impoverished relationship with our internal selves which goes along with a general sense that life is pointless or meaningless.

Something buried years ago lies burning still beneath the snow.

what is the difference between did, complex did, and highly complex did? where would a small system w a subsystem fall into that?

The differences are usually described as where they fall on the dissociation scale according to the Theory of Structural Dissociation (ToSD). Highly complex DID (HC-DID) does not have any medical recognition as far as I know, I believe it’s mostly a community term to bring survivors of RAMCOA programming together (please correct me if this is wrong). Distinctions in system structure between DID and complex/polyfragmented DID (C-DID or P-DID or PF-DID) have been documented, but literature on complex DID hasn’t been updated since the 1980s if I remember correctly.

Within the community, distinctions are made as follows:

DID is defined as two or more alters and amnesia between parts. This is distinguished from OSDD-1a, which does not include distinct parts, and OSDD-1b, which does not include dissociative amnesia (dissociative amnesia in DID can manifest as gaps in important life events, lapses in memory of recent events or well-learned skills such as driving, and discovery of possessions the patient does not remember owning or purchasing).

C-DID is not so much determined by alter count (as people have claimed it is) than it is determined by the actual structure and features of the system. For example: C-DID is more likely to have a complex and expansive innerworld, complex splitting patterns (splitting multiple alters at once, splitting groups, splitting a few fully formed alters and a group of fragments, etc.), and subsystems (alters with alters). It has also been said that polyfragmentation is a phenomenon that starts with normalized, everyday abuse and trauma before the age of 5.

The differences between C-DID and HC-DID

WARNING: RAMCOA AND TMBC TALK. STAY SAFE!!!

So, we see a lot of people on here are saying that HC-DID is just C-DID but with a different abuse history, which is only a very small part of makes the two different! So, we’re going to explain in this what differentiates the two, as well as what makes them similar!!!

Also, no hate to those saying they’re the same as most of not all of the time they’re just misinformed!!!

Overlap

Polyfragmented

Has subsystems

If there’s an inner world it’s complex

Smaller window for structure formation (eg. 0-5 years old instead of 0-9)

Can have a low splitting tolerance

C-DID traits not present in HC-DID

No mind control/programmed alters

this is the most important thing!!! I wouldn’t recommend looking into MC and it’s forms if you are suspecting a history of it for yourself, but there are different programs (eg. eta, beta, iota, spider in web) that create and mind control alters. We’ll get into that more in HC-DID exclusive!!!

Always has low split tolerance or group splittings

High amnesia barriers in every area

Was not intentionally created/disorder was not manipulated by abusers to serve them

HC-DID traits not present in C-DID

Programming and programmed alters.

We’re going to use an example here, so be warned. Let’s say the XYZ system has gamma and beta programming. Gamma programming is loyalty programming. When XYZ heard a certain string of numbers, a member of the ABC sidesystem (more on that later) comes out. An alter from there then goes to contact an abuser asking for sex, to which the abuser replies. The abuser then plays a song that triggers out a member of the DEF sidesystem, which is beta aka sexually programmed. The alters come out and have sex with the abuser.

Another example. Suicide and sh are discussed. The 123 system has omega programming, which is suicidal and sh programming. The host of the 123 system decides to look into RAMCOA, and a higher up/internal handler with Omega programming is alerted by a gatekeeper. The handler then orders the gatekeeper to let the 456 sidesystem take front, to which the alters take turns in mutilating the body in different ways. At the end, the host fronts and human instincts, programming and logical reasoning all decide that looking into RAMCOA is not worth it, meaning the system doesn’t find out about its history for a long time.

Sidesystems. Sidesystems are a set of programmed alters meant to carry out a specific programmed act. For example, a theta aka religiously programmed sidesystem may exist for certain rituals, in which one alter fronts for each step. These are different from subsystems because subsystems are not programmed.

Can have a high split tolerance as well as a low split tolerance

Can have low amnesia barriers in some areas with high amnesia barriers in others (layer 1 alters can remember what the others do but don’t remember anything about the layer 3 alters and their actions)

Disorder was intentionally manipulated to serve the abuser(s) whether they knew about DID as a disorder or not

And those are what we’ve got! We hope that this post was informative and helped you get a better understanding of the differences between the two structures!!! Tysm for reading, and have a good day!!!

do not know how to word my feelings on your post, but it feels very strange to say that because your DID experiences are misery, that means DID itself is miserable, and to imply that non-DID-having bodies can't experience being a system is weird.

yes, what you went through sounds awful, and yes, DID to you would be miserable, but DID does not mean misery. it means (some level of) disorder. for people who are polyfragmented (especially through things like RAMCOA/TBMC), yes, this CAN mean a LOT of misery, but us systems who do not suffer with that same level of misery aren't less of a system because of that difference.

while you can explain your experiences as more painful in your perspective, playing trauma olympics and denying other people's own experiences is weird. it's heavily invalidating, especially as someone who would probably fall under a disordered traumagenic diagnosis, and who loves their system and who sees it as hope and not misery (as it is the light in the darkness, the company that protected me through terrible things. that is not misery for me)

(also, most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID, not self diagnosed or professionally diagnosed. it is a different kind of plural systemhood that is not connected to having DID. so to say that being endogenic is taking away "everything that DID is about" is just... strange.)

I am not playing the trauma Olympics by saying that what I went through makes me miserable. For you to suggest acknowledging my existence as a trauma survivor is invalidating is really not good.

Also I should clarify: you can love parts and even most of your system, but you cannot deny the fact that it is born out of misery and so it is not all sunshine and rainbows. It comes with PTSD, or one of its forms.

Also, endogenic is taking away everything DID is about because the only scientifically recognized way to be a system is with either DID (or a variant like HC or C), OSDD-1, or UDD. And these, like all dissociative disorders, are trauma disorders. To me being endogenic has always meant cherry picking a glamorized version of the symptoms of these disorders, as I said in the post.

hope this is okay to ask but how would a system who suspects RAMCOA figure out what their programming type is if they show signs of a few different kinds? alternatively; are different techniques sometimes programmed together?

(Warning ahead of time; I will not be censoring any words or topics here. Also, I talk a lot.)

I want to emphasize ahead of time: most cases of RAMCOA do not involve programming. RAMCOA exists on a wide spectrum, and programming is extreme conditioning, starting as a young child, that specifically creates dissociative barriers (thus, creating a system) which requires consistent access and organization. Most cases of RAMCOA do have some levels of conditioning, but well defined programs are considerably less common. You can be a RAMCOA survivor without programming (or, in our case, loosely defined and poorly executed programs that border on "normal" conditioning).

Anyways...

I've recommended this before, but track your symptoms. RAMCOA relies on patterns & consistency, but especially programming. Track emotions, internal system happenings, switches, and their triggers the best you can (whether using a digital medium like Notion or a physical journal). Being able to correlate specific dates & stimuli to symptoms will make a huge difference. Part of how we figured out we have some sort of proto-Delta (aggression, fearlessness, emotional detachment, etc.) programming is through noting how we reacted to wounds/blood, both ours and others'; how specific parts front or come closer to front during times of stress or fear; vague memories of forced perpetration being triggered by certain weapons, scents, or bodily positions; etc.

It is honestly way rarer to find a system with one kind of program in this context. This because nearly all have some sort of basic obedience training, often referred to as "alpha" programming. Another near-universal program is some sort of access program: basically, a way in for programmers to call alters to the front, modify & implant programs, etc. Other kinds of programs are stacked on top of this, relating to whatever the victim's "specialization" would be. For example, sex trafficking that utilized programming would result in a victim probably having some sort of transport program (often to fall asleep on command so they do not know the route or location), one or multiple of the many sexual related programs, an amnesia on command program, and typically, some sort of therapy & abreaction interference program. And that's just the bare bones.

Additionally, some victims may not have a singular specialization, possibly because they were some sort of experimental ground for new programs or new combinations of programs, their group was not very organized or changed focus mid-programming of the victim, or they were the child of higher-ups in the group and expected to perform more complex roles.

If by "technique", you mean different methods of implantation or organization, that is also somewhat par for the course. Some groups change goal or formation over time, others may on-board programmers with a different "style" (an organized crime syndicate utilizing a programmer with a military background, for example). I know that only some of our system is structured strictly & militaristically, because one of our abusers was in the military.

Also... Don't be afraid of being wrong. Sorting out what happened with RAMCOA is confusing on multiple levels—trauma & dissociation warps memories, abusers will lie and trick victims, what happened is often decade(s) old, etc. You are allowed to question, research, and, if you want to, join survivor's spaces. It will be a long journey, but you are not the first and, unfortunately, quite definitely not the last.

I hope your answers come quickly, painlessly, and clearly. - Aisling