Re: Lucius Tiberius & Artoria Fighting, They Did. Bedivere Has A Line For Lucius In His Mats Profile

BEHOLD. Someone said, probably more than a year ago, that I should try my hand at making a relationship chart for our favorite Arthuriana characters in Fate. I didn't feel like doing it then, but I felt like doing it now, and then while doing it remembered why I didn't feel like doing it then.

This is literally just the 'Saber' part.

This is a (somewhat) simplified version of the Saber part. I tried formatting this so many ways and this was the one that made me want to scream the least.

NOTES:

Explaining why 'Pendragon' is in quotes: 'Pendragon' was more of a title than an actual surname, literally meaning 'Head Dragon' in Welsh, and was mostly an authoritative title used in regards to Uther. Over time, people added the title to Arthur's name as a pseudo-surname as well, before it became treated as an actual surname for the figure. However, this does mean that Mordred most likely wouldn't be 'Mordred Pendragon' unless he acquired the same societal status as Uther and Arthur via becoming king. Still, Fate is one of the many works that treats 'Pendragon' as a true surname rather than a title.

Similarly to 'Pendragon', 'Vortigern' may also be a title that became a name later on, with historians arguing that it may have meant something like 'Supreme Lord'. It wasn't until later interpretations that 'Vortigern' went from a nebulous, violent ruler of the Britons to Arthur's uncle and Uther's brother.

In terms of legends, Morgan is often the step-daughter of Uther after his marriage of Igraine. In Fate, Morgan is Uther's biological daughter and was simply falsely presented as Uther's step-daughter. This is probably a result of fusing Morgan with Uther's daughter Morgause.

Arthur and Morgan have two obscure siblings that will probably never be relevant: Queen Elaine of Garlot, and Madoc.

Gawain, Gareth, Gaheris, and Agravain all had wives. Gareth was married to Lady Lyonesse, Gaheris was married to Lady Lynette (the sister to Lady Lyonesse), Agravain was married to Lady Laurel (Lyonesse and Lynette's niece), and Gawain was… complicated.

See, Gawain had a lot of romances going on. A decent amount of stories had him start single, fall in love, ride off into the sunset… and then come the next tale he'd be single again, rinse and repeat. I'm guessing Ragnell is his canonical spouse since that's the most well-known story and the one with a solid romantic moral in it, but a name has not been dropped and Fate Gawain seems to have no qualms about being 'single again' so honestly we may never know. Which is honestly fitting characterization if you take his 'episodic romances' literally.

I almost forgot Ywain was canonized via Summer Ruler Artoria. He's also here.

Gray and Add are representing Sir Kay because he doesn't have any clear artwork yet.

Death Parade Opening Creditless

Note: I discuss details that suggest Morgan x Artoria in this post. Don't read if you're uncomfortable with the idea.

Artoria considers Kay her brother but she treats none of Morgan's children as her blood relatives. She calls none of her knights nieces or nephews let alone calling Mordred her son. Even as Morgan slapped Tristan with all the evil Gifts, she still calls her sister. In people's eyes, Lancelot is her most favorite knight/person. However when counting her inner thought, it's Morgan who she let get away with everything. Even when Mordred revealed the truth about her heritage, Artoria still acknowledged Morgan as her sister. She grew up with Kay, it's not difficult for her to call him brother. Arguably she wouldn't have known about Morgan until Merlin brought everyone's attention to Artoria. Morgan left when Camelot was built. Assuming they didn't meet in secret, Artoria spent less time with Morgan than with any of Morgan's children. Her wording to Mordred was specific. She could have used Morgan's name only or refers to her as the elder daughter of Uther Pendragon. She opted to call her sister. While Garden of Avalon described her as nothing more than a pebble in Artoria's path she at the same time couldn't injure Artoria's heart. Tristan left the Round table with harsh words to Artoria and that was enough to wound her heart. In Fate/Apocrypha, in the last conversation with her Master Mordred realized Artoria became king for 'the stones on the road side'. This calls back to Morgan being a pebble in Artoria's path, not that Mordred is aware of that comparison. The stones Mordred mentioned are the people of Britain and Artoria has a sense on obligatory duty to them. The pebble that is Morgan is one Artoria shows personal favoritism among all the ones she feel obligated to help and serve. Caster Artoria admitted to playing favoritism and that's not unique to her, all Artorias do that. While she is supposed to treasure all lives, she openly wants to kill Merlin. Either he finally crossed a line or he has messed with someone she plays favoritism toward. If one thinks Artoria is a merciless and inhuman king then everything Morgan did were of no consequenxe to Artoria. Taking into account of the mask she wears in front of everyone, nothing Morgan did made Artoria hates her. She blamed herself for Lancelot and Guinevere's affair, for Tristan's words, for her country's destruction. It's not out of her character to not fault Morgan for anything but that's only because she considers Morgan dear to her. To be fair, Morgan didn't force her into a similar situation with their uncle where either Artoria kills her or gets killed.

She has lines for Merlin, Gareth and Medb. Those lines of course hint at their appearance in LB6. At the same time, it suggests Caster Artoria spending time with Gareth before she went to become a knight. The other children of Morgan don't exist in LB6 or she didn't spend time with them. If the Round Table doesn't exist in LB6, why is she excited to see Gareth became a member? This could implicate that she spent time with Morgan for a good while in LB6.

She still says nothing about Morgan. Her profile mentions she hides her true feelings from everyone. She's quite open when we converse with her so the things she would want to hide would be very private and personal to her.

One detail stands out: the chocolate she claims to like. Would it even possible for chocolate to be there at that time period??? Before talking about chocolate, cacao plants don't grow in Britain. By normal means there's no chololate there. Artoria can't make it herself otherwise she would ask for ingredients rather than for the final product. Merlin can't make it since he doesn't have human sense of taste and she would have mentioned it was him who gave it to her. Semiramis turned her Hanging Garden into a chocolate factory once. She compared it to making poison. Her debut event had us helping her (chocolate self but identical to her in everyway) make chocolate. There were enough to nearly flood Chaldea. She also met MHA and got stumped by her attitude toward chocolate/sweet and poison although this is a minor detail. She is similar enough to Morgan for Mordred to refrain from outright badmouthing her at the end of Apocrypha event. It's highly likely Morgan gave chocolate to Artoria and if it's true, their relationship is good this time around. At the same time, if something happened and they are on the opposing sides again then it's a sad repeat of history.

Aside from Mordred, has anyone or her nieces or nephews actually called her aunt? To them, she's their king. Let's not forget the knights and Gawain - her nephew - tricked her into wearing that bunny outfit. That's another strange thing since as Ruler, not even Moriarty can fool Artoria. If I don't count the developers' intention, Artoria intentionally play the fool in a similar fashion to Nobu. As seen with X and XX however, her real mental process is different to others, taking even the silliest thing to be serious and that doesn't make sense to others not on the same wavelength as hers. Add to those is her willingness to believe those she trusts blindly. That could be viewed as her being fair and trying to listen to others. It's dubious at this point if any of them (except Mordred) views her as family seeing that Gawain doesn't spare her from his perversion. We also haven't gotten Morgan's POV yet.

If I can throw my hat into the ring regarding Morgan’s FGO design, because I definietely have… thoughts. I don’t hate her design, and I’m interested in her character, but visually she does fall a little flat for me. Slight spoiler warning for LB6. Long rambling post ahead.

Keep reading

What do you think about PHH Morgan?

Now, remember, I don't even like or really even pity LostBelt Morgan.

PHH just annoys me. Her motive has been completely cheapened from being a direct result of Uther's actions to 'it was her purpose as a fae to be king'. Because I guess we can't have Uther doing anything bad that might reflect poorly on Artoria.

We also now have her having split personalities because Nasu either was feeling lazy or REALLY wanted to hint at that triad goddess that everyone keeps pretending existed and never did outside the Fates.

And also making everything with Lancelot really REALLY weird. Since he was raised by the Lady of the Lake. Who is now Morgan. Who stole him as a child from his parents while they were fleeing their kingdom. Who also apparently raised him to fight for Artoria. Who he is implied to have feelings for and showed up earlier than usual.

Nasu's Camelot lore is a mess.

Then we have Mordred, and how Mordred was conceived and created. And the fact that we know that she was abusive to Mordred. To the point that Mordred goes nuts on Semiramis just because she reminds Mordred of Morgan. And yeah, I'm putting the blame of Artoria's rejection completely on Morgan. While Artoria gets a hard time for how she responded to Mordred, at some level, I'm not particularly shocked that she sort of shut down. That's about the only way she knows how to deal with trauma, and Nasu decided to have Morgan do what Uther originally did (taking the form of a loved one to sleep with you) and Artoria is understandably not responding well.

But yeah, my issues with Morgan are also a part of a wider issue with how Nasu is doing Camelot. I'm fully aware of WHY I think he's doing it this way, but it still annoys me.

Fate’s “black magic of the British Isles”

A collection of quotes referring to this mysterious light-eating black magic native to Britain, as well as its known wielders Morgan le Fay, Vortigern, and Artoria Alter. Chances are good that this will be important in Lostbelt 6.

Long post warning!

Keep reading

Yeah but like, don't you have to be chosen by the planet and be 'worthy' to use Excalibur or something like that??

I do not for the life of me remember how the fuck Excalibur works in fate beyond that Bedi not returning it was what resulted in The Lion King. It's also so subsumed with Caliburn in popular culture that I do not remember where one stops and the other starts most of the time.

The fact that they can shoot beams with it, doesn't that make all of Chaldea sabers?

The 'worthiness' thing is Caliburn, which Fate establishes as a different sword in its canon (which is a familiar take in some versions of Arthuriana, the Caliburn/Excalibur thing is historically kinda muddy).

Excalibur is just an incredibly juiced-up Divine Construct that needs a ton of mana and shoots super lasers that automatically scale in strength depending on how much of a 'threat to humanity' something is. And because of how powerful it is, and how much mana it consumes, will kill people who aren't properly built for using it- like Bedivere. Which is why handing Excalibur to Ritsuka and saying 'use it' would be the fastest way to get a Dead End, because they'd probably die instantly after firing it off.

Luckily, Artoria is built different (Dragon Core), and can use it without dying instantly. She'll just get really tired instead.

So, again, it's a fair weapon to stick on to your massive flying magical super ship, if not pretty energy consuming, so you need to make sure it works when you do fire it off.

Do ya ever think that if Uther shows up, and he, the Artorias, and Morgan interact, Chaldea is just gonna have a collective epiphany of "So parental issues have always been a thing in this family, hasn't it?"

I’ll be honest I try very hard not to think about Uther because idk if it’s explained in fsn or whatever but my knowledge of Artoria’s backstory prior to being king is cruelly lacking

Like, is she Uther’s daughter? Is she a farmer’s daughter? Why does she sound like she was raised among commoners, why was Merlin the one to raise her? Why did Merlin present her to the Sword of Selection considering he doesn’t actually see the future? Or is it that he’s not able to anymore? Why is the Caliburn used to designate the next king, didn’t Uther have any other recognized heirs? What’s the fucking deal with Morgan? Did she grow up with Artoria? Do these two even like. Interacted? Why would Morgan want the fall of King Arthur? Is it a personal grudge? Is it a general “fuck you Britain”? Why did Merlin give Artoria a dragon heart?

Like none of them really matter when it comes to Artoria as a character, since from my understanding she’s supposed to represent “shoving who you are as a person under a rug in favor of a vague ideal you don’t really understand” (like Shirou and Rin) so the exact reason why “Artoria the farmer girl” exists and became “Artoria the King” doesn’t really matter, so I’m fine with that usually, but that means thinking about Artoria’s extended family feels a bit like that one time I tried to write a fic about a show but the canon was so inconsistent I had to rewrite the entire worldbuilding when the point was originally just to make a cute soulmate au for my otp.

My favorite part about the Nasuverse is how it needlessly crams down the Arthurian mythos. Technically, there should be about 50 years of stuff, and Arthur should have reigned for between 20-30 years. Which gives time for several iterations of the Round Table, ending with the generation of Galahad.

(putting a cut)

Keep reading

So reddit got more PHH Morgan lore. First of all, she's actually Artoria's full blooded sister. When she was born, Gaia made her "the Child of Britain" who would inherit the island's mystery. The result was that she got three different split personalities like Kay mentioned: Morgan the human(Warrior), the fairy(Fairy), and the personification of Britain(Witch). Note: her Fairy self is named VIVIAN yes, LADY OF THE LAKE Vivian. According to Lancelot, Nimue, his mom, was an alias for Vivian so...

-Me: "So Nasu, which is it? Is Morgan Igraine's kid or Uther's kid?' Nasu: "... Yes."

-So basically Morgan's three bitches in PHH. I would have thought it was a gradual process from one to another but of course Nasu takes the fucking craziest and most metaphysical route possible just to clock me in the face.

-Well that explains the whole 'Evil Vivian' thing.

... Also-

Arturia: *at Gawain* You're Morgan's kid.

Arturia: *at Agravain* You're Morgan's kid. (Wish I wasn't)

Arturia: *at Gareth* You're Morgan's kid!

Arturia: *at Gaheris* You're Morgan's kid! (How'd I get here?!)

Arturia: *at Mordred* You're Morgan's AND my kid. (...Can you say that again?)

Arturia: IS THERE ANY MORE CHILDREN OF MORGAN IN MY COURT?!

Lancelot: ... Well...not biologically...but...

Arturia: ....

The Orkney Siblings: ...

Mordred: ... I'm not extending my family tree any further.

Also also-

Lancelot: My own mother tried to rape me...

Mordred: At least she gave a shit about you.