What Do You Think About PHH Morgan?

The world deciding who’s gonna fuck up Camelot this time

My favorite part about the Nasuverse is how it needlessly crams down the Arthurian mythos. Technically, there should be about 50 years of stuff, and Arthur should have reigned for between 20-30 years. Which gives time for several iterations of the Round Table, ending with the generation of Galahad.

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My favorite part about the Nasuverse is how it needlessly crams down the Arthurian mythos. Technically, there should be about 50 years of stuff, and Arthur should have reigned for between 20-30 years. Which gives time for several iterations of the Round Table, ending with the generation of Galahad.

(putting a cut)

Keep reading

Morgan le Fey’s Condensed Timeline

I drove myself up the wall working this out this morning, but this is how I assume Morgan could have possibly raised 6 children while Altria only lived to age 35. Please let me know if you see anything wrong, I’m doing my best!

@drunk-on-starlight​

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Why Morgan being Uther's Daughter Annoys Me

So, I mentioned a few times a little about the fact that Morgan being Uther's daughter and how I hate it. Since I got a few people mentioning that they wanted to see my thoughts on it, I'll give a few at least.

So, before we begin, I'm going to give a quick refresher on Morgan's backstory, just so people don't have to read back over things I've written or other stuff.

Morgan is almost always (other than in Welsh sources were she doesn't get mentioned until Arthur is mentioned going to Morgan the Healer) the daughter of Igraine and Gorlois, who Malory calls Duke of Cornwall. She and her sister Morgause (and their sister Elaine who doesn't much show up in the stories) apparently had a good relationship with their father, since he's called a 'good man' pretty consistently. However, Gorlois appears to be a political rival of Uther Pendragon, for the more or less shaky throne.

The problem occurs when Uther invites Gorlois to a feast to work out an alliance, but on seeing his wife, Igraine, he immediately wants her. Igraine seems to notice his interest, and immediately runs to her husband, who immediately takes her at her word and leaves.

Uther declares war. And while he talks about betrayals and such, the real reason is he wants Igraine THAT bad.

However, since Gorlois is himself powerful, and Igraine is actually faithful to her husband, Uther employs Merlin to make him look like Gorlois. Some stories say that he kills Gorlois on the battlefield others say that it was in his own house. Regardless, he is taken for Gorlois and Igraine sleeps with him.

Uther later reveals himself as Uther, breaks the news that he killed Gorlois and that Igrain slept with HIM that night.

He pretty much forcibly marries Igraine, and sends Morgause to be married to his ally Lot and Morgan into a nunnery where she is later married herself (girls used to be educated in nunneries).

This is a motivation. Morgan has absolutely EVERY reason to hate Uther Pendragon, the man who killed her father, raped her mother and tore her happy family apart. She has every reason to struggle with her feelings for Arthur, moving between hating and aiding him, sewing the seeds of his destruction and then coming to save him. She has every reason to despise Guinevere who not only accused one of Morgan's lady's of adultery, but also throws the chance of the happy family Morgan can never reclaim in the dirt. She has every reason to hate Lancelot, who comes in to the same thing she saw Uther do.

What making Morgan as the daughter of Uther does is completely nullify her reasons and motives. It makes her a villain with a nearly incomprehensible motive. She wants to take over Britain but she couldn't do it anyways because she'd have to be a man and she wasn't going to hide that. She hates Artoria for particular reason other than 'she's in my way'. She just seems to be there because the story needed a villain. This utterly erases Morgan's pain and rage, and it seems like all it's there to do is exonerate Uther.

Uther's defining act, and the thing that Arthur is born from, is a horrific deed that should solidify him as a monster. He knew perfectly well Igraine wasn't interested, but he forced her to marry him anyways. By making it having never happened like that, it makes Uther a more heroic figure than anyone whose name is "the Terrible One" should ever be.

While, yes, artistic license is a thing and all that, this particular change is both pointless and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

So reddit got more PHH Morgan lore. First of all, she's actually Artoria's full blooded sister. When she was born, Gaia made her "the Child of Britain" who would inherit the island's mystery. The result was that she got three different split personalities like Kay mentioned: Morgan the human(Warrior), the fairy(Fairy), and the personification of Britain(Witch). Note: her Fairy self is named VIVIAN yes, LADY OF THE LAKE Vivian. According to Lancelot, Nimue, his mom, was an alias for Vivian so...

-Me: "So Nasu, which is it? Is Morgan Igraine's kid or Uther's kid?' Nasu: "... Yes."

-So basically Morgan's three bitches in PHH. I would have thought it was a gradual process from one to another but of course Nasu takes the fucking craziest and most metaphysical route possible just to clock me in the face.

-Well that explains the whole 'Evil Vivian' thing.

... Also-

Arturia: *at Gawain* You're Morgan's kid.

Arturia: *at Agravain* You're Morgan's kid. (Wish I wasn't)

Arturia: *at Gareth* You're Morgan's kid!

Arturia: *at Gaheris* You're Morgan's kid! (How'd I get here?!)

Arturia: *at Mordred* You're Morgan's AND my kid. (...Can you say that again?)

Arturia: IS THERE ANY MORE CHILDREN OF MORGAN IN MY COURT?!

Lancelot: ... Well...not biologically...but...

Arturia: ....

The Orkney Siblings: ...

Mordred: ... I'm not extending my family tree any further.

Also also-

Lancelot: My own mother tried to rape me...

Mordred: At least she gave a shit about you.

You know whole Morgan having three different personalities probably worked a bit bitter if it was more like Morgan the witch, Vivian, and Morgan the sister to Artoria were originally one person but something happened to her to split into three people that now lead different lives that played a hand in fate’s arthurian mythos

Sorry, but I seriously don’t agree. If you're just going to split them into three different people, keep them as three separate people in the first place. The issue of 'Morgan being Vivian' wasn't 'Morgan and Vivian can't exist in separate places and live different lives', it's that:

'Morgan being Vivian, combined with the condensed timespan of Fate's Arthurian mythos, opens up more questions than answers due to the established ages of the characters'

I was fine with Morgan having Vivian's authority, because characters borrow the 'authority' of some other character every other moment. But having Morgan actually be Vivian, therefore being Lancelot's adoptive mother, and ALSO being arbitrarily written to be Artoria's FULL sister rather than a partial sibling from an earlier relationship- it just makes things messy for no good reason.

And Morgan COULD have been 'The Lady of the Lake'. That's not a new concept- but it was a concept that worked when Morgan was... you know, allowed to be considerably older than Arthur in order for that to feasibly work. Especially considering all the pre-Arthur stuff that generally happened regarding Merlin, Vortigern, Uther, etc.

The Arthurian mythos, despite the name, didn't just... start with King Arthur. It's a story that requires setup, and Nasu wrote it so that the 'setup' is just a murky pit that requires logical jumps and purely ignoring other things in order to make it work. 

Nasu wants to have his cake and eat it to with every Arthurian character being both 'cool and young' and also having lived the full lives that encapsulated their stories, and it just makes things into a muddy mess once you look past the glamour of 'this sounds cool'. He wants to have the moral ambiguity of Morgan le Fay, but he didn’t give himself a proper setting to do so.

Note: I discuss details that suggest Morgan x Artoria in this post. Don't read if you're uncomfortable with the idea.

Artoria considers Kay her brother but she treats none of Morgan's children as her blood relatives. She calls none of her knights nieces or nephews let alone calling Mordred her son. Even as Morgan slapped Tristan with all the evil Gifts, she still calls her sister. In people's eyes, Lancelot is her most favorite knight/person. However when counting her inner thought, it's Morgan who she let get away with everything. Even when Mordred revealed the truth about her heritage, Artoria still acknowledged Morgan as her sister. She grew up with Kay, it's not difficult for her to call him brother. Arguably she wouldn't have known about Morgan until Merlin brought everyone's attention to Artoria. Morgan left when Camelot was built. Assuming they didn't meet in secret, Artoria spent less time with Morgan than with any of Morgan's children. Her wording to Mordred was specific. She could have used Morgan's name only or refers to her as the elder daughter of Uther Pendragon. She opted to call her sister. While Garden of Avalon described her as nothing more than a pebble in Artoria's path she at the same time couldn't injure Artoria's heart. Tristan left the Round table with harsh words to Artoria and that was enough to wound her heart. In Fate/Apocrypha, in the last conversation with her Master Mordred realized Artoria became king for 'the stones on the road side'. This calls back to Morgan being a pebble in Artoria's path, not that Mordred is aware of that comparison. The stones Mordred mentioned are the people of Britain and Artoria has a sense on obligatory duty to them. The pebble that is Morgan is one Artoria shows personal favoritism among all the ones she feel obligated to help and serve. Caster Artoria admitted to playing favoritism and that's not unique to her, all Artorias do that. While she is supposed to treasure all lives, she openly wants to kill Merlin. Either he finally crossed a line or he has messed with someone she plays favoritism toward. If one thinks Artoria is a merciless and inhuman king then everything Morgan did were of no consequenxe to Artoria. Taking into account of the mask she wears in front of everyone, nothing Morgan did made Artoria hates her. She blamed herself for Lancelot and Guinevere's affair, for Tristan's words, for her country's destruction. It's not out of her character to not fault Morgan for anything but that's only because she considers Morgan dear to her. To be fair, Morgan didn't force her into a similar situation with their uncle where either Artoria kills her or gets killed.

She has lines for Merlin, Gareth and Medb. Those lines of course hint at their appearance in LB6. At the same time, it suggests Caster Artoria spending time with Gareth before she went to become a knight. The other children of Morgan don't exist in LB6 or she didn't spend time with them. If the Round Table doesn't exist in LB6, why is she excited to see Gareth became a member? This could implicate that she spent time with Morgan for a good while in LB6.

She still says nothing about Morgan. Her profile mentions she hides her true feelings from everyone. She's quite open when we converse with her so the things she would want to hide would be very private and personal to her.

One detail stands out: the chocolate she claims to like. Would it even possible for chocolate to be there at that time period??? Before talking about chocolate, cacao plants don't grow in Britain. By normal means there's no chololate there. Artoria can't make it herself otherwise she would ask for ingredients rather than for the final product. Merlin can't make it since he doesn't have human sense of taste and she would have mentioned it was him who gave it to her. Semiramis turned her Hanging Garden into a chocolate factory once. She compared it to making poison. Her debut event had us helping her (chocolate self but identical to her in everyway) make chocolate. There were enough to nearly flood Chaldea. She also met MHA and got stumped by her attitude toward chocolate/sweet and poison although this is a minor detail. She is similar enough to Morgan for Mordred to refrain from outright badmouthing her at the end of Apocrypha event. It's highly likely Morgan gave chocolate to Artoria and if it's true, their relationship is good this time around. At the same time, if something happened and they are on the opposing sides again then it's a sad repeat of history.

Aside from Mordred, has anyone or her nieces or nephews actually called her aunt? To them, she's their king. Let's not forget the knights and Gawain - her nephew - tricked her into wearing that bunny outfit. That's another strange thing since as Ruler, not even Moriarty can fool Artoria. If I don't count the developers' intention, Artoria intentionally play the fool in a similar fashion to Nobu. As seen with X and XX however, her real mental process is different to others, taking even the silliest thing to be serious and that doesn't make sense to others not on the same wavelength as hers. Add to those is her willingness to believe those she trusts blindly. That could be viewed as her being fair and trying to listen to others. It's dubious at this point if any of them (except Mordred) views her as family seeing that Gawain doesn't spare her from his perversion. We also haven't gotten Morgan's POV yet.

Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou. (Higehiro: After Being Rejected, I Shaved and Took in a High School Runaway) - Sayu Ogiwara Dakimakura Covers (School Uniform ver. and Maid Swimsuit ver.) by Miyuki. Release: February 2024