Hahaha that character being there for good measurements and comparisons 😆
Yeah I think it's s fantastic how Odysseus has all the ingredients to easily fall into the Mary Sue category, and yet he's so well thought out and balanced with both strengths and weaknesses that he becomes engaging, he is very human and the perfect character to symbolize the human will to survive even while facing great odds and suffering! For sure he breaks with extreme sorrow, anger and guilt which is such a raw realistic reaction, his faith can also falter in the worst moments, and no matter how formidable he is, he is still at danger of being hurt and killed which makes the risks he faces very real and scary threats! And the fact that he can get over himself with his talents shows the downside of his confidence and yet it's that same confidence and determination that ensures his survival! (Yeah I also think that could be a a bit a stretch hehe)
Yeah even in the way Odysseus can be an actor which fits Diego a lot too hahaha oh man Caleb sure is! And that's probably why he fits so well living in the middle of the Tribal Galhots 😂 but gosh yes his honesty and his boldness jumping to danger hahaha yes the young old man haha oh man he is which makes it tragic how Caleb went through more suffering in his youth than in his older years!
Gosh the parallels are so good they just write themselves 😂
Hahahaha don't you love it when characters in the homeric poems go like;
Agamemnon the warrior and king and Menelaus who has loud war cry we have Ajax who is huge and freaking strong we have Nestor the amazing peace maker and diplomat and so on and so forth and while we have kings and mariners hither thither and finally we get Achilles, the one known being fast, best in war, great with spear and sword and somehow surpassing almost everyone at almost everything (usually war related) and a capable musician...
And then we have Odysseus 😂
Like wits that rival the gods, master mariner, expert with the spear and great archer fast and fierce despite his age, ultimate survivor, master of disguise a diplomat and a speaker, hunter, carpenter and builder schemer and actor master tactician and a freaking goddess magnet
Like...Homer my dude...leave some talents for the rest of the crew will ya??
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
As always your analysis and theories are such great food for thought and great inspiration as well ✨✨ despite the fact that I'm newer to the depth of Odyssey and Iliad than most people here it's somehow adds to the fun to explore it 😆
Jesus Christ just thinking about spending 11 days without sleep blows my mind! I had to spend a little more than 48 hours awake to finish some deadlines and I was already having blurred distorted vision! So to be in a stressful situation, in an environment that can become dangerous, plus trying to guard the thing that will help them get home from his own men, all that combined with his previous struggles and now extreme sleep deprivation?? Sounds like a special kind of hell! And not only that but almost like a sort of vicious cycle, because it could be indeed that the sleep deprivation itself was getting to Odysseus attitude as you theorize, which in turn could definitely influence his man's behavior as well.
Gosh but as said before the tension after his men opened the sack and they all got sent back must have been like a damn cloud over their heads for days! Someone was struggling not to kill 😂
That is a very good point, by guarding the sack in such a way Odysseus could definitely be making his men feel untrusted and even antagonized by their own leader, which would definitely trigger an hostile response in the form distrust right back at him, and the suspiscion of what he could possibly be hiding from them in such a manner. It did not help at all!
On the other hand the effects of sleep deprivation mixed with previous stress and anxiousness to be so close to home are such an interesting and human reaction from him! That's such a scary list, and I can definitely imagine it impacting Odysseus little by little the more he remains awake! And the more he becomes more violent and irritable yelling and such the more his men would feel like he was becoming a whole different person and get progressively more and more worried, irritated and suspicious in turn! Plus I can definitely imagine them indeed questioning his authority especially as his mental state becomes erratic with hallucinations!
His own insistence to do things alone and putting himself in such a situation definitely bit him back! It was very toxic behavior especially with himself and his health, which passed to his man, and despite his intentions it added to the disaster! Being the leader is definitely not easy since everyone is looking at you as an anchor, and if the anchor fails, everyone can drown pretty easily! Overall both sides had their fair points and their mistakes and flaws and ultimately that makes for an awesome compelling narrative! Awesome stuff girl!! ✨
And gosh for real! This is such brilliant inspiration for Caleb and the rebellion as well! Caleb is definitely the one to want to carry the burdens of his men, and many times he is putting himself through unhealthy toxic situations to do so! Can imagine him also not sleeping for days for many reasons! To keep watch, to protect provisions and his resting comrades, to go on into dangerous missions... And the stress and fear hitting him inside too! And it would definitely mess with his attitude and response to others as well 👀 And it also reminds me of Diego, in the times he was made to take charge, or later when he felt his ultimate sin and plan against Caleb about to be discovered!!
So it seems that the limits that we know so far is around 264 hours or just above 11 days of staying awake consequently. That is surprisingly just above what Odysseus did who stayed awake for 9 days or approximately 216 hours! That seems ironically accurate on Homer's part that it occured.
According to Homer's Odyssey, Odysseus remained awake for 9 consequent days, guarding the sack containing all the winds blowing over the Mediterannean (a gift of the god of winds, Aiolus). Overcome by fatigue, once the island of Ithaca came on sight Odysseus fell asleep but at that moment his men, thinking that the sack contains rich gifts, they opened it up, releasing all the winds out and pushing Odysseus back to the islands of Aiolus. Aiolus witnessing upon that sign of bad luck, he refused to help Odysseus again.
Now of course one might say why on earth wouldn't his men trust him when he told them not to open the sack and why were they so overcome by not just distrust but also greed? Well, apart from the symbolism of the Iliad, ironically their distrust was perfectly logical even if in a way misplaced. And here's why
Odysseus was guarding the sack
No matter what one says, Odysseus was still acting distrustful to THEM. In a way he felt like his warning was not enough and he needed to take some extra precaution. The fact that he was still feeling the need to guard the sack like a guard dog, because of his natural suspicious nature, made his men feel not trusted and therefore evn more suspicious of his behavior. Why all of the sudden their captain had his guard so high up? Why did he feel like he had to take extra precaution? Didn't their captain; the captain they spent almost 15 years together trust them anymore? What did he have to hide? This behavior drove them suspicious back thinking there was more to that story than what Odysseus was saying.
Behavioral changes due to sleep deprivation
Odysseus was sleep deprived, that much everyone could tell. However interestingly the signs of sleep deprivation might unsconsciously increased suspiciousness to the already tensed atmosphere. Some of the early signs of sleep deprivation are:
drowsiness
irritability
impaired decision-making
impaired judgement
altered perception
memory deficits
vision and hearing impairments
decreased hand-eye coordination
increased muscle tension
tremors
increased risk of accidents or near misses
Therefore already from the first two or three days without sleep, Odysseus's character began to swift due to fatigue. He was expected to become more irritable, more drowsy, having difficulty to concentrate and having tension to his muscles. He would become increasingly more and more aggressive in his reactions. The longer he stayed without sleep and one could expect
mtabolism disruptions
hallucinations
delusions
mood swings
risky behavior
decreased attention
inflexible reasoning
The more Odysseus remained without sleep, the more unpredictable he would become and the more suspicious and aggressive his behavior would be. Imagine if at some point some of his men would want to give him some food or drink and Odysseus violently pushing them away, yelling at them that he needs nothing but to be left alone. He would become more and more irritable by basic things even if those things had the kinder intentions.
He would seem more and more like a tiger in a cage, more and more paranoic about the precious sack he guarded; seemingly getting all the more anxious the closer they got to his beloved home. At some point if he actually got hallucinations (talking to things that aren't there or looking around like a madman) would also make his men suspicious on his capability to lead them if an emergency were to occur.
Therefore in his zeal to protect the sack at all costs, in his fixation upon doing everything himself, in his obsession with getting anxious and not trusting his own shadow, Odysseus made the bad decision to remain awake for so long that affected his mental and behavioral health, thus leading to more suspicion on his men's part to doubt his words and believing he was lying and that he was hiding gold and gems instead of their salvation. In a way Odysseus's obsession, just like all his plans, turned boomerang against him. Sleep deprivation made him aggressive. His aggressiveness was perceived as suspicious and his men didn't believe in him.
Still stupid on their part but one can understand their thoughts a bit. Having a captain that is slowly breaking guarding a seemingly precious sack rose plenty of suspicion. Of course that mistake costed them not only their home but also their life, but one can probably understand them a little.
I can definitely perceive that from what I have understood until now, and Achilles being the ultimate comparison is both interesting and amusing in some contexts haha
Definitely right on that hahaha and he does indeed And that's great because it makes Odysseus a relatable character to some degree while still making his talents quite outrageous in a good way! He is, his name says it all hahaha (oh boy I remember you telling me that! Quite the theory! 🤣) exactly the poor guy 😂 I meant too good in his skills rather than attitude but yes definitely that too! 😆
Yes, Caleb has his flaws but when it comes to grey areas Odysseus connects a lot to Diego, because Caleb has a very straightforward moral compass hahaha and that is true as well 😆 I got too used to drawing Caleb in his 30es for the main action of our story (and I'm having more and more fun with the silver locks version too 😆), but even that could be considered a "lad" compared to Odysseus I suppose hahaha especially since he gets to settle down yeah!
They have amazing similarities yes 😂 and I love how it didn't even happened on purpose hahaha
Hahahaha don't you love it when characters in the homeric poems go like;
Agamemnon the warrior and king and Menelaus who has loud war cry we have Ajax who is huge and freaking strong we have Nestor the amazing peace maker and diplomat and so on and so forth and while we have kings and mariners hither thither and finally we get Achilles, the one known being fast, best in war, great with spear and sword and somehow surpassing almost everyone at almost everything (usually war related) and a capable musician...
And then we have Odysseus 😂
Like wits that rival the gods, master mariner, expert with the spear and great archer fast and fierce despite his age, ultimate survivor, master of disguise a diplomat and a speaker, hunter, carpenter and builder schemer and actor master tactician and a freaking goddess magnet
Like...Homer my dude...leave some talents for the rest of the crew will ya??
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh gosh definitely a good point every single one of them has their own strong characteristic, or a trait that makes them stand out and even Achilles who is known to have more than your couple of excelling talents. But here comes the one and only King of Ithaca, the guy who only wanted to stay home and chill with his family, and yet he just has a never ending list of killer traits, skills and talents! No wonder he is always being called to clean everyone's meses poor guy is to good for his own well being 🤣
And of course this is the perfect inspo for the cheesy boy! Poor rebel leader who also just wanted a nice calm family life (thankfully he gets it at the end!) and was pushed back and forth in a war and 10000 struggles more 😂 who also has a tactical brain too sly and smart for his own good 🤣👌👌 And always followed by his quirky crazy crew too!
Hahahaha don't you love it when characters in the homeric poems go like;
Agamemnon the warrior and king and Menelaus who has loud war cry we have Ajax who is huge and freaking strong we have Nestor the amazing peace maker and diplomat and so on and so forth and while we have kings and mariners hither thither and finally we get Achilles, the one known being fast, best in war, great with spear and sword and somehow surpassing almost everyone at almost everything (usually war related) and a capable musician...
And then we have Odysseus 😂
Like wits that rival the gods, master mariner, expert with the spear and great archer fast and fierce despite his age, ultimate survivor, master of disguise a diplomat and a speaker, hunter, carpenter and builder schemer and actor master tactician and a freaking goddess magnet
Like...Homer my dude...leave some talents for the rest of the crew will ya??
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣