So I Kind Of Want To Unpack This Because It's Phrased Like The Literary Equivilant Of Barbed Wire And

So I kind of want to unpack this because it's phrased like the literary equivilant of barbed wire and people keep getting caught on snags. And what is being said here is heinous enough that I think it should be presented plainly

(A solid post on the topic here by @velvetvexations, who got into the psychology of it. I wanted to expand from a logic/phrasing perspective)

Lets tackle that second paragraph piece by piece

First, this sentence which is objectively true. Cisgender perisex* women have systematic cisgender privilege, so, for example they aren't affected by things like restrictions on access to HRT/Transition Surgery or being forcibly outed to transphobic individuals or institutions. While they can still experience individual transphobia(see gnc presenting individuals), they still have access to that systemic cisgender privilege. I just want to put a pin in the fact that this is true of all cis people over all trans people. Trans people of any kind do not have cis privilege, because they are not cis. Including closeted and stealth trans individuals. To use my own example, both of them would be affected by restrictions to HRT access, even if they are "percieved" as cis.

So when I say cis privilege later on keep all that in mind

Statement A: Cis women have privilege over trans women

*I am not intersex, it is just my understanding from reading intersex individuals experiences that while intersex people can be cis, they do not have access to the cisgender privilege outlined here. Please correct me if I am wrong

She says this to deflect from the fact that that is the conclusion she is directly going to build to. It's about the same as saying "I'm not saying men of color are uniquely violent, I'm just pointing out that statistically they commit most crime"

Now lets unpack the less straightforward part

A reminder: this isn't about closeted trans men. It would still be reductive if it were, but look back at the original ask. This is about all non-passing trans men

(Though both the asker and answerer seem to use "passing" as a synonym for "stealth". you can pass but not be stealth, plenty of trans people are out publically)

(An aside: The language the asker uses here seems pretty suspect, treating "non-passing" as identical to being percieved as cis. While we could argue that they meant closeted, the answerer does not contest this point and instead uses it as the base to opine on trans men as a whole, so I am going to make the assumption that she is in agreement with the base premise)

Statement B: All non-passing trans men are percieved and treated identically to cis women.

As noted re:the askers uncontested language, this group seems to include trans men at any stage of transition. Either they pass as men or they are considered cis women, with no inbetween.

Statement C: This is a privilege

Statement C is one of the snags here, because the answerer uses "male privilege" here, which when combined with Statement B can be read as "cis women have male privilege", which is absurd. But thats a snag, the meat of the statement is different. She's calling it male privilege but goes on to define it as a privilege specifically and exclusively trans women don't have, which isn't what male privilege is(see: cis women). Why she is using the phrase wrong I don't know, but lets just simplify it down to what Statement C says: it is a privilege of some form. We will get into the form

Statement D: Trans women do not have this privilege because they are seen as trans

So the privilege is conferred based on being cis(or the appearance of), and non-passing trans men have it because they are "only" seen as functionally identical to cis women.

So, trans women lack this privilege because they are discriminated against on the basis of being seen as trans specifically, while trans men have it because they are seen as cis. Discrimination based on being trans is transphobia.

Statement E: Trans men do not experience transphobia because they are seen as cis

Consider in the context of the first statement. Cis women have privilege over trans women. Trans men have privilege over trans women because cis women have privilege over trans women. Cis women have this privilege because they are cis, so calling it male privilege was an obfuscation

And this part puts to bed the whole "maybe they meant closeted" arguement. The answerer identifies that the privilege specifically stems from transmasculinity.

Thus,

Statement F: All trans men, regardless of the stage of transition, are seen as cis because they are transmasculine.

Conclusion: Trans men have cis privilege

Do we see how this arguement has become completely disconnected from reality yet?

And this isn't part of the original exchange, but I wanted to quickly discuss this bit

"May have been traumatic and horrible for you"

"You still get to be one"

Look at the phrasing here. You still "get" to be one. Womenhood is the ideal state which confers privilege and is inherently desirable. If you don't want it, there is something wrong with you specifically. Womanhood cannot be traumatizing on its own merits, it can only be traumatizing because you are broken in some way and can't appreciate how good it is.

In a quick two sentences, it makes clear the incredibly cruel statement "misgendering is a privilege. you should be grateful they are doing this to you"

More Posts from Yanattheloom and Others

yanattheloom

1 month ago

This post by catgirlforeskin has nearly 1500 notes as of the moment, so as a trans woman and transfeminist myself, I'm going to provide some context on where this is coming from.

Firstly, it's obviously a deliberate lie because T4T just plain never meant transbians exclusively. That's just objectively not true and no one has ever once produced any evidence to the contrary.

We can tell it's disingenuous he constant whining about completely inane shit and bang out such comically over the top maudlin trash over how "personally upsetting" it is inevitably always comes from people like the OP, which is to say, absolutely holy fuck massive transphobes.

As an aside, TRFs seem incapable of realizing that gay disabled trans men of color exist. I'm sure that doesn't play a part in their conceptualizing all trans men as being essentially cishet White men.

Then, of course, to further sell this, they'll continue to make excuses for why it's okay when they're transphobic, such as when OP answered this question about the term th**fab:

Again, there's the immediate issue that this is a lie, other trans people are generally not any crueler to us than we are to them, I cannot emphasize enough that the idea behind the justification for th**fab is just completely fucking made up, but the bigger picture here is how these two things are framed.

Other trans people are cruel to trans women. Trans women are partaking in a "half-hearted way of hitting back."

The self-infantilization in the name of denying one is capable of harm is gross, but what else is new. Trans women are innocent fragile babies with paper skin and glass bones who can't do anything because they're just too pitifully weak. Poor dolls. Boohoo, the poor dolls.

TRFs might, occasionally, say they don't necessarily approve of trans women using it in this way, but understand the frustration that leads to it. Which is not really the gentle, nuanced take you'd expect of someone who randomly called all non-binary people in general that word in the process of asserting that they're too unfuckable to have problems like trans women do.

Which, as a side-note, is also the cause of the false claim about the term femboy. Supposedly everyone else is just acting out their fantasies of trans women but just don't want to say they're trans women. It can't be that some people simply like boys who crossdress.

Can someone tell me what OP, self-admittedly not a "woman who's completely in the grip of the sorta bitterness and despair that leads to that way of acting sometimes," was calling out as transmisogynistic in that screencap? Anyone? Can someone work that puzzle out? It's funny these folks seem determined to rewrite history on that one but are just totally a-okay with saying c***tboys should commit suicide.

The point of the post is this: Do not listen to these people. Never let them tell you trans men weren't there from the beginning playing just as much a part in shaping trans culture as anyone. Do not let yourself be guilted. Do not let their constant unbearable affected angst affect you or your choices. And especially do not let it affect how you see yourself, or your position in the community. Anyone saying otherwise will always be coming from a place of bigotry.

There are no sincere concerns, real wounds, or genuinely upset feelings about catboys supposedly being a rip off of catgirls, which, by the way, would not be transfem-originated anyway just like forcefem isn't. Resist the urge to allow people to tell you to give up pieces of yourself or things that make you happy on baseless accusations of appropriation.

Any trans women who cares about you, which is by far the vast majority of us, will tell you this in a heartbeat.

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yanattheloom

5 months ago

madebyjackiebieber

9K notes View Post

yanattheloom

10 months ago

Transfem oppression: yeah the other day this jealous cis girl told me I have an obvious adam's apple and that I'll never be a real woman and now I wanna die because I'm not pretty like the other girls!!!

Transmasc oppression: yeah the other day this guy that had a crush on me in high school found out I transitioned and now he keeps texting me begging me to detransition for him, and he somehow found out where I live and where I work, and he keeps sending me rape threats. Also yesterday I went to the men's restroom and I almost got raped but thankfully my friend walked in before anything happened. Thank god nothing happened especially because if I got pregnant I'd get no treatment cause I already changed the gender marker on my birth certificate.

See how stupid that was? See how when I talked about "transfem oppression" I cherry picked a specific issue that mostly affects white binary trans women, completely overlooking the experiences of trans women of color and non-binary transfems. See how this post willfully ignores the very real violence that happens to transfems? See how this doesn't help transmascs at all and only undermines transfems. See how this implies that cis men only target transmascs, and that cis women are incapable of violence?

Wow it's almost as if we don't have to gaslight one group and undermind their experiences in order to talk about the experiences of the other... Funny that.

4K notes View Post

yanattheloom

9 months ago

am i real?

post by : @playingonmydsi <3

18K notes View Post

yanattheloom

7 months ago

one of the best lines in ttyd imo

23K notes View Post

yanattheloom

4 months ago

"america has been sliding into fascism since trump was elected" "america has been sliding into fascism since Reagan" the founding fathers owned people.

38K notes View Post

yanattheloom

1 month ago

Unfortunately I recognise her and yes she is that one

what the fuck

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yanattheloom

2 months ago

this might just be because i'm a tee-em-ee or wtv but personally. if i'm being 100% genuine. i think "transmascs have an innate biological want to return to their birth sex and become terfs" is more bioessentialist than "transfems are capable of hurting other people because transfems are people, and people are capable of hurting others"

edit: some dumbass bitch called me a nazi and a fascist for this post. btw

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yanattheloom

4 months ago