Like Genuinely If You're Into Forcefem And You Were AMAB You Should Actually Shut The Fuck Up Whenever

Neon Green Alien stimboard for anon!

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Coming from a middle eastern genderqueer, imo the whole thing is less 'transwomen calling TMEs theyfabs is like black people calling white people crackers' and a lot more 'transwomen calling TMEs theyfabs is like black people calling middle easterns camel fuckers.' (Obligatory these groups aren't exclusive, you can come from the middle east and be black or be mixed middle eastern and black.)

Like. Sure there's a lot of stuff about black people that the vast majority of middle easterns do not and will not understand. Sure there is a lot of anti black sentiments held by many middle easterns. Sure you can go ahead and say that this slur does not have the history or gravity of the n-slur, so it's not the same. You can even argue that because colorism affects your average black person far more than your average middle eastern, that the racism they face is simply a lesser version of the racism black people face.

But here's the thing.

Even if all of that is true, it does not justify calling me a camel fucker. You are still being fucking racist when you call me a camel fucker! You are being racist! Towards another racial group that also deeply suffers under the same systems that make black people suffer! I understand the frustration towards racist middle easterns but that does not make it okay! Some rhetoric that hurts them may not hurt me and vice versa, but we are still both suffering from a racist society, and there's also a lot of overlap in our experiences when we focus less on generalisations and more on specific instances! Yes it's important to address anti black sentiments within the general middle eastern population, I am all for that and I think it's important, and it's part of why I hate when people focus on white people and not nonblack people when it comes to talking about anti black sentiments BC that is NOT exclusively a white people thing.

But quite frankly if you are calling me a camel fucker and telling me to shut up about my own issues because you think you've got it worse and then claim if I'm upset about being called a camel fucker it just proves I'm racist, or if you say it's okay to call me a camel fucker because you've had a lot of bad experiences with middle easterns and I gotta prove I'm 'one of the good ones' by nodding my head and smiling, then I'm sorry, but you are the racist in that scenario, and I am not shutting up. I am still going to defend black people with my whole heart but holy shit you are being racist and I do not have to take that sort of verbal abuse. Thank god this isn't an actual thing that has happened (the justification for being called a camel fucker, I have been called a camel fucker by black people).

Except even then this analogy is flawed because I think trans people of all slices have WAY more in common with their experiences than black people and middle easterns AND I think the trans community does a lot more to try and understand each other than middle easterns and black people try to understand each other. But it sure as fuck is more accurate than comparing it to black people calling white people crackers.

(Sorry if any of this is worded weird, I am on mobile and not used to it)

The issue is that they're barely willing to agree AFAB trans people have any problems literally at all and what they do admit is "I guess sometimes TERFs care about them too much and out of overwhelming but misguided love occasionally do things that inconvenience them".

I've been constantly accused of being trans for sex reasons since I was like 12 (and so have so many trans men and mascs I know!) so I just do NOT believe that autoandrophilia is applied to transmascs less. on a personal level, I just don't talk about it because no one ever takes me seriously which seems indicative of a problem imo

we might be dangerously close to acknowledging trans men also face challenges in society

Official Japan Exclusive, GBA (Game Boy Advance) Celebi Console released in 2001

Hey since theres some stuff about transandrophobia theory going on anyway:

Does anyone have any specifically transandrophobia book recs?

I already got my hands on Leslie Feinbergs "stone butch blues" but since i have never been a lesbian and am into men its not exactly want im looking for yk; bell hooks "men, masculinity and love" seems to not include discussions about trans men at all and s. bear bergman "butch is a noun" as far as i could tell would still be based on trans men/mascs with connections to lesbianism (which i still dont have)

I lucky own a copy of thomas page mcbees "man alive" and cooper lee bombardiers "handle with care" but i cant find anything else besides eyeing lou sullivans dairys (again non of these books are theory, theyre all memoiren)

My local queer-feminist book store only had biographies (no novels, theory or other genres) featuring trans men when i first asked and they only brached out bc i specifically asked (which is imo embarrasing for them but whatever) and even they dont seem to find theory about transandrophobia easily

Any help/ideas on where to look?

"Transandrophobia isn't real because that implies trans women oppress trans men" it doesn't, but do you think this way because you think transmisogyny means trans men oppress trans women?

"Transandrophobia is reactionary to transmisogyny and is just a way to make trans men feel special and more important" it isn't, but do you think that way because you think Transmisogyny is more "special and important" than other forms of oppression?

"Androphobia and misandry aren't real, so transandrophobia can't be" because you're basing your viewpoint on transmisogyny, and misogyny is the ultimate victimhood for you, right? Because we can't have a conversation separate from transmisogyny, because transmisogyny is the worst form of victimization, and everything stems from misogyny, especially transmisogyny. If you're not talking about misogyny, you might as well shut up.

And we can't have issues that aren't shared with cis people, because otherwise we aren't "really" men and women. Because white cishet people are the ones we should be looking to when we "prove" our identity through our suffering, right?

To be a woman, you have to suffer. To be a man, you can never suffer. You can never just be. You have guilt and shame and violence and self sacrifice to be doing if you dare to transition into power.

Because if you, a trans man, don't have male privilege, that must mean that trans women do, because we all live in opposite to eachother, even though the framework of male privilege is something made by and for cis people. If trans women are suffering, that must mean that you aren't.

You can't talk about your own life or struggles or else you're indirectly talking about trans women, and cis men, and cis women, and everyone else except you.

(And fuck non-binary and intersex people and whatever they have going on with their identities that shits just not important to our oppositional viewpoint, right? We can make them fit in this box based off of their genitals, anyway. Dont bring racism into this either, you're just being misogynistic if you do.)

and they will cup your face in their warm palms, trace the tiredness sleeping on your cheeks with their thumbs, whispering everything that you ever needed to hear. you'll feel found. you'll feel seen. you'll feel loved.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

I fell asleep in my friends' arms. It was eleven at night, we were tired, curled up in a small pile on my tiny bed. I had my head buried in my roommate's side, and one of my closest friend's hand on my shoulder, steadying me. It was quiet and nothingness and peace and their heartbeats in my ears, my hands in their hair.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

We pack four people to that little bed, you know. Laps used as footrests, collarbones as pillows, little lights like moonlight in rustic yellow bathed on their faces. The TV plays an anime. The words are repeated by my dear friend on my shoulder, curled close. My legs are asleep; my roommate may be, too.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

The cat curls on top of our criss cross mess of legs and arms and heads on chests to absorb the warmth of us all. She purrs in contented peace. When my roommate and I are left alone in the quiet, she cries, and watches the door for our friends' return.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

I will never kiss them but the top of their heads. I will never touch but the warmth of their arms. I will never take more than what's freely given, and in return I put my glasses on the bedside table fashioned from a guitar amp, and when I lean into their sides, I pick up my vulnerability and place it in their capable, tender hands.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

I sing for them. I cry for them. I work and I run and I withstand the worst of the world for them, because some days I get to cradle their forehead on my shoulder and some days I get to see their shining eyes.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

Maybe to you. But look beyond explanation. I love them. With my heart in my unsteady hands, with my nose pressed to the side of their head, with the buzzing in my feet and the warmth all around Iike the sunset pushing into the window.

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

Is it enough to say I love them? With no strings attached? With reckless abandon and utter devotion and freedom and kindness and fear?

"there is no platonic explanation for this--"

I cannot explain it any clearer. I love my friends. There is no more to say.

Emerald Roach

u/Necessary-File-8774 on Reddit