THE PROMISE

A question about Kingdom Hearts, but can be for other stuff too. Do you think some important context or subtext is lost in the translation process from Japanese to a second language, even if it's translated to the best of a translator's ability, and if so, do you prefer a more literal translation over an official dub?

Hello! Thanks for the ask.

To answer the first question, there's different points to be made given the case by case nature of the topic. Important or simply interesting (these are not the same thing) information absolutely can be lost in the process of translation, but there's a lot of things fans need to understand:

Per discussion, is it actually lost, whether in the specific line or that of the overall context elsewhere?

Is the meaning actually *important* or imperative for understanding context [subtext]?

If lost, is it something that could've been localized creatively within the limitations of its presentation (voice acting/lip-sync, text space, etc.)?

Was it something that couldn't even be translated literally within the corresponding localized language? And/or did it not naturally flow into the writing of the actual scene itself for the given language?

Keep in mind that some interesting nuances built within a language system is really tailored for THAT language, and doesn't have to (or can't be) be transferred to another language smoothly in the production process of localization—if it's actually important, they might have to find a way, and chances are a literal translation may not even be enough to accomplish this. So to the second question—it isn't really “literal” vs localization for me, because whether one or both of these things can get the job done is circumstantial. Ultimately, what I care about most is whether what is written makes sense and can still be seen to retain what matters contextually (and sometimes, this means you can even get MORE or something more direct from a localization as opposed to “literal”). I’m using “ “ because really, you don’t want literal, for the majority of the text, it just doesn’t work that way as smoothly as people think. But I understand sometimes literal is actually “close to definition as possible” for people. (sometimes, indeed)

Anyway, if there is an issue with what's written, I know a "literal" translation doesn't always solve the inherent factors dependent upon the specific nature of the JPN language. The "literal" definition doesn't always fully capture how the Kanji is contextually used in the writing for another language. If I ever felt something was completely missed within a localization, my instinct is to first check the nature of the JPN and how it's written contextually to see how it fairs.

Of course, if it's information that isn't really based on the nature of the Kanji and how it's used, that it's something just being misunderstood in translation, then that isn't even a matter of whether it was literal or not—it was just wrong, and could've been right in any form if the text was understood (meaning, I'd take it literal or localized as long as the information is correct). In comparison to the amount of important storytelling text actually localized in video game projects, this doesn't nearly happen that often, though.

To look at Kingdom Hearts:

There have been many, many examples, especially between #1 and #2 discussed within fandom over the last 20 years. lol The majority is very miniscule and inconsequential (if even non-existent of a difference with proper understanding)—in KH3 I tend to think of some scenes between Sora and Kairi that has been discussed. @phoenix-downer has some excellent JPN/ENG comparisons of Sora and Kairi's Paopu Fruit and Light in the Darkness scenes (plus more) that serve some examples—Phoenix might be more readily able to remember some things over the years than I. There’s also this line from Xemnas about finding the Ancient Keybladers in KH3—this one can reasonably create a misunderstanding, but at the same time we don’t exactly have all the information at this point in time anyway.

One thing I do tend to think of is the scene between Aqua/Terra/Ven and the Disney Passes—where the term hogosha 保護者 (guardian, protector, patron, parent) is used in JPN, while in ENG it was written as "grown ups". There's a subtext here that has been missed by some ENG speakers. Similar to #4 (about literal translations), this is one of those cases where contextually speaking, the ENG went with what made sense for the scene and all factors corresponding to it, while still retaining something similar to the concept context-wise. As you can see based on the definition, the term hogosha is very flexible in use due to its span of multiple different words, but in its usage, it always has the connotation of something "parental". But, translating it as straight up "parent(s)" doesn't always work because of the nuances of the word. e.g. From FFXIII, Lightning is a hogosha to Serah, but this isn't to say that Lightning is literally her parent/mom—the contextual nature of hogosha tells more than this but with the same connotation. Sometimes it can be directly "parents/legal guardians", like how it's used to refer to what is essentially PTA school meetings (hogoshakai 保護者会). There's a reason why hogosha is distinct from just more direct words for parent (like oya 親 or ryoushin 両親).

This flexible nuance isn't readily and neatly packaged in a single word in ENG, however, and while, say, “guardian” [parental] can fit in some situations on its own, the connotation of parental isn’t so readily available like it is for hogosha alone. (A good example is this post I made) So, contextually there are other ways to capture it, and that may have to be with a non-literal translation. But, its meaning was missed by some ENG speaking fans, so when they hear "Aqua and Terra are like parents to Ven", they have no idea where that's coming from. Of course, some people were able to understand how this is carried contextually by the word "grown ups" and the situation of the Disney Passes—otherwise, some people completely missed that parental nuance, which would be significant of representing the relationship between Aqua/Terra to Ven.

Sometimes it isn't a localization issue, but a perception one.

With that being said, if in the case of other fandoms/series? It's all over the place. I've seen it all, between something being lost (important or just interesting [unimportant]), something being a mistranslation, or something being retained and people are honestly just trippin' because of misunderstanding things. Straight up. #4 (literal translation/context issues) happens a lot, in that case.

For example, recently I made this post and a follow up post about functionalities of JPN pronouns for (I, me) and the differences that lay there—there's also an extra layer I think I didn't include, which is that between using a specific pronoun in the form of hiragana/kanji/katakana, sometimes it's a stylistic choice as well. (Don't worry about this if you're confused lol). Point is, in this situation I also talked about how this was something that only applies for the JPN language and not necessarily others (especially ENG).

But again, a lot of this is case by case and we'd have to consider the #1-4 above, and for me, I know that to get the job done, it doesn't even have to be literal in order for this to happen.

As an extra note, fans REALLY need to understand localization, if even for SE specifically, to really talk about it efficiently. A lot don’t, and don’t care to. There is a sea of information to gather to form a perspective, and if they had this information, it’d change what they think about the “changes” a localization will make. One of the most blunt translators I can think of (Tom Slattery) gave this thought towards this very topic, and it’s just the tip of the iceberg. So I’ll leave it with this:

Vocal fans on the internet often complain about translators "changing" things in the English versions of games. This always amuses me, as we're very often working alongside the team to help name those things in the first place. For example, on Final Fantasy XIII, we were asked to help with the naming of the roles--Medic, Synergist, Ravager, and so on. We were intending to use different names in Japan and the US/EU from the start, and we (the English translators) brainstormed and proposed both sets. For the Japanese version, they needed English words that (A) sounded cool when rendered into Japanese, and (B) would be understood by non-English-speaking Japanese players, so we worked with the writers to come up with a set of consistent-sounding terms that met those criteria. For the localized version, our focus was on creating names that would have a more sci-fi feel to a native speaker's ear, and also abbreviate to three letters in a way that looked natural and made the short forms quickly and easily distinguishable from one another. We didn't "change" anything; we just generated two different sets of names for two different audiences.

Retroactive integration of the English translation into the Japanese version happens on projects quite often as well. For example, we were asked to come up with a translation for the names of the transporters in the Nautilus theme park. The Japanese name at the time was not something that really worked for us, so we went with "Nautilift." A few weeks later, that started popping up in the Japanese script. That kind of thing is always a huge compliment. It's a collaborative process. No one is going out stomping all over each other's work just for the heck of it.

Why Tifa is the only person, living or dead, who can resolve Cloud’s crisis

Alternate title: “What really happened in the Lifestream”

Of course the Lifestream scene has been discussed to death within the fandom. While some consider it one of the greatest triumphs of the Cloud/Tifa relationship and the game in general, others are quick to diminish its events and Tifa’s role. “Oh, any other childhood friend character who knew Cloud could do the job.” “Oh, Cloud only needed Tifa as moral support, he could have figured everything out himself.” “Oh, Aerith (maybe +Zack) could have done it by accessing her Cetra/time machine/empath/Planet powers.”

The Lifestream sequence is extraordinarily dense with many subtle visual cues, so there’s a lot to untangle and interpret. But no matter how you slice it, any take which downplays or eliminates Tifa is fundamentally missing the point of this scene, both for the plot and for Cloud’s character arc.

A lot of the confusion stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of what actually needs to happen in the Lifestream and why. Thus, using specific details from the sequence, I’d like to present my take on the following:

Part 1: What Cloud needs to accomplish in the Lifestream to advance the plot

Part 2: Why Tifa is the only person, living or dead, who can resolve Cloud’s crisis, where we will discuss fun things such as:

Why Tifa is the the focus of his greatest flaw

What Tifa’s presence in the Lifestream accomplishes

Part 3: Why those “Tifa-less” fan theories just can’t work

This is a very long ride so let’s get to it!

Continua a leggere

This is one of the sweetest and most heartwarming details of the whole game.

Barret wears a necklace with two tags, his and Marlene's and, thanks to the mods, now we can finally see what's written on Marlene's:

"I love you more than anything"

🥰❤️

Source!

Talk about a coincidence!

(Previous post here)

Aerith and Tifa parallel 

Eyes are the window to the soul

Cloud has the so-called Mako-Eyes, due to Mako infusion treatment. This is normally a distinctive mark of SOLDIERS and during the game many characters notice them: President Shinra, Reno, Rude, Elmyra...

Aerith

Aerith commenting about Cloud’s eyes was an important plot point of the OG as it was the first hint about her connection with Zack.

This dialogue takes place when they escape from the church across the rooftops of Sector 5 slums.

The devs decided to change this scene for the Remake and replace it with one that recreates step by step a romantic moment between Aerith and Zack from Crisis Core (for those who don’t know what I’m talking about, 0:13).

When Cloud and Aerith arrive in Evergreen Park, a place that's special for her, she starts talking about Zack and her cheerfulness fades away for the first time.

Zack’s name causes Cloud one of his migraine attacks. When he opens his eyes again she comments about their beauty and when he points out that’s because of the Mako she just sais “...I know”.

Tifa

In Chapter 3 Johnny is arrested by Shinra Public Security and Cloud and Tifa have to intervene to make sure he doesn’t talk about Avalanche. Cloud seems to have no hesitation to kill Johnny but Tifa stops him. 

This is the first time during the game where she openly states how much he’s changed and, coincidentally, she does it commenting about his eyes. Of course she’s not talking about their color. Here too he answers in a similar way, saying it's because of the Mako, to which she replies “I remember...”.

---

To sum up

Aerith:

likes SOLDIER eyes

because they remind her of Zack, the guy she loved.

She gets sad because she misses Zack.

In Crisis Core Mako eyes were described as “color of the sky - but not scary at all”.

Tifa: 

doesn’t like SOLDIER eyes

because they are different from those of the guy she had a crush on.

She gets sad because she misses the Cloud of 7 years ago.

The camera focuses on his eyes while she says that he’s scaring her.

...

WAIT! 

The devs can’t be saying that SOLDIER-Cloud is NOT real-Cloud, that Aerith likes his Zack-side and that real-Cloud doesn’t use to cut civilians in half with a massive sword...

... Right?!

What an unexpected & unexplainable coincidence!

The care for details..

The Crab Warden stored in the corkscrew tunnel is the same weapon that killed Melphie during the Wutai war.

"With you by my side, I'll never give up no matter how bad it gets."

Study i got carried away with

Facts.

I love the Kyrie sidequests because every time Cloud rolls up and goes "Stop that. You're disgracing the noble and honorable occupation of being a mercenary." and then proceeds to fix boilers and find lost chickens

This is absolutely the BEST GS date analysis I've ever seen, thank you for this great post!

Interrupted by Fireworks: the illusion over darker realities

Players love the dates for many reasons: it’s the culmination of their hard work with the affection mechanic, a silly interlude after hours of tension, an opportunity to bond with their character of choice. A sweet moment in time isolated from the heavier themes of the game.

But what if I told you that Tifa and Aerith’s dates are not just cute little flashes of fan service? That both dates are part of a broader arc highlighting how the girls recognize, confront, and decide to react to the reality of Cloud’s mental issues? 

And what if I told you that “Interrupted by Fireworks” is not just the pretty Big Date song? That “Interrupted by Fireworks” serves as an important tool in threading this arc together and setting our romantic expectations stupidly high so they can be cruelly subverted later?

Well wonder no more, as that’s what we’ll be discussing today! Cut for an image-heavy, script-heavy post.

Continua a leggere