My Response To Someone Asking Me To Clarify Why I Say Cloud Can't Have Been In Love With Aerith After

Having a comfort character is great and I think it’s fine to have one but if you can’t handle someone politely saying that they don’t like that character or giving criticism of them that’s probably something to bring up in your next therapy session.

easy. lmao

CUTE FS WALLPAPER FOR THE SCHOOL EVENT WITH THE BABIES AJDHDSJ

AND WE GET ANOTHER FS CHAPTER IN JUNE THANK GOODNESS

Aerith and Tifa as Sephiroth’s Foils

There are a lot of moving pieces to Final Fantasy 7–something that has historically contributed to its infamous reputation of being confusing. But one consistent thematic pattern that FF7 utilizes is duality. Life and death. Meetings and partings. Loneliness and togetherness. Many of the main themes presented in FF7 fall into this same format. Even the characters can be considered dualities in and of themselves. One of the most obvious dualities in the game is that of Aerith and Sephiroth. However, in varying degrees, all of the main characters are in some way antithetical to Sephiroth.

Like in many other classic hero vs. villain tales, you’d think that Cloud is the perfect foil to Sephiroth–after all, they’re at odds, so it would make sense that they’d be opposites. However, what makes Cloud and Sephiroth’s conflict so fascinating is that they actually have a good amount in common. Both Cloud and Sephiroth struggle with their identities. They also experienced trauma and loneliness in the past, and tended to isolate themselves from others. It’s this commonality that actually makes them compelling rivals, as Cloud not only has to battle Sephiroth, but also the aspects of Sephiroth that Cloud himself struggles with.

The real foils of Sephiroth are Aerith and Tifa. While there is some debate as to whether Aerith or Tifa is the real heroine of FF7 (mostly spear-headed by weird LTD-pushers), the big-brained answer is that they’re both the heroines. This is evident in concept art from an older FF7 Ultimania, pictured below: 

As you can see, the concept for the story’s heroine started out as a hybrid of Tifa and Aerith. The character’s design resembles Tifa, and the name below the sketch reads “ティファ”, or Tifa. However, the character’s role was very different. She was intended to be both the childhood friend of Cloud Strife and a Cetra, the sister of Sephiroth (who originally looked more like Vincent). Eventually, the idea to kill off one of the main characters was introduced, and the role of the heroine was split in two: the Cetra, Aerith, and the childhood friend, Tifa. There is some evidence of the original concept still present in the series; Tifa’s iconic red eyes match Vincent’s, because originally, the two characters were designed to be siblings before eventually going to separate roles.

Based on this evidence, it would seem logical that both Aerith and Tifa retained their dualities with Sephiroth. And, indeed, even in the final product, both characters provide a foil for Sephiroth to balance the scales.

To exemplify the dynamic that Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth have with one another, I’ve drawn a (crude) spectrum:

Obviously, Aerith and Tifa play different roles and have different importance to the story. Aerith’s role is more “big picture”, so to speak. She is responsible for the Planet and for protecting it from Sephiroth after discovering his plans to destroy it. Tifa’s role is more fine-tuned and detailed. She is the rock and the only stable element of the Nibelheim story, a key part of Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth’s backstories. To understand how each of them foils Sephiroth, we have to look at them individually and analyze how they interact with both Sephiroth and Cloud.

Part I: Aerith as Sephiroth’s Foil

As stated above, Aerith’s role as foil is a little more obvious. Sephiroth and Aerith are both “Cetra”–or, at the very least, they both claim to be. For Sephiroth, his identity as a Cetra is tied to his belief that Jenova, his “mother”, was a Cetra who was betrayed by humanity when humans left the traditional Cetra nomadic lifestyle in order to colonize the land and the Planet. 

However, Jenova was not a Cetra at all–she was actually a “calamity from the skies” that crashed down and created the Northern Crater two thousand years before the events of FF7. After encountering the Cetra, the creature known as Jenova began infecting and killing the Cetra one by one. These killings only stopped when the Cetra banded together to seal Jenova in the Northern Crater; but, by the time it was done, the Cetra were dying off.

So how did Jenova become known as a Cetra? That seems like more than a clerical error to me. It was actually Aerith’s father, Professor Gast, who uncovered Jenova from the Northern Crater and mistakenly identified her as a Cetra. The Shinra Corporation, desperate to find the Cetra’s “Promised Land” thinking that it would be rich in Mako energy, enlisted the professor to find a way to create a Cetra from a human specimen. Using the cells extracted from Jenova, Sephiroth was created, and after reading Shinra’s archives, he discovered his relationship to Jenova and embraced his identity as “Cetra”. 

Aerith, on the other hand, really is a Cetra. Her mother, Ifalna, was the last Cetra–making Aerith, by relation, half-Cetra. Her connection to the Cetra race is real, unlike Sephiroth’s.

This give her declaration in the final chapter of FF7 Remake all the more important:

There’s a duality between Aerith and Sephiroth in truth versus lies. Aerith’s heritage as a Cetra is founded in truth. She is connected to the Planet in a way that is real. She is a Cetra, in covenant with the Planet to protect it that was passed down to her by her mother. In contrast, Sephiroth’s claims to be a Cetra are lies–whether he’s aware of it or not. Jenova, Sephiroth’s “mother”, is not a Cetra. She is not even from the Planet, but rather from somewhere beyond it. Jenova acted as a parasite of the Planet and is actually responsible for sending it into chaos and draining it of its life. He has no real obligation to protect the Planet, and he is not truly connected to it the way that Aerith is.

Aerith and Sephiroth also represent the original duality between the Cetra and Jenova, with both parties continuing to be at odds with one another even two thousand years later.

Tying in a more overarching FF7 theme, Aerith and Sephiroth also personify the duality of life and death, respectively. With Aerith, her “domain” of sorts, the Sector 5 church, is bursting with life. It is the only place in Midgar where flowers will grow. Even gameplay-wise, she is a healer, and is constantly giving life to other characters in the party. Sephiroth, on the other hand, only destroys. He set fire to Nibelheim and killed the townspeople, including Cloud’s mother and Tifa’s father. Cloud even notes his strength while recounting his version of the events in Nibelheim.

Cloud: “Sephiroth’s strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality than any story you might have heard about him.”

Therefore, Aerith and Sephiroth represent two different dualities: life versus death, and truth versus lies.

Part II: Tifa as Sephiroth’s Foil

Tifa’s role as foil to Sephiroth is more understated but nevertheless important, especially in the latter half of the story. Tifa, Cloud, and Sephiroth are the only survivors of the Nibelheim incident, wherein Sephiroth burned the town of Nibelheim to the ground and killed the townspeople after discovering his “Cetra” heritage. However, Cloud’s memories are clouded due to his trauma and the Mako poisoning he endured during the five-year gap between the Nibelheim incident and the start of FF7; and Sephiroth purposefully twists the truth in order to weaken Cloud’s already-fragile mental state. Therefore, the only one who can decipher what’s true and what’s not is Tifa.

Like Aerith, Tifa also represents the truth, while Sephiroth represents lies and deceit. This is very evident in this scene that takes place in the Northern Crater, and again in a scene during Tifa’s journey into Cloud’s mind. In the Northern Crater, Sephiroth tries to convince Cloud that he was never real, and that all of his childhood memories, even the ones he shared with Tifa, were fabricated.

Sephiroth: “You are just a puppet… You have no heart… and cannot feel any pain… How can there be any meaning in the memory of such a being? What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion. […] Five years ago you were… constructed by Hojo, piece by piece, right after Nibelheim was burnt. A puppet made up of vibrant Jenova cells, her knowledge, and the power of Mako. An incomplete Sephiroth-clone. Not even given a number. …That is your reality.”

Sephiroth, at first, succeeds in convincing Cloud that he is not the “real” Cloud but rather someone who never existed, who never grew up in Nibelheim, and who clung on to fake memories as a means to cope with that fact. However, later in the Lifestream, Tifa expresses a different sentiment:

Tifa: “Sephiroth once said… Cloud made up his memories by listening to my stories… Did you imagine this sky? No, you remembered it. That night the stars were gorgeous. It was just Cloud and I. We talked at the well… That’s why I continued to believe that you were the real Cloud. I still believe you’re the Cloud from Nibelheim…”

By reminding Cloud of a memory they both share–a true memory–she is able to provide a solid ground, wherein Cloud can begin to rebuild his true self after falling for Sephiroth’s deception.

Obviously, Tifa’s relationship with the truth is complicated, and she herself suffers from her own self doubt throughout the story. But in this defining moment, Tifa finally realizes without a doubt what the truth is, and together both Cloud and Tifa are able to reconstruct what really happened in Nibelheim and solve the mystery once and for all.

But this duality isn’t simply about truth versus lies. It’s also about hope versus despair. In deceiving Cloud, Sephiroth strips him of all his hope. Cloud is filled with such fundamental despair that he can’t see the truth and believe that he is indeed an experiment created by Hojo. Tifa, in contrast, provides him with hope when she affirms his memories with her own. Separately, Tifa’s resolve to continue the team’s journey without Cloud is another example of her hope in the face of Sephiroth’s despair.

The idea of hope versus despair in Sephiroth and Tifa is exemplified in Kingdom Hearts (although KH is not canonically related to FF7, I think it’s a neat little call back):

Tifa: “Cloud, you can have my light.”

In Kingdom Hearts II, Sephiroth represents Cloud’s darkness, while Tifa represents Cloud’s light. This is a similar dichotomy to truth versus lies, metaphorically, where Sephiroth is “casting shadows” on the truth, and Tifa is “shedding light” on what really happened. (Okay, sorry for the puns!)

Another duality that Tifa and Sephiroth represent is the dual meaning of reunion in the context of FF7. It’s common knowledge among FFVII fans at this point, but to everyone who’s playing for the first time or who has recently picked up the franchise and not gotten all caught up yet, Sephiroth talks a lot about “the Reunion”.  Like, a lot.  Sephiroth’s “reunion” is a reference to the Reunion Theory, a scientific theory posited by Professor Hojo that states that Jenova’s cells–once separated from their host, i.e. Jenova–will seek out the main body.  This makes everyone who has ever been injected with Jenova’s cells essentially part of a massive Jenova hive mind, with the primary goal to eventually reunite with Jenova.

Obviously, this is a bad thing for Cloud, who was exposed to Jenova cells and is thus connected to Sephiroth.

However, Cloud and Tifa also have a reunion at the beginning of the story–a reunion between friends who haven’t seen each other in a long time. Unlike Sephiroth’s reunion, this is a positive thing. Cloud and Tifa, on multiple occasions, discuss “meeting again” and “finding each other” after so many years apart. Even after they reconstruct Cloud’s memories, he says:

Cloud: “Yeah…… Tifa…… We finally…… meet again……”

Sephiroth’s reunion with Cloud leads him astray from the path; Tifa’s reunion with Cloud sets thing right again. One reunion destroys Cloud’s perception of what’s real, and the other helps him to find the truth once again. Reunion changes meaning with Sephiroth and Tifa, and these opposing definitions of what “reunion” is make Tifa and Sephiroth perfect foils.

Part III: Final Thoughts

Part of what makes Sephiroth such a compelling villain are the striking similarities he shares with the protagonist Cloud Strife. In the original storyboard for FF7, Tifa and Aerith shared a role as the main heroine and the perfect foil for Sephiroth. But even after the role was separated into two distinct characters, the characteristics that made each one of them a foil to Sephiroth remained. For unique reasons, they balance the scales, providing an anchor of “good” to counteract the badness of the story’s main antagonist. 

That’s all I have to say about it! I’ve been thinking a lot about Tifa and Aerith’s unique roles in the story as deuteragonists, or dual heroines, and how they both represent antitheses to Sephiroth. I figured I share my thoughts!

I love how Nibelheim is casually actually buckwild insane in terms of ecology. Harsh mountain landscape where almost no plantlife grows and the air is filled with radiation poisoning and 90% of the random encounters aren't even escaped lab experiments or mutated beasts they're just. Normal wolves except they're 300% stronger than the wolves from the game's starting area and also sometimes you turn the corner and there's. A dragon. Completely normal and unremarkable predator, the fire breathing dragon. Also the locals believe if you climb high enough up the mountain you can get to the land of the dead but why the fuck would you do that so everyone just goes about their lives like a short hike away from the literal afterlife. Truly no other town could have produced the likes of Cloud Strife and Tifa Lockheart.

#no one can resist the puppy

Beautiful in every universe

Shepherd of Memories (Reaper Aerith concept)

I can't grasp the reason why on this website there's this sort of unwritten rule that doesn't allow you to use the Clerith (or Cloti, I guess?) tag unless you're going to celebrate that one ship (does it work this way for every argument or is it just a FF7 LTD related thing?). Otherwise some self-proclaimed tags-controllers will order you to change your writing, in spite of basic common sense and freedom of expression.

As if this sort of cultic anon intimidations could actually scare anybody.

It's tremendously silly, why can't someone tag clerith if the enterity of their article is going to be about clerith and the tone, despite their opinion, is being polite and unagressive? If someone doesn't agree and really can't live with it, there's a useful, easy tool called "block button".

In a way it's hilarious, if the anon was reacting to OP's recent post, they missed the chance to say something productive and give an alternative answer to his last ask, explaining how and why clerith is the end-game pairing.

But, weird, it didn't happen.

All flash, no substance.

Bruh, we don't want to hear about your negative views about cleriths. Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her. He thought of Aerith a lot in OG , On the Way to A Smile, and AC. He went to live in her church. Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith? There are millions of places he could've gone but he chose the church. You don't have to believe our way of thinking if you don't want to, but don't tag clerith in your posts.

Thanks for your question. I think it's important to have these conversations so we can clear up these misunderstandings. Clouds motivations have been well documented so it's unfortunate that large swaths of the fandom seemingly are still in the dark about something that has been known for quite a long time, and I blame lack of communication. Before I answer your question though I'd like to address the style of it, since I find it amusing that in response to my article concerning productive conversation styles you not only used one of the styles I described, but even the same exact argument. This is a nice confirmation for me that I am right on the money. In my article, I said that the "dishonest inquiry" is the Clerith conversation style of choice. The example I gave was as follows:

The dishonest inquiry: “Why don’t you admit that Clouds actions in AC show that he doesn’t love Tifa?”

You mirrored this approach by saying "Why tf would he go live in her church if it wasn't for Aerith?". The defining characteristic of the dishonest inquiry is that the question isn't asked with the goal of seeking clarification, but as an offensive tactic meant to attack the others position, you're not trying to evaluate your position, you're trying to get others to re-evaluate their position under the guise of a question. If we look at the rest of your post we can see the indicators I described for someone who has reached the last stage of the debate style. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her". As I noted in my article:

If assertions are backed up, they are backed up with other assertions designed to dissuade rebuttals, rather than investigating veracity.

This "argument" had no actual arguments, it was a meaningless assertion. Stating that you are correct in an attempt to avoid having to actual show that you're correct. "Cloud loves Aerith and he always has. He lives in her church because he loves her": This is what you're trying to prove, you can't state what you're trying to prove as your starting premise.

If you're honestly interested in learning more about FFVII then leave out the baseless assertions, they literally just waste peoples time and makes them less willing to engage with you.

If I had to rephrase your question in a way that's more inviting for a productive discussion it would be something like this:

"Why do you believe Cloud chose Aeriths Church as his hiding place in AC? He thinks about Aerith a lot, what do you think the reason is for that if it's not love?".

The answer to this is pretty simple of course, it's been restated several times, this is not something that is some grand mystery, it's not even an aspect of FFVII that's particularly ambiguous. The reason he stays in Aeriths church is the same reason he's seen lingering at Zacks "grave", it's guilt. As stated in the 10th anniversary ultimania, and several other times:

when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him

While this is an element of the story that has been explicitly confirmed through ultimanias and quotes, this is not an element of the story that was ever in any way unclear, its a direct continuation of Clouds character arc in FFVII. Infact, Clouds mental health issues are the central part of the fake persona storyarc, and is arguably the core of the story. The rough order of events shown in FFVII, on the way to a smile, and Advent children (and also CC) concerning Clouds mental health is as follows. 1: Cloud as a boy want to protect Tifa. 2: Cloud fails to protect Tifa. 3: Cloud and townspeople blame Cloud for Tifas injuries. 4: Cloud internalizes this and beats himself up over his failure to protect Tifa. He develops a fear of failure. 5: Cloud starts acting up, starts wanting to prove himself, and decides to join Soldier to impress Tifa. 6: Cloud fails to get into Soldier, develops an inferiority complex. 7: Cloud is too ashamed of his failure to face Tifa. 8: Cloud fails to save his mother. 9: Cloud fails to save Nibleheim. 10: Cloud fails to save Tifa, again. 11: Cloud fails to save Zack. 12: Cloud develops a soldier alter ego that is everything that he isn't, as a defense mechanism. He hides from his own weakness. 13: Even as a soldier, Cloud fails to save Aerith. 14: Cloud regains his memories in the lifestream, and discovers he did fulfill his promise to come save Tifa. Here we basically end FFVII, and go into on the way to a smile. At this point Cloud has overcome the alien parasite messing with his mind by establishing a stronger sense of who he is. However, now that he's lost his fake soldier defense mechanism he's forced to deal with the past. His past failures haven't been fixed, he doesn't suddenly think he's a great person now, he simply can no longer use his fake persona to hide from his own weakness, and is forced to confront it. 15: Cloud still blames his own weakness for the deaths of Aerith and Zack, he thinks that he needs to atone for his sins, and thinks that the only way to do this is through living* 16: Cloud starts living with Tifa and experiences happiness and peace for the first time in his adult life.** 17: Cloud develops cherophobia and survivors guilt. He feels ashamed for being alive and happy while Aerith and Zack are dead because of him.*** 18: Clouds mental health deteriorates because of these feelings.**** 19: Cloud finds Denzel and sees him as a way to atone, having found a pathway to redemption, Clouds situation improves.***** 20: Cloud is unable to save Denzel from geostigma, and contracts it himself. 21: Clouds mental health worsens again, he failed again, he is unable to save Denzel, he is even unable to save himself, he won't be able to atone for his sins through living. He potentially brought an infectious disease into the house and as a result of his actions Tifa and Marlene will now lose him. 22: Depressed and ashamed, Cloud runs away. He thinks Tifa and Marlene are better off without him, he doesn't want them to see him waste away and die, he feels like he doesn't deserve to be happy and should instead die alone, Etc. Classic depression. (Some quotes concerning the *** are at the bottom of the article)

As for why he thinks about Aerith and Zack a lot, and hangs around the places that are connected with them, what else do you expect? Of course he's thinking about them, they're the people he failed, they're DEAD because of him. Cloud is a caring man, he beats himself up over it, of course he'd be thinking about them. And where else would a man wallowing in guilt and self-pity go than to those places? But the important thing to remember is that none of this is supposed to be seen as romantic. It's supposed to be viewed as sad and negative. Every internal character arc has something to overcome and this is what Cloud has to overcome in Advent children.****** Tifa to Cloud: "have we lost to our memories?" Cloud to Sephiroth: "Stay where you belong, in my memories" A well written story has internal and external obstacles to overcome, and ties the two together. In the case of advent children, the return of Sephiroth is the physical representation of Clouds internal character arc, which is that he should stop living in the past, and should move on. The past here isn't a positive thing he wants to get back to, Clouds past has always been a thing he's ran away from, but then is forced to accept. The past in Clouds case is a bad thing, his failures, and is something he should stop dwelling on. If you've ever seen the lion king, this resembles the scene where Rafiki hits Simba with a stick. "What does it matter, it's in the past", "yeah but it still hurts", "Oh Yes, the past can hurt, but the way I see it you can either run from it, or learn from it".

When Cloud returned to his normal self, he stopped running from the past, but as a result, he started dwelling in it. That's what he's doing in Aeriths church; dwelling in misery.

If we juxtapose Aeriths church with the 7th heaven, we can start to see where peoples misunderstandings are taking place. When some people look at the events of ACC they think that 7th heaven is a place of sadness, which Cloud leaves to be happy at Aeriths church, the place of happiness. The "have we lost to our memories" is then seen as a confirmation of this and that the memory, which they think corresponds to Aerith, is better than life with Tifa. This character arc then concludes with Cloud being happy by finally leaving Tifa behind, and riding off in the sun-set in search of Aerith at the end of the movie. But this interpretation falls apart as soon as you apply context to it, both narratively, and factually, it doesn't fit with with developer quotes, as well as the fundamental story themes of FFVII. 1: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, then why has Cloud been consistently quoted to experience happiness there? 2: If 7th Heaven/Tifa is a place of sadness, and Cloud leaves at the end of the movie, then why has it been stated to be his promised land, aka, his land of supreme happiness (the reason it's literally called 7th heaven), and why is he stated to return there? ******* 3: If Clouds "memories" are positive, why is the plotarc resolved by Cloud telling the villain to "stay there"? 4: If Cloud is happy at the church, why is he living in self-deprecating squalor? 5: If Cloud loved Aerith and thought Denzel was sent to him by her, why did he abandon him? 6: Do you really think SE would write a story about a "hero" whose main emotional hurdle concerning the past comes down to. "I am sick of the girl I am with, I prefer the one that is dead, so I will get over the past by letting go of the girl I am with, as well as my adoptive children, to go chase the dead girl"? 7: Don't you think this would do Tifas character a tremendous disservice and do you think SE would be that preferential in their treatment? I could go on, but I think the point is clear. While the "Aeriths church is a happy place" interpretation is semi-coherent when looked at in isolation, it becomes exceedingly bizarre as soon as you place it in context. As I am fond of saying, this is not a matter of personal interpretation, it's a matter of lying to yourself vs not lying to yourself. I also suspect that this is the reason why SE changed the ending to advent Children, because people were misinterpreting it in this bizarre way, so they made it more in your face. In context, the following interpretation is much more fitting. Aeriths church is a place of sadness that Cloud runs to because of his guilt and depression. The "memories" line refers to Cloud dwelling on his past mistakes, as evidenced by his constant quotes about needing forgiveness. The character arc of moving on from the past is then resolved when he forgives himself, and as a result, defeats sephiroth, the metaphorical demon of his past. This allows him to return to his place of joy, his promised land, the 7th heaven, with a more positive outlook on the past. Instead of tarnishing Aerith and Zacks memories by wallowing in the past he instead moves on from it, thereby allowing it to become beautiful, which is represented by him planting Aeriths flowers on Zacks grave, and placing Zacks sword in the church. Instead of Zacks grave being the place where Zack died, it is now the place where a hero was born. Cloud has moved on, he has let his mistakes go, and has learned to come to terms with himself. I think it's hard to argue that this version of events is much less shallow, and much more meaningful than the story of a lovesick guy who abandons his partner and adoptive kids to go chase after a dead girl, but that's just me, what's more important is that it's the only version of events that's corroborated by the evidence. Thanks for the question. __________________________________________________

Corroborating quotes (not comprehensive)

* from case of Tifa: "“I’m going to live. I think that’s the only way I can be forgiven. All sorts of things…"

** Nojima in AC prologue: "“Cloud never had a candid personality to begin with, and although he started living with Tifa and even started working, he obtained a peaceful livinghe’s never experienced before, and this conversely made him anxious. And in the midst of this he contracts Geostigma himself, and rather than being able to protect the people dear to him, he instead was forced to face his own death, and so ran away.” (among other quotes)

*** 10th anniversary ultimania: "when Cloud contracts Geostigma he disappears. Behind these actions lies feelings of guilt towards his past failure to protect people who were important to him"

Aeriths 10th anniversary profile : Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off. -Aerith’s 10th anniversay profile.

And more, really this is reiterated constantly.

**** From case of Tifa: "During that time, it was Marlene who noticed a change in Cloud. She told Tifa how Cloud would sometimes space out and not listen to her.

Transporting mail around the world meant he was traveling around his past too. She knew that Cloud was in great pain because he couldn’t protect Aerith. Cloud was trying to overcome that and live on. But, going back to the place where he parted from Aerith might mean that his sorrow and regret was going to tear his heart again.

It was night, and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking alcohol even though he rarely did. He drained his glass. Tifa thought about it before going over and filling his glass.

***** From case of Tifa: "Tifa wondered if they became a real family after Denzel appeared. Cloud was clearly taking less jobs. At night, he would always make sure he had time to spend with the children. The silly little conversations he had with Tifa were also back."

****** Reunion files, page 58: "As long as Cloud blames himself for Aerith’s death, he won’t be able to move on with his life. One of the first ideas we had for Advent Children was to have Cloud overcome and resolve that immense feeling of guilt. For Cloud, no one other than Aerith can solve that problem for him."

- Takahiro Sakurai pg. 15 reunion files: After Cloud was told, “Which is it? A memory or us?: by Tifa, he tells Sephiroth, “Stay where you belong. In my memories,” just before he defeats him. I think Cloud finally becomes free at this moment. Deep down, Cloud knew that he shouldn’t be so hard on himself, but at the same time he couldn’t let go of those feelings of guilt for what happened to Aerith and Zack, or the thought that he could never forgive himself for it. But then his companions made him feel better by telling him to let go. ******* "The place where he awakens—- That is Cloud’s Promised Land As he sleeps, Cloud hears two voices. The voices of two people very dear to him, who are no longer with him. Playfully and kindly, they give him a message: he doesn’t belong here yet. When he awakes, there was his friends. There were the children, freed from their fatal illness. Tifa and Marlene, and Denzel asking for Cloud to heal his Geostigma— his family were waiting. Engulfed in celebration, he realizes where he is meant to live."

"Aerith lends her power to the people suffering from Geostigma in Edge, and personally provides for Cloud’s recovery. Geostigma is cured. Cloud returns to Tifa and the children."

-  FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Complete Timeline

As I say constantly, there's a time and place for everything, different types of conversations that have different kinds of approaches. Half the battle seems to consistently be about finding the best approach for discussions or taking in material. I tour a lot of the FF and KH fandom, amongst others every now and then, and it's...bad. It's bad every where, I suppose.

Approach to analysis is important. Analyzing to prove vs. to understand is different.

Proving, through that of a preconceived conclusion, an agenda—this has way too many potential issues. This is where you run into confirmation bias, cherry-picking, contextual problems, logical fallacies, contradictions, or really just, inefficient takes that manipulate the information to fit into whatever someone is trying to prove. Instead of investigating the little, square-shaped hole and what naturally fits or doesn't fit, hell, even what could fit through even if it's the wrong shape but the right size—you might end up just trying to force this big triangle through, changing the hole itself or destroying the whole thing altogether.

This doesn't always turn out this way, like when making fun theories, but boy have I seen that more often. Even theories can end up being negative. I mean, I'VE done that before years ago, and had to realize my own immaturity when I started getting indignant. Once you get passed that, you realize how tiring it is to even be this way.

However, if your goal is To Understand, you're in a much better position to take in the material as it is. You let what's there, what's a part of it, to shape the conception of your conclusions and that of your perception. You rely on the information and corresponding outliers to be the context. It may even change or challenge your preconceptions and personal perspective, and you have to be willing to allow the material to do that. It's natural when taking something in the first time to have some type of idea or understanding—subtext in and of itself relies on an audience's ability to already understand something. However, once you settle down and say "let me look at this", you have to free yourself, well FROM yourself, a bit, as much as you can. Because even certain content as it is enforces a bit of our own thoughts to understand it (like subtext). But, you have to try for the sake of being objective, because it's not about you at that point, it's about the thing you're examining. This is much more fun, for me.

This is definitely a general thing, but in regards to fandom, it gets real twisted, and you have people who aren't letting the content itself be the leading point to what they understand, and the logic used is reflective of that. It's actually easy for this to happen, on different levels, so it's not always this super negative or mal-intent thing.

But damn when it is, and people eat up that bullshit, it can be real bad, cause confusion, and at times make if very difficult to even talk about the content itself because then it isn't about it, it's about something else. Real life, yeah, but I feel like fandoms are petri-dishes for this type of thing because of the inclination of personal investment and feelings.