I Love It When Ghost And Pals Music Goes SKNGISHjsbntjJItnketnksjzjKKJtjwotjsinejss And Then The Lyrics

Watched '89 Batman just so I could read the original script and get mad at the changes. Spoilers, but also this won't make a lot of sense if you haven't already seen the movie

Starting off strong with the descriptions. I'm sure cranking up Jack's age some 20 years wouldn't make much of a difference to the plot...

I was going to say that the casting director is no Andrea Romano, but considering his name drops before Keaton's, I'm sure Nicholson was chosen through a more particular process. I wonder though, was that choice alone responsible for the "Joker kills Bruce's parents" idea? (side note, did Joker 2019 come up with *anything* new at all??) Or was it something that came up after they decided to erase Dick Grayson from the film to replace the original conflict?

Oh yeah, the Flying Grayson's episode happens in the original script. But let's look at Ace Chemicals first — which is not the name they used in the movie, just to piss me off

They cut out a whole section of the gang breaking into the plant. It's not a bad choice, I just liked the date makeup observation. Now to the meet cute--

Paralyzing talons? Are you kidding me, they got rid of that?? Oh, silly me, of course they did — that would get in the way of Batman's classic blowing-up-thugs rule.

Bruce didn't throw Jack off the platform here, but interestingly enough we still see him feeling guilty when he finds out that he inadvertently created Joker

And yes, this is almost the exact same moment that Tom King wrote in Batman/Catwoman. Gotta love the trope of Bruce bringing up his guilt over creating his arch-nemesis in the middle of an intimate moment with a beautiful woman on his bed. Now some random things they changed that stood out to me:

Every single time Joker acts blatantly childishly or is described as being on the verge of a tantrum is so funny. Sad that we could've had this instead of him thirsting over Vicky Vale.

This is the during the attack of the mimes on the city hall. I assume they decided to cut it out because that sort of ptsd goes a little against installing machine guns on the batmobile and striking down your enemies with military grade missiles.

They didn't pull a Joe Chill/Joker switcheroo here, Vale's guilt just dreamed of this scenario. The script goes a little deeper in expanding her relationship with Bruce. She figured out he's Batman on her own — saving up Alfred's skin — but unfortunately so does her colleague. As a self-designated nice guy, Knox tries to get Batman to break things off with Vicky. He's also waiting for the news of Joker's attacks to quiet down before exposing Batman's identity, but don't worry, the scripts solves this beautifully later on.

Anyways, instead of the confrontation at the apartment of Vicky Vale (also known as Bruce's "let's get nuts" moment and the devil in the moonlight quote) we have a chase scene that leads to Dick's introduction. Before that though comes probably the second scene I most wish they had kept in the movie

Yes, Batman chases Joker on a horse, first wearing a tuxedo, then his whole gear. Do you see what they took from us? What could've been?

Joker kills the Graysons with pretty explosions, Dick jumps onto Joker's van and tries to kill him but alas is detained by Batman and batnapped.

Batman then asks Alfred to take care of Dick and the last act is set in motion. Pushed by anger and guilt, Batman blows up Ace Chemicals (tho here we're supposed to believe the thugs managed to run out before the place crumbled) but Joker escapes and goes to set the balloon parade in motion.

Before he can blow away the public, Knox and Vicky create the bat signal to alert Batman about the balloons and Joker's plans are thwarted. Unfortunately (cough) this costs Knox his life. But hey, at least Batman's identity is safe.

Big explosions ensue, the batwing goes down and Bruce is almost left dead in the debris. Dick Grayson, now dawning his makeshift Robin suit, saves him and runs to enact his revenge on Joker.

They enter the cathedral, Joker and Dick exchange some bullets and Batman eventually catches up with Dick, knocking him out again. Then Batman manages to crawl up the stairs through inhuman effort against his fatal injuries, passes out just before reaching the final floor and uh... I'll just post this next part in full

He's made a friend... Attempted murder-suicide... Joker's taken out by a horde of Bats... This would probably have replaced Fight Club in my list of favorite movie endings if it ever came into existence.

Before I close up on our villain and hero's demises, I do have something to point out that I think was improved in the final script. Joker's Smylex — basically Joker Gas, originally meant to be called Smylenol — got added to beauty products and caused some people to die in the movie. I say some, because while we see 13 deaths reported there, here it's something that comes closer to the class of hundreds. He doesn't even invent it, originally; he just steals the formula from an old CIA project. Because the fatal product doesn't happen only when certain products are mixed together, a whole lot more end up becoming victims and Batman can't do much about it except cut out the source. It's just a detail, but I liked that they thought of an alternative. I may not like the Joker mob boss origin, but at least they let him keep his chemical prowess.

Now to the ending. Batman had a last minute bout of clarity and threw the bomb away, tangling it in the helicopter's ladder

Something something Batman offering Joker a last comfort before death... Endgame and Arkham City and...

Okay, that's pretty much what I've got. Am I mad we didn't get to have this? Kinda. But also, I didn't have big expectations for what actually came out, and it's still a pretty funny film. Besides, I think when it comes to Batman and mainly Joker, sticking to the comics, games and animations is the best way to go. Best to keep the incels focused on the live adaptations anyhow

oo do you have examples of issues that very clearly show jokers avoidant attachment style? I would guess on some level the ending of death of the family?

Well, I said that both him and Bruce rather fit the disorganized attachment style, which is also known as fearful-avoidant-- but Bruce has more "fearful", Joker has more "avoidant".

Bruce, despite all his misgivings, has multiple long-term meaningful relationships. But in Joker's case... intimacy and affection are simply out of the question. Humanity is out of the question, like in the example you've given with Death of the Family. The only person we know for sure he cares about is Bruce, and even in Bruce's case he wildly fluctuates between declaring undying love and genuinely trying to murder him out of spite and resentment. The second closest person to him would be Harley Quinn, and I do think on some level he cared about her, but his relationship with her was manipulative and abusive-- and he tried to kill her too. All of his relationships, outside of the one with Batman, are shallow, and it's because he keeps them shallow. People are something to kill, use, or make fun of, not persons to connect with. If there's any sign of emotion, Joker considers it a weakness. Caring gets you broken above a vat of acid at ACE Chemical factory, with a bat from hell scaring you into committing suicide.

Though I don't think Joker started out so avoidant, much like Bruce... who also started out as something else. Personally I see Bruce as having had an anxious/fearful attachment style prior to his parents' death. But then the loss pushed him into avoidance, and ultimately resulted in him displaying a disorganized or fearful-avoidant attachment style as an adult. Joker might've been fearful-avoidant to begin with, if we go by the likeliest background for him: growing up with abusive parents, then living in orphanages and foster homes, etc. Even the one interaction (remembered reliably or unreliably) with Jeannie in The Killing Joke points to a fearful-avoidant attachment:

Batman: The Killing Joke

He's blowing up at Jeannie, projecting his own self-hatred on her, and then immediately swings into begging for forgiveness. In the end, the core thing about disorganized attachment is... instability. Growing up, the child does not feel like their caregiver is reliable, there to provide food or shelter or the most basic emotional validation. Parents who fluctuate between moments of love and affection and moments of violence and abuse teach their children that love is a minefield. One wrong step, and the landmine blows-- and you never know what sets it off, so you wildly overcompensate or avoid. And Jack acts more like this towards Jeannie: he explodes with anger, gets scared she'll react badly, and then begs for forgiveness. It's also clear that he thinks his value is based in what he can provide. If he doesn't have anything to give Jeannie, will she still love him?

But where Jack was more classically fearful-avoidant, Joker is a lot more avoidant. Even though his life-defining trauma happened as an adult, it profoundly affected his view on the world. As Joker, he still has a need for connection (otherwise we wouldn't have Batjokes)-- but he also hates it and is actively trying to snuff it out. It's a bit ironic that essentially, only with Bruce is where the fearful/anxious part of his attachment style still comes out. Just like with Jeannie in that example, we constantly see him go between "It's your fault I became a monster! I hate your guts and I want you dead!" and "I do all this because I love you! I'm the only one who understands you! Please don't leave me!"

Sometimes the memory of the official DC account and this batjokes propaganda comes to my mind

I will defend all my life that Selina has the legitimate right to strangle this bitch

I'm neurotypical i just do all this stuff cause i want to

[ID: A painting of a photo from the Kiss of the Spider Woman (musical), of Brent Carver as Molina. He sits on his bed with one hand to his cheek and his knees up. The background is black with a blue halo around his head, and a spiderweb spiralling out from there. On the right is an extension of the background, with a prison bar pattern. End ID.]

Speaking of which!

This really is just weird ass foreplay for them huh ? Fucking freaks. You see how Joker cut his suit to expose his chest ? They are definitely not slick. Somebody call Alfred.

You mean the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith?