The amount of hate geared toward the character of Kylo Ren has always seemed odd to me, especially considering how the same people have no problem with redemption arcs for characters like Snape, Loki, Magneto, Darth Vader (who is even in the same franchise, so the excuse can’t be that a redemption arc is somehow uncharacteristic to the SW universe) or less obviously evil/villainous characters like William Darcy, Heathcliff and countless others.
But what is different about the character? (And don’t even start with “murderer/fascist”, it is not about that and you know it. Fictional deaths can not be translated literally and if they could - why are they forgivable for the characters I mentioned above but not Kylo Ren?)
Kylo’s outer appearance may play a role: while I personally consider him to be waaayyy more attractive than any copy/paste Ken Hollywood actor (hello Chris Pine, Chris Hemsworth, Chris Pratt, Chris Evans - WTH are they all named Chris?! They even copy/pasted their names :D), Adam Driver is not traditionally good looking. We as a society do treat prettier people way more lenient than someone “ugly” or normal looking, because we subconsciously attribute features like intelligence, health, kindness or generally overall goodness to them. So maybe we just think “ugly face = no way he could be a good guy”.
But I think the main factor is something different:
It is Kylo Ren’s vulnerability and his non conformity to traditional portrayals of masculinity. He is very much NOT the typical stoic tormented hero we are used to be seeing. Instead, he is a sensible almost whiny teenage boy (Adam Driver explicitly states he plays him “younger than his own age”) who never properly learnt to control his emotions and lashes out whenever he feels wronged or overwhelmed.
That is not typical male behaviour, especially in a movie. We are conditioned to think of it as something ridiculous. Real men don’t cry. Real men bottle up their feelings, even if it breaks them. Grim self destruction like drowning the pain in alcohol or getting beat up / beat up other people are far more accepted coping mechanisms in a man than complaining or saying things like “I am being torn apart” with trembling lips while tearing up.
That is not a stoic male:
I claim that a lot of people (male AND female) are triggered by a male who dares to be emotional AND demands empathy. We are conditioned to feel that a man should only receive that sort of treatment when he denies his feelings, when he is “strong” and “hard” and closed off. We admire that, even in a villain. Darth Vader / Anakin gets a free pass because while he is conflicted and shows emotions they are “masculine” emotions like anger, rage and hate. He does tear up but they are angry tears. Someone like Kylo Ren, who is open and vulnerable, more so than they can handle, we perceive as pathetic and weak.
This is why so many people not only hate the thought of Kylo Ren redeemed, but think he isn’t worthy of redemption.
Look at his Sad Puppy Eyes™: Even when he’s violently smashing his mask he seems on the verge of tears.
Compare this to angry Anakin:
(The same sexism in reverse is the reason why so many label Rey a Mary Sue, even though her abilities are very much in character and explained / established well in the movies. Women are supposed to be weak and emotional and men are supposed to be strong and rational. Play with these norms and people are going to freak)
insp
🦋 "Playground" Part 1 🦋
I'm very impatient, so I've coloured and finished part of my jayvik comic - this is the result!
It's not finished yet though, it will take some time 😅
▶️ The story takes place after season 2
(1/x)
"My Lady. My Alys"
Targaryen/Alys Rivers, Strong bastard witch girl
Tale as old as time
The Adventures of Batman - It Takes Two To Make A Team
Katniss is like Lucy Gray this, Katniss is like Sejanus that, and yes fine that's all good and true and lovely but Katniss Everdeen is also a direct parallel to Coriolanus Snow and people NEED to start talking about this because it's driving me crazy.
Think about it: they both grew up poor and deeply vulnerable, losing parents at a very young age, with a matriarchal adult (Katniss' mother and Coriolanus' Grandma'am) who fails to provide for them emotionally and physically. They intimately understand the threat of starvation, even developing with stunted growth because of it, and their narrations in the books share a fixation on food. Throughout their childhoods, both experienced constant fear and suffered a fundamental lack of control over their circumstances. Because of this, they're inherently suspicious of the people around them. They resent feeling indebted to others, especially those who have saved their lives. They're motivated almost entirely by family and deeply connected to their communities. Both are used and manipulated by the Capitol, both are forced to perform to survive and despise every inch of it, both are thrown into the Arena and made to kill. Both have a self-sacrificial, genuinely sweet sister figure acting as their conscience. Peeta and Lucy Gray - performers and love interests with a fundamental kindness and sense of hope about them - fulfill markedly similar roles in their narrative. Both contribute to the development of the future Hunger Games, Snow throughout tbosas and Katniss towards the end of Mockingjay.
It's easy to ignore these similarities because, as mirrors of each other, they are exact opposites. Katniss is from District 12, viewed and treated as less than human; Snow is the cream of the Capitol crop, given the privilege of a name with social weight, an ancestral home, and the opportunity of the Academy despite having no more money than a miner from 12. Katniss has no agency over her life, and responds by being kind whenever she's able, while Snow justifies horrendous evils in order to continue his quest for complete control. Katniss does everything she can to protect her family; Snow does everything he can to protect his family's image as an extension of his own ego. Katniss loves her District and connects with its inhabitants on a meaningful level, but Snow is indifferent at best to his peers - the apparent "superior people" - and only engages with his community for personal gain. Katniss emerges from the Arena horrified at herself and the system, but Snow takes his trauma and turns it into an excuse to perpetuate the violence with himself at the top. Katniss cares for Prim until her death and then snaps at the loss of her little sister, while Snow survives on Tigris' blood, sweat, and tears and then torments and abandons her, presumably because she calls him out on his insanity. Snow actively adds to and popularizes the Hunger Games because of his vendetta against the Districts following his childhood wartime trauma - Katniss briefly agrees to a new Hunger Games (which is arguably a facade to trick Coin), but later definitively stops them from happening by killing Coin and choosing a life of peace and privacy. Snow is obsessed with revenge, but Katniss empathizes with the Capitolites and does what she can to keep them from suffering. He exists in a cruel system and selfishly upholds it; she exists in a cruel system and works to dismantle it for the good of her family and community, at great personal cost. And Peeta and Lucy Gray are incredibly similar, but Katniss and Peeta forge a relationship of genuine love and understanding that shines in comparison to Coriolanus' obsessive projection onto Lucy Gray.
So, yeah, Katniss is Lucy Gray haunting Coriolanus. But I bet you anything that eighty-something year old President Snow looks at her, the girl on fire, and thinks that he sees the ghost of his own past: bright and young and brilliant, emerging from a childhood of starvation with a relentless hunger for success, a talented and charming performer helping her win the Games. And that's why he's so afraid of her! Because if he sees himself in her, then he's up against his own cunning, his own talent for manipulation, his own charisma, his own genius. He reads her wrong, obviously, but it means that in his mind he's up against the version of himself that he could have been, with the nightmare army of his childhood at her back and her star-crossed lover at her side, spewing Sejanus' truths in his own voice. This isn't to say that Katniss ever achieved the level of power and agency that Coriolanus did during her time with the rebellion, but it is to say that Snow was taken down by what truly terrified him - his own morality, come to finish the job.
Did you notice that we had a short cut of Dark Rey in TROS teaser, and we had a scene with Cal when he's a sith?
Did you notice that both Ben and Trilla were somehow betrayed by their Masters? By Luke and Cere.
Did you notice that both Rey and Cal discover the truth about Kylo Ren and Second Sister through the touch? Rey touches Ben's hand while Cal touches Trilla's lightsaber. And how then Rey and Cal are showing compassion to their enemies:
"It isn't too late"
and
"It's not too late to let it go".
And do you remember how both Luke and Cere got the chance to confront their former Padawans and say sorry. And how they expressed basically the same idea as Rey and Cal did.
Leia: I know my son is gone.
Luke: No one's ever really gone.
Trilla: It's too late, Cere.
Cere: No. It's not.
I can't believe this. I'm telling you that is some kind of a strange deja vù. And it's freaking amazing. Somehow, I believe that Trilla may be still alive, just heavily wounded by Vader, so eventually she'll come back in a next game. Hope is always with us anyway :)
batman: white knight // gotham