I Was Going Through The Thiam Tag To Find A Fic And I Found One Just Called “I Hate Scott McCall”

Honestly I kinda agree and disagree cause I do wish they were Canon but your so right the ending of teen wolf (not including the movie cause I don’t count that as canon) is such a perfect set up for thiam fanfic the show ends on a cliffhanger so if people want a villain or a treat people can use Monroe but also the way their relationship was left is perfect for different interpretations when writing them some people can write as still hating eachother and have a slow burn or write them at the point that their friends and their both single so you won’t have to find an explanation to break them up with any canon couple

Unpopular opinion but I’m glad Thiam isn’t canon, and not because I think they shouldn’t be because I obviously ship it and I’m obsessed. But the best ao3 fanfiction there is in the world will come from ships that aren’t canon. I think it gives the fan base a wider range of what could’ve been. It leaves the end of canon to be open to interpretation and because of that so many amazing stories have been created. I don’t know about y’all but personally, I enjoy the building of the relationship the most (which Theo and Liam need because they both have to accept their feelings and challenge their opinions on one another). I truly believe these two deserve a build up of their relationship that couldn’t have been fully explored in canon (at least in season 6) and I’m happy that this community has been able to come up with better story lines than Jeff Davis is even capable of. Anyways, that’s my rant.

I have to respond to this cause I’ve been thinking about this so much

I’ve always excused a lot of theo’s actions and defended him and I’ve always wondered is that actually because of a moral belief I have or am I just biased and really like his character but as I’ve thought about it more I realized I’ve only done this with certain villains and I’ve managed to put villains into 3 categories.

1) are those who I believe are pure evil no matter what happened to them they’ve gone past a point where I can’t see any redeeming qualities and then 2) are villains who have done horribly evil things that I can’t defend but who I still believe are capable and have the chance at redemption and then theirs 3) villains like Theo who I just can’t view as him as evil I can awknoldge that what he did was wrong but I get it he was an abused kid who was stuck in a horrible situation being manipulated while his life was constantly in danger and I can’t judge him cause of that anybody in his situation would do exactly what he did and those that say they wouldn’t probably are lying to themselves we could say oh I wouldn’t be manipulated or even if I was forced to hurt someone else I would rather die but most of us would do it he was 9 and spent his whole life with them the fact that he was able to change and become better proves he wasn’t all that bad plus they forgave argent for trying to kill them and killing how many other supernaturals simply because of his childhood why should Theo be any different

#4 emails part 3

I just wanted to share some emails sent back and forth about my fic Sense of a Foreshortened Future because I need inspiration to start writing it again. In these emails it's referred to as #4 because it was the fourth Thiam fic I ever started writing. I will do my best to remove what I think is spoilers.

Hi hello,

Okay so I have this one question which is: do you think Liam forgave Theo for what he did?

I'd like your initial opinion before you read my brain thoughts on why I'm conflicted about this question.

Brain thoughts (there's a lot unfortunately and they are going to be kinda all over the place):

I have this very basic concept of why I like enemies to lovers, it's not that they love each other because or despite their past actions or who they used to be, they just love each other.

Liam- at least the way I'm writing him- thinks of Theo before Kira's prison and Theo after as basically two different people. Can you forgive someone if your brain isn't connecting that they were the same person who did the hurtful/bad action?

At what point in an abused child's life do they become responsible for the actions they might have been manipulated into doing? At what point do you draw the line in the sand? Is it when they turn a certain age, or are removed from the abuse, or when they have people telling them what they're doing is wrong? Is it fair to judge someone based on a decision(s) they made while being threatened with death? 

Where does manipulation end and personal choice begin? 

Could you ever forgive someone for hurting you and the people you care about like that? I want to say that I'd be able to, but if I came face to face with that I don't know if I would be able to do it. I'd want to be able to forgive. Do you need to forgive someone to love them in a healthy way if you've both grown?

Is forgiveness something that happens all at once or do you need to wake up every day and forgive again?

What even is forgiveness? It could be reconciliation with the person who hurt you. Maybe it's when the negative emotions you used to feel about someone are replaced by positive or neutral ones. It could be when you stop feeling resentment or the need for revenge. Is it forgetting or ignoring or fully acknowledging? 

Maybe it's all of those things.

Do you think Liam forgave Theo for what he did? Does he have to?

From inside a library contemplating the meaning of life, seven

God okay so this is a lot. bravo. You've clearly thought about this a lot so I say to go with whatever you think because I have no idea how to answer this I'm going to be honest.

But no he doesn't have to forgive him, I'm just not sure if he has.

I think maybe Liam has forgiven him in the way that he doesn't feel contempt or want revenge. I think I need Liam in the story to realize that the person he keeps referring to as Evil Theo is the same Theo that he is almost friends with is the same person. I think a lot of the anger he has for Evil Theo is aimed more at the idea that the pack was hurt. I think (later on) Liam will remember what it felt like when he was being manipulated into trying to kill Scott, and how that situation didn't define him as a person because he did the work to be better after that and Liam will kinda apply that to Theo.

Okay I’m kinda curious on what people think each of the puppy pack would do for jobs in the future

So these characters

Liam Dunbar(Honestly I kinda view as a history teacher)

Mason Hewitt(I refuse to believe he became a cop)

Corey Bryant(I can kinda see him in something maybe medical or a photographer)

So for the rest I have no idea

Theo raeken

Nolan Holloway

Alec

Hayden Romero

Brett

Lori

I think the reason he could do it is cause he's part coyote and Jeff Davis has stated that for werecoyotes it's a lot easier to gain a full shift cause unlike werewolves who have to evolve to gain the full shift werecoyotes already have the ability it's not a special thing for coyotes like how it is for werewolves

Something that frustrates me is that Theo can full transform into a wolf and it’s never talked about. Like how is it a big enlightenment thing for the Hales and then the evil 17 year old test tube were-creature can just do it casually and he doesn’t even USE IT FOR ANYTHING

lol fucking theo.

okay.

here we go.

i can understand how this would be frustrating and yeah it kind of is but the thing about theo is that narratively he's a derek mirror.

especially for scott and stiles.

read more because i had thoughts on this subject.

for the two of them, derek has always been there. it started with the three of them and for the type of shit they dealt with on a regular basis derek being there was comforting. even when they were actively being deeply annoyed by him because derek was safe to them in so many ways that i think that like a lot of teenagers they took for granted that he'd always be around because it's derek.

than he wasn't.

and argent left too.

it's the moment where the paradigm shifts and says "you're on your own kids".

it really pulled a rug out from under the two of them.

derek's departure at the end of season 4 in smoke and mirrors was so significant but also understated. i think people really do dismiss the amount of growth that occurred in the derek and scott relationship. fandom gets so hung up on their antagonism in seasons 1 and 2 they don't look much deeper for why they were like that and sort of ignore that season 3 spends a lot of time showing them moving away from that.

stiles and derek are more difficult to parse for some. their relationship whether you ship it or not is mostly in subtext. stiles is fucking attached by season 4.

stiles fears change. it's a huge part of his season 5 and 6a arcs. it terrifies him to lose people he cares about or have his relationship with them change.

i think it's important to remember that in smoke and mirrors, derek is all but dying in front of stiles. he's bleeding out. it doesn't look good. no one knows the dumbass is gonna evolve or whatever werewolf magic he pulled out his ass. he is dying and his last words to stiles are to go save scott.

this is after a season of where derek's been messed with magically by kate, where he's been losing his werewolf powers and lydia predicted his death.

when derek's lying there bleeding out stiles hesitates. twice.

he gets more focus than peter or braeden does in this moment. the focus is derek and stiles. we get like six close up shots of stiles being deeply affected by this and by affected i mean fucked up.

sure, derek doesn't end up actually dying but he leaves with braeden. we have no idea if they've really spoken all that much in the in-between.

stiles's face as they watch derek and argent leave does not give the vibe that he has had closure.

derek being unable to give stiles a proper goodbye is a whole other post.

it's really significant that derek leaving unmoors stiles emotionally even months later and that scott recognizes it. we are shown stiles getting sentimental and gooey over the initials d.h for a reason in creatures of the night. he misses derek.

why all this background when this post is about theo? it's because derek's absence in season 5 is glaring and tangible. it's an unsaid thing that theo is able to take advantage of.

it's a compare and contrast but sort of in opposite directions for stiles and scott.

both derek and theo grew up in beacon hills but left for a period of time before returning.

derek is immediately recognized by stiles and theo is recognized by scott.

both are accused of killing their sister. derek didn't kill laura but theo did kill tara.

derek is a born werewolf who earns his full shift which is an inherited rare gift whereas theo is a chimera artificially created by the dread doctors.

derek rejects the influence of peter and duecalion whereas theo is a tool of the dread doctors.

derek's desperation in building a pack and losing them versus theo's desperation to build a pack and killing them himself using deucalion's teachings about taking power.

derek wanting to kill lydia because he thought she was the kanima versus theo wanting lydia because he wanted her knowledge and she was the key to the hellhound

scott wanting to trust theo is an obvious course correction of how he mistrusted derek in the beginning and how he misses the connection he had with derek.

scott's just desperate for something to work out.

stiles's mistrust of theo is in contrast of how he trusted derek despite scott's insistence that derek wasn't trust worthy.

it also highlights that stiles's is on edge. he cannot afford to trust someone. not again. he cannot let another person close.

which brings us to parasomnia and the benefit of a doubt conversation.

there's a lot happening with stiles and scott during season 5. there's nogitsune fall out, them growing up and the pain that comes with it but also how stiles's behavior is increasingly paranoid and irritable. it's why theo is able to take such advantage.

but i think on some level scott misunderstands that stiles never really distrusted derek the same way he did.

stiles: "yes. okay? we followed him out here. what do you want me to say? that i'm a stalker? huh? that i'm crazy? totally paranoid? none of this is new information!" scott: "now you're gonna try to at least give him the benefit of the doubt?" stiles: "i give people benefit of the doubt! i've given a lot of benefit to a lot of people." scott: "like derek? ...kira? ...liam?"

i can not post scott's face when he's about to bring up derek to stiles.

scott may not know all the details, he may not understand them but what he does understand is derek leaving has stiles fucked up and bringing him up is going to poke at sore spot. bringing up derek was his entire point. adding kira and liam weren't the important part of this segment of conversation. i don't even think stiles ever mistrusted kira prior to when she begins to lose control of her fox.

scott is trying to appeal to stiles's derek feels and stiles just ends up super mad about it.

so to me in the end, a lot of scott and stiles's whole theo issue was really about derek.

(here's how i can make everything about derek hale lol).

theo being able to shift really was only to compare him to derek lol and who knows if he can even still accomplish this after he was returned from hell. he kind of went back to factory settings. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

tl;dr season 5 theo is derek-lite.

It’s set in the same universe as Netflix’s sandman and theirs a cameo appearance of like 2 characters but it’s only for like a scene and it’s not important to the overall story

do I have to watch something else to understand that dead boy detective show? it looks interesting but when I skimmed an article a few weeks ago I saw the phrase 'reprising their character' lol

reblog this rat until staff gets involved

I just read the first chapter and God that was good I'm excited for the rest also I'm sensing scileo friendship vibes in this which is making me even more excited

Chapters: 1/? Fandom: Teen Wolf (TV) Rating: Explicit Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence Relationships: Liam Dunbar/Theo Raeken, Theo Raeken & Stiles Stilinski, Scott McCall & Theo Raeken, Chris Argent & Theo Raeken, Peter Hale & Theo Raeken Characters: Theo Raeken, Liam Dunbar, Stiles Stilinski, Scott McCall (Teen Wolf), Peter Hale, Derek Hale, Chris Argent, Alan Deaton, Melissa McCall Additional Tags: Suicidal Thoughts, Suicide Attempt, Canon-Typical Violence, Angst, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Hurt/Comfort, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Hurt Theo Raeken, Theo Raeken Needs a Hug, Theo Raeken-centric, Protective Liam Dunbar, Pining Liam Dunbar, I believe in Theo and Stiles bestieism Summary:

Theo is just trying to survive his second chance at life. Too bad outside forces want the opposite.

@theoraekenapperciation

Day 1-pre canon- it could be a scene from his childhood,one from right before he came to become hills you decide.

_

How Theo,Scott, and Stiles become bestfriends

Honestly I do think she’s dead but I don’t think she’s gonna stay dead there’s leaks about her coming back and I feel like whatever Billy is doing on the road might be to try and get his family back

guys do we truly believe wanda is dead

i just need joe locke and elizabeth olsen in the same vicinity okay. not a want it’s a need.

Okay that’s your interpretation I guess and I do see how you can see that in some scenes. Buts that completely ignoring a few episodes ago where mason says you can’t take pain unless you care meaning Theo wouldn’t have been physically able to take Gabe’s pain unless he felt some type of empathy for Gabe in the scene showing a moment of growth. And while you could say Theo just decided not to take masons pain. wouldn’t that have been better cause he gets points with mason for helping him and also would get points with Liam for helping his best friend. Then theirs the fact that Theo didn’t have to help the pack anymore, they didn’t have anything on him to control him, they had broken the sword. He was helping cause he wanted to and while you could say it was manipulation if he truly was still evil he wouldn’t have put himself at risk cause he ultimately would put himself first he wouldn’t drag Liam’s unconscious body cause, that would have been too risky for him or with the ghost riders he would have done what he said and just have left Liam to be captured and get out of town but he still helped and put himself at risk. Also in season 5 he was shown to try to corrupt the pack to try and get them to be darker like him which is why he got stiles to kill Donovan, yet in season 6 he actively stops Liam from killing twice and even gives him advice on his anger, and unlike stiles where it’s in self defense with Liam they would have been full on murder yet he stops him.

Ultimately Theo’s character is kinda ambiguous cause they barely give us anything of his past and what they do give us can interpreted in different ways. This is why a lot of people have different views on Theo so you can’t just say everybody else but you is wrong when theirs things in the show to explicitly show his redemption. But you can still see it as manipulation cause of how his character his. But that’s more to the person but most including I see it as him growing and becoming better.

sorry but this has to be said because i?? can't understand how some people can't seem to fucking grasp that theo taking gabe's pain was NOT character development, and consequently don't understand that therefore it was also NOT genuine??? theo has NEVER fucking shown an ounce of authentic care that was not driven by his own self-interest/desire. he would both do AND say anything to get closer to scott, even AFTER killing him. if given the opportunity, he would do it AGAIN. you think theo wasn't fully aware of the opportunity that presented itself in that situation? WHO did he have the easiest access to that looked up to and trusted scott the most? LIAM. if theo could have a display of "growth" in front of liam, that literally EQUATES to building credibility and trust with SCOTT. word gets around, no one in beacon hills shuts the fuck up about the things they witness. you can't tell me liam wouldn't relay this information to scott, that theo didn't absolutely KNOW that everyone in a thousand mile radius would know how "he'd changed/grown/whatever the fuck." and i don't know how much louder i can say this, BUT THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE IN THIS LIFE THAT CANNOT BE REDEEMED, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT REDEMPTION. theo is inherently INCAPABLE of being saved. there's no amount of love, of communication, and no amount of trust that will alter his chemical make up. theo's environment has NEVER be one of safety, and he has NEVER been driven morally to do the right thing. he doesn't CARE when he does the wrong thing as long as it gains him POWER. how many times did he willingly show he did not have any regard for anyone he hurt when it actually came down to it? how many times did he LIE? how many times did he lead people to think he cared WHEN HE DIDN'T? how FAR was he willing to go and how CALLOUS was he when people finally realized what he was doing? and the sheer amount of posts saying "i'm so proud of theo," and "look how much he's grown" make me CRINGE because it's so apparent the blatant lack of understanding of his character. i absolutely PRAY that none of you have encountered or will encounter someone like theo in your life, because those are the type of people who destroy EVERY BIT of you who are, remove you from yourself, strip you of all your prior beliefs, and ruin EVERYTHING they touch. STOP MISTAKING WELL-EXECUTED AND CONTINUED MANIPULTION FOR GROWTH.