How Do You Feel About Mormons?
How do you feel about mormons?
Hello my darling! Please accept my sincerest apologies for the extreme tardiness of this answer. I will not bore you with excuses. Suffice to say, I’m sorry :( Incidentally, I am incredibly inspired to answer this question when I’m supposed to be writing an Ecology essay. Funny how that works, isn’t it?
Now, to start off: The important thing to remember is that I am approaching this with a completely open mind, as unbiased an attitude as I can get, and an academic curiosity. Whatever your beliefs on the topic of theism, I think that’s just dandy and I find it very interesting. One of my best friends is Muslim, and many of my good friends and atheists, and I’m a Christian and it doesn’t matter. I talked to some Mormons in my research for this answer, and they were super nice! I’m not judging, condemning or criticizing.
All that being said, obviously, since I’ve chosen Christianity, I think that’s the right choice. That’s the last I’m gonna say about it though.
Okay, here we go.
The first question to address when talking about Mormonism is this: are Mormons christians?
I’m gonna have to go with”no” on that one. :S All the Mormon sources I read said they were, and all the Christian sources I read said they weren’t. Go figure, right? I really wanted an unbiased opinion on this one, so I went to good ol’ BBC. They didn’t really pick a stance. But they did give me an overview of the Mormon articles of faith. Here is some of the stuff I found: -Mormons believe that God is an exalted, perfect man. -Mormons believe that there is more than one God. -Mormons believe that human beings have the potential to become like God.
Right there, right off the bat, if you know anything about Christians and about the Bible they build their doctrine on, you’re gonna see some red flags.
God is not an exalted man. God is God. He always was, and always will be. He is eternal, was never created, and never changes in His nature.
Hebrews 13:8 - “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.” John 1:1 - “In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God and The Word was with God.” Genesis 1:1 - “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” John 8:58 - “Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth - before Abraham was, I AM.’” 1 Corinthians 1:25 - “This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.” Isaiah 40:28 - “Have you never heard? Have you never understood? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of all the earth. He never grows weak or weary. No one can measure the depths of his understanding.”Psalm 90:2 - “Before the mountains were born, before you gave birth to the earth and the world, from beginning to end, you are God.”
There’s only one God.
Isaiah 46:9 - “Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.” Deuteronomy 4:39 - “ Know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.” Ephesians 4:6 - “One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”2 Samuel 7:22 - “Therefore you are great, O Lord God. For there is none like you, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears.” Revelation 22:13 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”Humans cannot become like God. We are created by God, for God, and - yes - are made in the image of God, but that simply means that we have souls of spirit, and can go to heaven when we die, but we will never be like the one, the true, the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, eternal, infinite God.
Genesis 2:7 - “Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.”Ecclesiastes 12:7 - “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”Ephesians 2:8-9 - “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Okay, so don’t you think it’s weird that a religion which claims to be a branch of Christianity possesses a doctrine which in some parts, is in direct opposition of the book which defines Christianity? Especially in some of the most fundamental parts of the faith - the nature of God and the nature of man. There is literally nothing else more integral to the Christian worldview than those two things.
To ask “if God created the world, who created God?” is almost an oxymoronic question, because if God created the world, I don’t think it’s necessary for someone to have created Him. We fall so often into the trap of thinking about God in terms of our teeny tiny natural existence. We live in a universe defined by space and time, where everything has a beginning and a cause. But that’s because the very fabric of space and time itself was woven by a God who is entirely outside of space and time. Therefore, everything that exists is made by God, is of God, and could not exist without God. The periodic table of elements, the universe, light, heat, thought, existence itself is maintained by God. He. Is. Everything. So how could you imagine that He previously existed as a man? Or that man could become like Him? Man would not be apart from Him. If you accept the very concept of GOD, you must accept also that He is the original, fundamental being, and that He is not a part of our universe, our universe is a part of Him. Trippy, I know. I’m just saying all this so that you get the scope of how drastically Mormon doctrine differs from what we’ll call “mainstream” Christianity.
Also, I am severely skeptical of this Joseph Smith guy.
See, the Book of Mormon happened because Joseph Smith felt that there were too many opposing voices and opinions in the world, and He needed guidance, so he just asked God for guidance, and had a spiritual experience. Now, I am of the belief that even in all things spiritual, one must remain a critical thinker. Here is the first thing I thought about Joseph Smith: “If I am confused about a certain issue and am looking for an answer, the very first place I will go is the Bible”. Come on, are there not equally as many voices and opinions now as there were in 1823? Probably more. And yet, the bible is still relevant and still adequate for any answer I need. So why would I need to go searching for some big ol’ spiritual epiphany when God’s probably just like “I wrote it all down for you! Just read!” ? And spiritual experiences are suuuuuper tricky. I dunno ‘bout you, but when I *think* I hear God’s voice I’m usually like “that’s probably my imagination.” So then I’m like “God, you better hammer this into my head or I’m not gonna believe fosho that it’s you” because I over-think so much. I just think that if this Book of Mormon was legit, it would more widely accepted by biblical scholars.
See, God’s word is unlike any other book you’ve ever encountered. His words have more power than we can imagine. His is the book that has been under attack by dictators for centuries and has never been able to be completely eradicated. It was written in three different languages, on three different continents, by 40 different scribes, over a period of 1600 years and it still has 99% internal consistency on theology and 85% consistency in spelling and punctuation. I think that’s God’s way of showing us that it’s Him. No human could pull that off. And surely a book so old would be lost by now, especially since so many powerful people have tried to destroy all copies. And yet it’s the most widely distributed book in the world. Because it’s unique. It’s divine. It is a supernatural book. And the Book of Mormon just doesn’t measure up. I just feel like if God was really in this, it would be everywhere just like the bible is everywhere, because it would have that same power in its words. But it doesn’t.
Okay so….in conclusion!!!
I don’t know any mormons personally, but they’re people, so here’s what I know about them for sure: They’re kind and generous and empathetic. They have their strengths and weaknesses. They have their good days and their bad days. They are lovely and God loves them and I love and respect them.
Here’s what I think about their beliefs: They’re not Christians. I think that they’re something very close, but somewhere it got twisted such that I cannot in good conscience call it Christianity.
That, however, has no bearing on how I feel about them personally.
The end! Thanks for tuning into another one of my needlessly-massive answers!
Peace and love! -Katherine
More Posts from Depressionanddeconstruction and Others
The greater good is exactly the size of a single human life. The greater good is no greater than the well-being of the lowest member of society. To sacrifice any human for the greater good is to sacrifice the greater good itself.
I am not Christian, but I'm doing a project on Margery Kempe for school. She was a deeply religious person, her love for Jesus was so strong she would cry even at the thought of Him, as it remind her directly of His death. She morned for His death as if it had happened that very day. The society in which she lived didn't necessarily condone this behaviour. As someone who is religious what are your thoughts and opinions on Margery Kempe and her behaviours? I value your opinion.
Aww! You value my opinion?! I’m so honoured!
Okay so I have a lot of thoughts on the topic of Margery Kempe.
The first is that her religious education may have been slightly deficient.
I read that she wanted to become a nun but she couldn’t because she was already married. And also that she wanted to devote herself to a life of servitude for Christ but that she became a businesswoman instead. These two things are not mutually exclusive. God places people in innumerable different locations, vocations and situations as a part of his “master plan” (if you will) and people are just as effective in ministry as a teacher, a nurse, a lawyer, a doctor, a janitor, a McDonald’s employee or a plumber…as they are as a pastor.
Furthermore, a marriage need not be celibate to enhance your spirituality. Paul is one example of someone in the bible who was celibate and he wasn’t even married. He was just single. [EDIT: single at the time when he was writing the part of the bible that we read. SIDENOTE: Whether or not he may have ever been married is over my head and I have to do some more research. I’ll get back to you.] Paul said himself that it is “better to marry than to burn with lust” (1 Corinthians 7:9). And apparently ms. Kempe was subject to sexual temptations. God never intended for us to never ever have sex. He just designed it with a users manual (see what I said about sex here).
And finally, the whole confessing of your sins thing. Part of the reason she had her first vision was the panic brought on by the belief that she was not absolved from her partially-confessed “secret sin” and the fear of eternal damnation. Just for the record, that’s not how it works at all. You don’t have to go through a priest; you can speak directly to Jesus. And as soon as you tell him what it is you feel bad about and apologize for it, it’s gone. Poof! Might as well have never happened, for all He’s concerned. So for all these reasons, I think that Margery’s starting point was a bit flawed.
Second of all, if I met someone who behaved the way she did today, I would think they were a wingnut.
I’m 100% serious. She sounds like a straight-up lunatic. That being said, I am IN NO WAY saying that her visions were not real or that she was a liar. I know that Jesus loves her deeply and passionately, and that she is of infinite importance to Him. I just wonder at the way she reacted to them. I personally feel that she had some personal, very human, issues that acted as a filter through which she perceived her religion and that these issues affected her behaviours.
For example, take the fact that she had “sexually charged visions of Jesus” (found on spark notes, haha). woah. gurlfran, if you’re having sexually charged visions of Jesus, I think something is very wrong. Jesus is (as of right now) a totally spiritual being, and I think that a real and pure encounter with someone who is a totally spiritual being, could not be so closely associated with such a very carnal and physical desire unless it was corrupted by something.
Also, check out this quote from an interesting article I found on the topic:
“During the medieval period women were subjected to either of two stereotypes: They were the subject of clerical misogyny that saw women as the incarnation of every evil or docile, virginal martyrs – both extreme presentations. However, in a time when women’s voices were generally very rarely heard, female mystics who experienced ‘signs from God’, (such as visions), were empowered to speak out and challenge the social perceptions of themselves.”
Is it possible that the interactions between Margery’s gender and her religious experiences played a role in some subconscious motivation for her incredibly public displays of emotion? I’m just asking.
Finally, in that same article mentioned above, it says that modern-day psychologists say that she exhibited many of the symptoms of schizophrenia:
The inability to make or keep friends
A preoccupation with self
Anxiety
The obvious, delusions and visual and auditory hallucinations…”visions”, as it were.
Apparently, it is possible that her schizophrenia was triggered by “childbirth, bereavement and the exhaustive demands of a religious life.” Furthermore, “The form schizophrenia takes is directly linked to the cultural and social influences to the patient, and in the pre-scientific mass psyche of the Middle Ages, schizophrenia understandably manifested itself religiously.”
Okay, again, even though it may sound as thought I’m very skeptical (okay, I’m kind of skeptical) I am not negating the validity of her spiritual devotion. I’m not an expert, I’m just some chick in the 21st century with a laptop. I wasn’t inside her head, and I will never presume to fathom the ways of God. I just think that our religious beliefs and behaviours are filtered through our human experience, and I think that she had a lot of filters.
The third thing I thought when reading about Margery Kempe was, “but…Jesus isn’t dead anymore.”
It’s a terribly simplistic and childlike thing to think, but it’s true nonetheless. I understand that she mourned for the depth of his suffering, and the time, when He was on the cross. That’s cool. We all should, and do, take time to understand the inhumanity and cruelty of His murder. I honestly think that history was arranged in such a way that Jesus had to endure the cruelest form of death ever devised by man.
HOWEVER. The really exciting thing…the thing on which our whole entire system of belief is founded…the thing that blows my mind…is that Jesus DID NOT STAY DEAD. I told my grade one-ers on Sunday morning: “Jesus beat Death!” And He is risen, and He is reigning, and His victory over death brought life for you and for me. And so weeping continuously reminds me of this skit. Jesus is no longer dead and we cannot treat Him as such. We should be celebrating His resurrection and His victory, and the freedom that brings to us!
Last thought, I promise. Have you ever heard the expression, “too heavenly minded to be of any earthly good”?
Now you have. That’s what I think about Margery. I mean if, as Christians, we truly believe in the love and mercy and gospel of Jesus Christ, then our primary goal should be to attract people to Him and to show them His love. 2 Corinthians 5:13 says “If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit.” I interpret that verse this way:
Humans are primarily spiritual beings in physical shells. And our creator is a majestic, infinite, wonderful, awe-inspiring, spiritual being. And when we closely encounter Him, it messes us up, man. In a good way. Such experiences manifest themselves in the physical world (some say “in the natural”) in interesting ways, like strange languages, tears, laughter, trembling, and sometimes falling down. I think that when one experiences an encounter with God, the only natural response is an involuntary outpouring of emotion. I mean, it’s God. Our instinctive reaction to His presence is awe and worship. But I’ve only ever seen these things happen in a church service, which is a safe environment, where we’re not gonna scare anybody. You would generally not expect to see someone having a “God moment” in the middle of the street.
And we have to be conscious of our “dual-citizenship”, if you will. Yes, we are spiritual, and we must live as such. But we are also physical, and we are put here, in this physical world, for a reason. We’ve got stuff to do. And if we’re walkin around cryin all the time, we’re not gonna get anything done.
So like, you said that you’re not a Christian. And you know that I am. If we know each other in person, hopefully I have never behaved in a religiously fanatical manner in your presence. I try to keep that toned down ;) in all seriousness, I try to be as in the world (while not being of the world) as I can. If we’ve never met in person, I promise I’m not gonna dissolve into tears at the sight of any babies. I won’t hit you with bibles or throw holy water on you. I’ll try to be pretty normal :)
IN CONCLUSION (”finally!”, you say): Margery Kempe was probably a devoted christian woman, who truly loved her lord, but who lacked the proper religious education, and who was somewhat troubled and misguided.
Thank you for the question :)Peace and love! -Katherine
How do you feel about Westboro Baptist Church and the things they do?
ASJDFGHJKLKJHGFDSTYDERTGVBHYGTF THEY MAKE ME SO ANGRY.LEVITICUS IS NOT THE ONLY BOOK IN THE BIBLE! READ THE NEW TESTAMENT!
THE GOD YOU CLAIM TO FOLLOW IS NOT A GOD OF HATE! HE IS A GOD OF LOVE! HE LOVES EVERYONE AND HATES NO ONE! Ugh. I must admit, they drive me to violent urges. They infuriate me beyond words because they preach literally the antithesis of EVERYTHING my God is and yet they say that they follow the same God as I do. How is that even possible? How can someone spew hate and vitriol and say that it’s of God? Rest assured, it is not of God. God is love. Overwhelming, unconditional, infinite, scandalous, inclusive, all-consuming, all-effacing, sanctifying, redeeming, love. LOVE is literally the closes thing to the character of God that we have here on earth. Therefore, I ask you, how can someone be so absolutely full of hatred and be in line with God’s will? They cannot. Having said that, it is my personal belief that though they claim to be Christians, they are not Christians. Allow me to share with you one of my favourite quotes:
Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites, I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For I and he are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath’s sake, it is by me that he had truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do a cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted.
That’s a quote from The Last Battle by C.S. Lewis. Aslan represents God and Tash represents the devil. I think this quote is extremely applicable to our current discussion, and the cruelty committed by the Westboro Baptist Church, though done in God’s name, is not done in the service of God, but in the service of the devil. That goes for all the evil deeds of misguided, blinded churches in the past, including the Spanish inquisition, the Holocaust, etc. It saddens me greatly that the one philosophy which should be completely pure of hatred and dissension - Christianity - is so incredibly corrupted and perverted in so many of its divisions. I maintain that people who truly know and love God are people of love, grace and acceptance, not of hatred and violence. How such abominations of the faith occurred is due entirely to prideful people who filter the word of God through their own (WRONG) worldview. And the saddest part of all this is that God loves the people of the Westboro Baptist Church. He loves them desperately, and He wants them to fully realize and understand the power of His transforming love for them, and for everyone, because when you know, truly know the love of God, you are never the same again. And if they actually knew God, they would not behave the way they do. My hope is that someday they will know the God they claim to serve, and that their acquaintance with Him will change everything. Sooo…there you go. Peace and love! -Katherine
I share the same respect for Kim, Paris and Snooky as we all should, but they are famous because, well Kim and Paris posted their sex tapes and snooky... is snooky. Are people being imprudent by knowing their weight, bra size and who they slept with or is society just following for their game? On the topic of celebrity gossip, look up: The Sociology of Gossip: Elaine Lui at TEDxVancouver... Food for thought?
Haha I actually watched that video about a month ago and very much enjoyed it! And I can see her point. For those of you who haven’t watched the video, Elaine Liu studies the trends in celerity gossip and can therefore surmise a lot of information about society’s attitudes towards things like gender role and rape culture. I will concede that it’s a very interesting branch of social science, but that’s just one benefit of celerity gossip. It’s not a reason to partake in celebrity gossip. Because there are also many disadvantages to celebrity gossip. As I said, there’s the violation of privacy. There’s also its effects on us to be considered.
I strongly believe that celebrity gossip erodes our empathy. Elaine said that what we gossip about reveals our attitudes. But the fact that we gossip at all also reveals something about our character. As I said, we treat these people like a commodity for our consumption. That’s damaging to us. As soon as we can mentally distance ourselves from any other human being, we lose a bit of that compassion that connects us all. Empathy means feeling someone else’s pain. But it also means that every single other person in the world deserves kindness because they’re just like you. And as soon as we see someone as a product instead of a person, we lose a bit of humanity.
So when you say stuff like “following for their game” or “Snooki…is Snooki”, I get the feeling that you mean that these celebrities are not being hurt by our gossip because it’s what they want. Again, I would ask you to look in the metaphorical mirror and pause for some introspection. How have we even made it possible for Snooki to make a living by “being Snooki”, which I imagine means being outrageous in all aspects of life? Like, if someone has a great voice or sick musical talent, I’ll support that. If someone is a good actor and I enjoy their work, I’ll reward that by watching their movies. That’s talent, and that’s their job. But I can’t help but feel like my brain cells are dying when I watch Jersey Shore. I don’t want to be a part of an industry that exploits the sex, drugs and drinking of someone’s real, every day life. I don’t want to play their game. I don’t like their rules. So yeah, there’s my take on it. It’s an aspect that I didn’t even mention in the post itself, but I think it’s equally important. :P
Have a great day! Peace and love! -Katherine
10 Awesome Quotes from C.S. Lewis
“Though our feelings come and go, God’s love for us does not.”
“The Christian does not think God will love us because we are good, but that God will make us good because He loves us.”
“You don’t have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.”
“I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.”
“Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself.”
“A man can no more diminish God’s glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word ‘darkness’ on the walls of his cell.”
“To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you.”
“God can’t give us peace and happiness apart from Himself because there is no such thing.”
“Pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our consciences, but shouts in our pains. It is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
“I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.”
Sometimes, I want to take your face in my hands, look you in the eyes, and say this:
You are enough. You don't have to try to be anything more or anything different than exactly who you are. You are worth it. You are worthy of my time and my attention and my love. You have so many good qualities. You can't see them all, but I guarantee you that I can. You are loved. Everyone around you cares about you. You are lovely. You touch and inspire those you come in contact with every day. I really really want you to love yourself because I love you and it makes me sad to see that you don't love yourself. Everything you feel is normal, and it's okay. But I want to tell you that sometimes feelings lie. And if feelings ever tell you that you're anything less than wonderful, and loved, and perfect exactly the way you are, they're lying. You will get through this. You are strong enough. You have people around you. You're gonna be okay. You are okay. You can do this. And last but certainly, not least, I'm very proud of you. Love, Me.
simone weil said "absolutely unmixed attention is prayer." to pay absolute attention to the injustice in the world is to recognize the absence of God in the world. to pay attention to God's absence is to manifest his presence in the places where he is most needed, for the most vulnerable, for those who need him the most, for those he loves: the ones to whom he gives attention.
"he is risen" if you believe in him then he rose 2000 years ago. put down your roses and get in the dirt there are people suffering now get out in the street there are people being occupied get out in the world maybe he is risen but it is your job to keep him alive
That full thing about sex was deep. As a christian who has drifted away, I took more out of that than any devotion. Good work, Im not gonna stop - but I respect your decision.
WHAT! DUDE MAN BRO. (Okay, I know I just effectively destroyed any illusions of me being deep). But wow, thank you for taking the time to come tell me that. :) I appreciate that a lot, and your respect for my decision! The respect is reciprocated for yours. :) Mostly I'm just glad you actually took the time to read it and moreover, actually got something out of it.
You're awesome and I love you. Thanks :)-Me
please see pinned post. queer christian currently deconstructing my faith and trying to unlearn religious legalism and prejudice. pro choice. sex is a spectrum. gender is a construct. protect trans kids. stop nonconsensual surgeries on intersex babies. black lives matter. indigenous lives matter. land back. free palestine. (canada) every child matters. (canada) no pride in genocide. i'm a white settler living on stolen land trying to be anti-racist and anti-colonialist.
250 posts