I Am Not Christian, But I'm Doing A Project On Margery Kempe For School. She Was A Deeply Religious Person,
I am not Christian, but I'm doing a project on Margery Kempe for school. She was a deeply religious person, her love for Jesus was so strong she would cry even at the thought of Him, as it remind her directly of His death. She morned for His death as if it had happened that very day. The society in which she lived didn't necessarily condone this behaviour. As someone who is religious what are your thoughts and opinions on Margery Kempe and her behaviours? I value your opinion.
Aww! You value my opinion?! I’m so honoured!
Okay so I have a lot of thoughts on the topic of Margery Kempe.
The first is that her religious education may have been slightly deficient.
I read that she wanted to become a nun but she couldn’t because she was already married. And also that she wanted to devote herself to a life of servitude for Christ but that she became a businesswoman instead. These two things are not mutually exclusive. God places people in innumerable different locations, vocations and situations as a part of his “master plan” (if you will) and people are just as effective in ministry as a teacher, a nurse, a lawyer, a doctor, a janitor, a McDonald’s employee or a plumber…as they are as a pastor.
Furthermore, a marriage need not be celibate to enhance your spirituality. Paul is one example of someone in the bible who was celibate and he wasn’t even married. He was just single. [EDIT: single at the time when he was writing the part of the bible that we read. SIDENOTE: Whether or not he may have ever been married is over my head and I have to do some more research. I’ll get back to you.] Paul said himself that it is “better to marry than to burn with lust” (1 Corinthians 7:9). And apparently ms. Kempe was subject to sexual temptations. God never intended for us to never ever have sex. He just designed it with a users manual (see what I said about sex here).
And finally, the whole confessing of your sins thing. Part of the reason she had her first vision was the panic brought on by the belief that she was not absolved from her partially-confessed “secret sin” and the fear of eternal damnation. Just for the record, that’s not how it works at all. You don’t have to go through a priest; you can speak directly to Jesus. And as soon as you tell him what it is you feel bad about and apologize for it, it’s gone. Poof! Might as well have never happened, for all He’s concerned. So for all these reasons, I think that Margery’s starting point was a bit flawed.
Second of all, if I met someone who behaved the way she did today, I would think they were a wingnut.
I’m 100% serious. She sounds like a straight-up lunatic. That being said, I am IN NO WAY saying that her visions were not real or that she was a liar. I know that Jesus loves her deeply and passionately, and that she is of infinite importance to Him. I just wonder at the way she reacted to them. I personally feel that she had some personal, very human, issues that acted as a filter through which she perceived her religion and that these issues affected her behaviours.
For example, take the fact that she had “sexually charged visions of Jesus” (found on spark notes, haha). woah. gurlfran, if you’re having sexually charged visions of Jesus, I think something is very wrong. Jesus is (as of right now) a totally spiritual being, and I think that a real and pure encounter with someone who is a totally spiritual being, could not be so closely associated with such a very carnal and physical desire unless it was corrupted by something.
Also, check out this quote from an interesting article I found on the topic:
“During the medieval period women were subjected to either of two stereotypes: They were the subject of clerical misogyny that saw women as the incarnation of every evil or docile, virginal martyrs – both extreme presentations. However, in a time when women’s voices were generally very rarely heard, female mystics who experienced ‘signs from God’, (such as visions), were empowered to speak out and challenge the social perceptions of themselves.”
Is it possible that the interactions between Margery’s gender and her religious experiences played a role in some subconscious motivation for her incredibly public displays of emotion? I’m just asking.
Finally, in that same article mentioned above, it says that modern-day psychologists say that she exhibited many of the symptoms of schizophrenia:
The inability to make or keep friends
A preoccupation with self
Anxiety
The obvious, delusions and visual and auditory hallucinations…”visions”, as it were.
Apparently, it is possible that her schizophrenia was triggered by “childbirth, bereavement and the exhaustive demands of a religious life.” Furthermore, “The form schizophrenia takes is directly linked to the cultural and social influences to the patient, and in the pre-scientific mass psyche of the Middle Ages, schizophrenia understandably manifested itself religiously.”
Okay, again, even though it may sound as thought I’m very skeptical (okay, I’m kind of skeptical) I am not negating the validity of her spiritual devotion. I’m not an expert, I’m just some chick in the 21st century with a laptop. I wasn’t inside her head, and I will never presume to fathom the ways of God. I just think that our religious beliefs and behaviours are filtered through our human experience, and I think that she had a lot of filters.
The third thing I thought when reading about Margery Kempe was, “but…Jesus isn’t dead anymore.”
It’s a terribly simplistic and childlike thing to think, but it’s true nonetheless. I understand that she mourned for the depth of his suffering, and the time, when He was on the cross. That’s cool. We all should, and do, take time to understand the inhumanity and cruelty of His murder. I honestly think that history was arranged in such a way that Jesus had to endure the cruelest form of death ever devised by man.
HOWEVER. The really exciting thing…the thing on which our whole entire system of belief is founded…the thing that blows my mind…is that Jesus DID NOT STAY DEAD. I told my grade one-ers on Sunday morning: “Jesus beat Death!” And He is risen, and He is reigning, and His victory over death brought life for you and for me. And so weeping continuously reminds me of this skit. Jesus is no longer dead and we cannot treat Him as such. We should be celebrating His resurrection and His victory, and the freedom that brings to us!
Last thought, I promise. Have you ever heard the expression, “too heavenly minded to be of any earthly good”?
Now you have. That’s what I think about Margery. I mean if, as Christians, we truly believe in the love and mercy and gospel of Jesus Christ, then our primary goal should be to attract people to Him and to show them His love. 2 Corinthians 5:13 says “If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit.” I interpret that verse this way:
Humans are primarily spiritual beings in physical shells. And our creator is a majestic, infinite, wonderful, awe-inspiring, spiritual being. And when we closely encounter Him, it messes us up, man. In a good way. Such experiences manifest themselves in the physical world (some say “in the natural”) in interesting ways, like strange languages, tears, laughter, trembling, and sometimes falling down. I think that when one experiences an encounter with God, the only natural response is an involuntary outpouring of emotion. I mean, it’s God. Our instinctive reaction to His presence is awe and worship. But I’ve only ever seen these things happen in a church service, which is a safe environment, where we’re not gonna scare anybody. You would generally not expect to see someone having a “God moment” in the middle of the street.
And we have to be conscious of our “dual-citizenship”, if you will. Yes, we are spiritual, and we must live as such. But we are also physical, and we are put here, in this physical world, for a reason. We’ve got stuff to do. And if we’re walkin around cryin all the time, we’re not gonna get anything done.
So like, you said that you’re not a Christian. And you know that I am. If we know each other in person, hopefully I have never behaved in a religiously fanatical manner in your presence. I try to keep that toned down ;) in all seriousness, I try to be as in the world (while not being of the world) as I can. If we’ve never met in person, I promise I’m not gonna dissolve into tears at the sight of any babies. I won’t hit you with bibles or throw holy water on you. I’ll try to be pretty normal :)
IN CONCLUSION (”finally!”, you say): Margery Kempe was probably a devoted christian woman, who truly loved her lord, but who lacked the proper religious education, and who was somewhat troubled and misguided.
Thank you for the question :)Peace and love! -Katherine
More Posts from Depressionanddeconstruction and Others
Remembering 9/11
Well...there's nothing like a tragedy to bring a nation together, is there? I mean, I live in Canada, and we were rocked by 9/11. The whole world was rocked by 9/11. With good reason. It was a truly horrific event. The sheer symbolism is enough to appall us, and the numbers are truly devastating. There are a couple things that stand out to me when contemplating the memory of the attacks.
It is not our tragedies that define us, but how we respond to them. America, you're beautiful. The stories of love, selflessness and compassion that have emerged as a result of this tragedy are testaments to the quality of your people. Since then, you have rallied brilliantly, and the construction of the freedom tower in passive defiance to terrorism is admirable.
Tragedies reveal our character. Like I said, you're beautiful. And so I know that your country has a beautiful soul, made of raw humanity, love for one another, and resilience. I pray that you won't let petty differences mask that soul. In the light of such an all-consuming and overwhelming tragedy, you can see your fellow human better. And the differences that cloud your view most of the time seem to fade away. You know what I'm talking about. Age, gender, race, and sexual orientation are all secondary to humanity. I pray that you try to remember the love you have for humanity in times of crisis and preserve it in times of peace and prosperity.
We cannot forget these tragedies. I know that the news seems saturated with bloodshed. That's because it is. Because the whole entire freaking world is saturated with bloodshed. But we can't turn a blind eye. We can't cover it up. We can't pretend it doesn't happen. And we can't forget it. This violence, this hatred, it's a part of us as a race. The world is ours to own, and look at what we've done with it. We've soaked the soil and watered the trees with our own blood. We've filled the skies with the cries of the innocent being slaughtered. We've written the history of the planet in death tolls. And if we ever hope to change, we cannot forget. We must know where we've been if we want any hope of knowing where we're going. For those who do not know their past are doomed to repeat it. So remember the world's tragedies with reverence and respect, and let that motivate you to strive for a better tomorrow.
9/11 is no more representative of Islam than the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition or the Holocaust are symbolic of Christianity. Just because Christianity is the religion of the white majority means that the crimes against humanity committed in the name of our God are forgotten. Of course, these crimes are not truly crimes of Christianity, because as I've said before, my God is a God of love, and not of hate. So as I'm sure you know, the above-mentioned crimes against humanity are not sanctioned or tolerated by the Christian all-loving creator. So why would one believe that 9/11 was sanctioned or tolerated by the Muslim all-loving creator. One of my best friends is Muslim, and all of our conversations about religion reveal that we believe fundamentally the exact same thing. If there is still confusion, one need simply look at the terrorists who committed 9/11 as the Muslim equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. Make sense?
Please let today be a day of remembrance, a day of tolerance, a day of acceptance and compassion, and most of all, a day of hope. Peace and love :) -Katherine
Aww thanks bb! :)
Self Respect and Slut Shaming Another one of my rants, because you know I can’t resist giving my opinion on a sensitive topic. This one is on video! Yay! *Pixelated some stuff because I’m conservative **Song in the background is Revo by Walk Off The Earth
Shrinking Women - Lily Myers
God does not expect you to be a Wall Street executive. God does not wish you were making six figures. God does not wish you had a happy-go-lucky personality. God does not wish you would just “Get yourself together already!” We are not on our own. We are not broken beyond repair. We are not doomed to be our parents (2 Kings 21:21; 2 Kings 22:2). We are not condemned by our heavenly Father for being in process (2 Peter 3:15). He knows us and loves us and is working patiently in and with us
Are you aware of the process of courting before engagement? It's like hands-off dating until you're engaged and then only hugs and hand-holding until you're married. How do you feel about this, is it something you would do?
Hello! I am indeed aware of such a process! In fact, one of my best friends is Muslim and that’s basically what they do…it’s like hands-off dates with a chaperone. I know it sounds sooo tiresome, but the whole point is to find out whether you are interested in spending the rest of your life with this person. And honestly, it sounds to me like they’re perfected the art of dating.
I am very incredibly interested in what it would be like. I think I really would try it. I don’t think that it’s necessary to remain pure, and I’ve always looked rather askance at the concept of saving your first kiss for your wedding day (simply because I think it’s a tad extreme, and unnecessary). So I don’t exactly think that it’s the right way to do it, but I think it sounds very interesting. It might be a good idea :P
I find that the physical aspect of a relationship has the potential to cloud judgment. Provided I can determine whether or not I’m physically attracted to someone and be aware of it (which I can, I dunno bout you :P) - because physical chemistry still is and always will be a very important part of a relationship - I think that it’s a “smart” way to do dating. You spend your time productively finding out how your values and worldview line up, and discussing thoughts and ideas instead of just, like, macking. :P
Because as important as physical chemistry is, it’s not what holds a marriage together. Mutual respect, appreciation, admiration and commitment is what holds a marriage together. And it’s possible that the way most people do dating focuses too closely on the physical aspect, and doesn’t prepare them for the future. So I think the process of courting *could* potentially produce stronger marriages.
So in theory, I’m all for it. In practice…….
Honestly, I don’t even know if I could do it :P Well, I guess I could. I probably wouldn’t like it though :P When I’m in a relationship, the mental energy I devote to the physical part is divided evenly between paranoia about PDA and “I can’t wait to kiss him again”. So I think in one way, it’d be best kind! In another, it would annoy me. Thankfully, my love language is not physical touch! It’s words of affirmation, so I think that as long as I got to talk and text, I’d survive.
Haha that was probably a long of information about me you didn’t need to know. But hopefully, it helps you understand my perspective. :)
Thanks for the question! Peace and love! -Katherine
What is your opinion on abortion? Especially in cases where consummation was due to rape?
Basically, “a person’s a person, no matter how small.” - Horton Hears A Who, Dr. Seuss.
If you’re super curious, you can read this blog post by someone I admire greatly, pastor and theologian John Piper. I think that through some miracle, as soon as the sperm unites with the egg, no matter how you break it down to the molecular level, that’s a new person. I don’t think that it’s part of the mother’s body, because each new cell being formed contains a full complement of DNA that is made up of DNA that comes from two separate people and not just from the mother. The DNA in each of those cells codes for a hair colour, an eye colour, a height and a gender. It’s the unique DNA of a person who is an entity unto themselves. And as a Christian, I don’t believe that any human has the right to decide when any other human should die. To me, that child inside of me (hypothetically) is a human. God makes each and every single one of us special and beautiful and He loves us individually. There are verses in the bible that tell us that He knows us before we’re born, that His eyes saw our unformed bodies (Psalm 139:16). Like I said before, if God said it, that’s a good enough reason for me. In the ‘traditional’ (for lack of a better word) case, the sex was consensual but unprotected, resulting in an unwanted pregnancy. Let’s use suspension of disbelief and operate in a theoretical world for a minute here. In such a case, some might say that it’s the woman’s “choice” to have an abortion. You know what I think is a choice? Having sex. Even past that, you know what else is a choice? Using a condom. In today’s western society, there is NO EXCUSE for an unwanted pregnancy. We have the technology and we have the education. If you don’t want to get pregnant, you don’t have to. Any kid can waltz into planned parenthood and get birth control without their parents even knowing. HOW!? I ask you, do people still manage to get pregnant “accidentally”? So for me, once you’re pregnant, you’ve already made your choice, and now you have to face the consequences. Okay, now we have to face the situation where sex was not a choice, and conception was due to rape. Obviously, I have never been in this situation and hopefully never will, but you never know. That’s why I’ve already decided that abortion is never an option for me. I don’t care what you say, I honestly can’t even consider the thought of killing the baby inside of me (hypothetically). It’s not even just an intellectual, religious standpoint. Whether this adds to the validity or not, it’s also a highly emotional standpoint. I CANNOT think of killing that child. Cause here’s the thing. It’s not the child’s fault. And if we’re still operating on the assumption that that’s a real PERSON, we can’t kill him or her for someone else’s crime. Also, just so you know, many women who have been raped, gotten pregnant and had an abortion, said that the abortion was more invasive and traumatic than the rape. AND many women who have been raped, gotten pregnant and had the baby, said that having the baby was cathartic in a way, and helped them see something positive that came from such a negative experience, and thereby helped with the healing process. I’ve heard girls say that they would never have an abortion unless they were raped. And I’m like “hold up now,” cause is that like it’s murder most of the time, unless you were raped, then it’s not murder? Like, whut? See to me, abortion is either always wrong, or not. And to me, it’s always wrong. To reiterate, this is my opinion. And I’m working with abstract ideas and concepts here. That’s how I think best. I’m just trying to give you an idea of my worldview as it pertains to a philosophical issue. As I’ve said before, and will say again, no decision you have ever made, whether it be different from my decisions or not, will change my opinion of you.
Jesus said that the most important commandment is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength (okay, cool, makes sense) BUUUTTT….the SECOND most important commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 22:37-39; Mark 12:29-31) And there are entire chapters of the bible devoted entirely to the importance of loving people (1 Corinthians 13) So! Here are the facts:
Fact Number 1: Jesus loves you. Like, He really, REALLY loves you. Deeply, passionately, intimately, overwhelmingly. He loves you enough to die for you. He loves you so much that He DESPERATELY wants to have a personal relationship with you - to talk to you, to hear your thoughts and to walk with you through this life. Fact Number 2: I love you. I think that every single person in the world deserves to be loved and deserves to be respected simply due to the fact that you are a person and God made you and loves you. Okay, so now we’ve established that Jesus loves you and I love you, for no other reason than the fact that you’re alive, and no matter what. That cannot be altered, edited, ignored, abated, cancelled out, destroyed or denied.
^That’s like my mantra of life, you guys. And nothing changes it. If you are reading this, and you are someone who has had an abortion, obviously I’m not in your shoes, I don’t have your life, and I don’t know your situation. And I will NEVER EVER judge you. I’m just talking about my choices, which are a completely personal thing. Peace and love! -KatherineP.S. I’m answering all these questions on the assumption that they come from good-natured curiosity, and that you genuinely want to know what I think. I don’t want to spark debates, and I definitely don’t want to participate in them. I’m not into arguing about my faith. P.P.S If I ever offend you or hurt you by something I write, please let me know. I know that I sometimes speak (or write) without thinking. I’m trying to be honest, but gracious, and I might accidentally say something dumb sometime. If I do, let me know and I will definitely apologize and do my best to repair any damage. I’m gonna put my email address in the blog description so you can contact me privately if you want.
I'm not attacking your beliefs, i'm just playing devils advocate. Why do you believe in Christianity? There's no proof of any reality to the bible.
Here :)
Don't you think that a physical relationship and sexual chemistry are a big part of a relationship too? I understand the principle of celibacy but I feel as if the physical connection is also very important in a serious relationship and it's something worth exploring before marriage.
YES. ABSOLUTELY, the physical aspect of a relationship is suuuuuuper duper important! You can’t have a healthy, functioning relationship without it. However, I don’t think that you need to have sex before marriage to figure that out. For me, I can tell if I find someone attractive the first time I look at them; I can tell if we have good chemistry the first time we flirt; and I can tell if I want to have sex with them the first time we kiss. Sooo I think that the physical chemistry and sexual tension is evident very early on in the relationship, and you don’t have to have sex to figure that out.
Also, in my ideal world, both I and my husband will be virgins on our wedding day, so we’ll sort of..embark on a journey together wherein we learn and try new stuff and experiment together. Kind of like…a blank slate. So we go in to he marriage open-minded and with an empty canvas and it ends up being a masterpiece. I think our marriage will be stronger because of that.
That’s just me :P Peace and love! -Katherine
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please see pinned post. queer christian currently deconstructing my faith and trying to unlearn religious legalism and prejudice. pro choice. sex is a spectrum. gender is a construct. protect trans kids. stop nonconsensual surgeries on intersex babies. black lives matter. indigenous lives matter. land back. free palestine. (canada) every child matters. (canada) no pride in genocide. i'm a white settler living on stolen land trying to be anti-racist and anti-colonialist.
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