Shadow Of The Erdtree - Blog Posts
It's absolutely heart breaking.
something else that I can't stop thinking about is how good Ansbach is despite being a follower of the Mohgwyn dynasty. Throughout the entire base game, all of Mohg followers are so cruel and twisted. All they care for is shedding blood, no matter who's it might be. But Ansbach is different. He's kind, and loyal and forgiving. And seeing someone like that hold Mohg in such high regards… It just makes me wonder what he and his dynasty might have been like before Miquella sunk his claws into Mohg's heart.
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This isn't even touching upon the fact that Radahn himself almost definitely rejected Miquella's request to be his consort. The dude's a golden order loyalist that thrives on the battle ground. I don't see him suddenly siding with Miquella to make the world a "gentler place." Especially since him and Malenia got into such a violent battle during the shattering. And how there's no record anywhere in the game about the connection between Miquella and Radahn.
Because it's entirely one sided.
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I feel so incredibly bad for everyone Miquella used his powers to manipulate. They all deserved better.
Mohg deserves an apology
Knowing that he was used and manipulated all along hurts, but the fact that his corpse was violated and disrespected in such a way actually makes me want to vomit. Mohg didn't deserve this. He didn't deserve to be bewitched he didn't deserve to be fed pretty lies that made him go mad he didn't deserve to be used as fodder for the tarnished and he didn't deserve to treated like this in death. It makes me so sad. At least morgott had a choice, at least morgott died in his father's arms. Mohg gets nothing. Nothing but desecrated and disrespected. The only one who fought for his honor was ansbach. the amount of pain he must have felt knowing his beloved lord and master was used as a puppet for so long, only to be desecrated and used to feed miquellas selfish wish. Miquella was never once a victim. Mohg was the victim all along. And we don't even get a fitting consolation prize after avenging him.
Do you know how grossed out I am. I was like wait why does radahn have horns on his arms and then the realization hits me because it's mohgs body they used. Miquella used mohgs dead body as the vessel for radahn. And you kill them both. In the end I guess radahn got what he wanted he wanted to be related to Godfrey. Just sucks he had to violate mohgs body to do that.
Even with the recent developments with Messmer, I personally still believe that the smouldering butterfly is supposed to represent Melina. The main reason is because of the butterfly's main use as kindling.
Messmer might have a lot of fire stuff going on, but Melina embodies the butterfly much more. Not only was she seemingly born burned and bodiless, much like the smouldering butterfly is born eternally burning, but she also acts as kindling to burn the erdtree in a similar way the butterfly does for crafting items.
The butterfly's represent the main curses of all 3 of the youngest siblings. Malenia's being rotted, Miquella's appearing eternally young and Melina's being burned and inevitably used as kindling.
I personally don't see the connection to Messmer other than the fact that they both share fire motifs. And even then, he's presumably not a part of Malenia and Miquella's sibling group as he's likely one of the oldest demigods, so it wouldn't make too much sense for him to be the third butterfly in the trinity.
Y’know, something peculiar I’ve noticed while looking through item descriptions is how absent Marika seems to be in all of her children's lives. Rennala, Radagon and Godfrey are all either outright mentioned in things revolving some of their children, or are heavily hinted at within other parts of the game
i.e Abductor virgin’s protecting Rya Lucaria academy, something Rykard likely chose to do to protect his mother.
Rykard and Radahn both once having high standing positions in the golden order, likely due to Radagon.
Despite Radahn directly looking up to Godfrey he still wore his fathers red hair with incredible pride, even though it was something Radagon hated about himself.
Rennala was the one to introduce Ranni to the dark moon and other celestial entities.
Radagon and Miquella have both gifted each other incantations that they had developed for one another.
While brief, Godfrey holds Morgott in his arms as he fades into grace, being there for him in a way he was unable to when he was younger.
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But Marika… doesn’t seem to have anything. No comment of her doing anything or developing anything with any of her children, no small interactions that made it into item description flavour text. Even when it comes to her golden child Godwyn, there’s practically nothing.
For a while now I’ve wondered why this was. Why did Marika seem to be so absent in all of her children's lives? She has 9 direct descendants and not one seems to have a notable experience with her. But then after watching the new cinematic trailer, something dawned on me.
What if it was Messmer?
What if the things Messmer did in the name of Marika and her order during the shadow land war were so monstrous and unforgivable, to the point where the land of shadow was hidden away and he himself was erased from history that she just couldn’t bring herself to attempt a connection with the rest of her children?
Afterall, Marika seems to hate fire with a passion. Anything and everything in the lands between that has any connection to it is something she tries to snuff out. The giants and their forge, the crucible and their fire breathing abilities, the dragons, even the omens have bloodflame magic if Morgott and Mohg are anything to go off of. Even the phrase “flame of ambition” seeming to be a very negative term is something that’s throwing shade at the idea of fire.
And what is it that Messmer is so well known for?
His flame. Messmer's flame. The very same flame he used to purge the land of shadows.
It just hit me that this mass bewitchment ability we see in the trailer is almost definitely an incantation, judging by what looks to be a golden seal in the tarnished's hand.
Which has got me thinking. Miquella has ties to both the bewitching branches ability and incantations, which means this is very likely an incantation connected to Miquella in someway, even possibly being a reward for his remembrance.
I'm not sure I like the implications that Miquella has a bewitchment spell that works on summons/spirit ashes that he could use against us in a possible fight.
Anyone else getting Marika's bedchamber vibes from the curvy shapes draping from the branches of the Shadow tree?
also ummm.... Maybe St. Trina? The area has the general color scheme of the sleep effect in Elden Ring, they're surrounded by Trina's Lilly's and the character in shot seems like they could be sleeping. They're also about the right size to be an alter ego of Miquella with the right hair along side it.
ok first major thought about the trailer
If my theory that Melina and Ranni's closed eye/eye marking being the mark of an empyrean is correct then that means Messmer the Impaler could also be one as well due to his closed eye (he could also have a marking that's being obscured by the helmet in the trailer)
But the red hair also catches my eye, something that is extremely prevalent in Radagon's family, to the point where almost every descendant of his shares the same hair color. Except for Miquella, who's twisted form modelled by Mohg looks strikingly similar to Messmer's body.
It's really hard to get good shots of Messmer's body but I hope my observations are at least somewhat coming through. Now I'm not saying that Messmer is Miquella, but I do think he could be related in some way, possibly even being the personification of all the corruption from Mohg and the formless mother. We don't really know how Empyreans create offshoots of themselves but this sort of thing has happened before, mainly with Malenia and her daughters seemingly inheriting shards of her personality.
Anyway I definitely think Messmer is an Empyrean and possibly related to Radagon, but everything else is just a hypothesis at this point.
Just to add onto this, Messmer's name follow's the same naming conventions of the children of Marika (Mohg, Morgott, Malenia, Miquella, Melina and now Messmer)
oh this dlc is gonna be so fucking good, prepare for me to be very normal about this for the following weeks
There’s some sort of comedic irony to how many people have latched onto Miquella as this sort of ‘holier than thou’ good guy of the elden ring story, especially considering how little we actually know of him.
I’m not saying that he isn’t this pure, uncorrupted pillar of righteousness that people present him as, there’s obviously no way for me to know that, but the absolute certainty that people talk with when discussing his character that he only had everyone's best intentions at heart is kind of funny when you realise that one of the only things we know about him for certain is that he learnt how to compel the affection of others.
Out of every unknown character in this game the community could unanimously decide is a great person it's just funny how it ended up being the character with the cannon ability to make people like him unconditionally.
Star Theory: Elden Ring outer gods and the 'nature of the universe'
(I'm feeling particularly neurotic so you're suffering with me)
SO, in case you aren't aware, which is entirely possible i barely knew of it before, but stars have life cycles! Which is weird, right? And the fact that it's never brought up in Elden Ring despite the fact there's this sense that Markia and everyone is supposed to be old as hell? And there's an entire academy dedicated to learning of the stars?
Well, dear reader, do I have the explanation for you! This will be long winded, so bear with me! And if there's someone who's already done this, you should probably listen to them instead!
first and foremost, stars are made up of conflicting forces, gravity pushing in, heat pushing out. But, to keep things more poetic, and in line with the whole fantasy aspect of elden ring, let's call it the Devouring aspect and the Creation aspect. Gravity creates pressure, trying to devour itself, but creates it's own feed to feast upon. Easy to follow?
As such, everything exists in perpetuity, creating itself and living in cycles? Or more importantly, every action has its equal opposite reaction. Life begets death, so on so forth. So everything lives in duality, having one part of itself necessary to oppose to creat more of it.
now, that's just how a star works, but there's more than one type of star, and thus life cycles.
this is a more rudimentary visual, but it gets the point across, alright?
Quick to start, let's cover backstory (or at least what I assume the backstory is) of the One Great, Greater Will, and what not for a quick understanding. But keep the visual in mind!
First, we can safely (?) assume that the One Great from Hyetta's dialog is likely in reference to the big bang in some capacity, so that's the beginning of the universe covered. One Greats dead, created everything, blah blah blah.
Next! As said in something about the glinstone sorcerer Azur(?) he witnessed the Greater Will's death, where it likely then became a Black Hole (the mass death of stars around it?) [Comet Azur and the Primeval Current is likely in reference to the nature of the expanding universe, akin to how water spreads out from a droplet of water, just on a mass scale i guess, given it almosg looks like rushing water to me]
Wverything after that and during when the Greater Will was up and running? no idea, not really important for my argument anyways.
So where does that leave Metyr and Elden Beast? Well, Metyr has the Neutron star attack, and given that she's the prodigal daughter of a dead god, it seems like she witnessed at least some of the death maybe? Or is at least aware of the 'end' of gods in something capacity, maybe. Elden Beast however seem more like stabilized core of a star given its veins of gold, and given that the Greater Will was a God of Order, it makes sense that at least one of them seems somewhat stable. (Sorry Metyr)
On to the outer gods and the necessity of duality!
As you can see, there are multiple forms of stars! Red and Yellow as main focal, with maybe othefs?
So! Let's start with the obvious,
The Blood Star- red? Check. Small or large? Eh. Formless Mother? What?
As I said about duality, and stars, one begets the other. The Devouring agent and the Creation agent.
Specifically, let's take a quick detour through religious inspiration. And I'm gonna make this quick.
*There is this belief that a whole being is made up two people, one masculine one feminine. Greeks had it in the creation mythos of man, and there's probably a Buddah or two that have the same shtick, unfortunately I'm not overly familiar with that game, but you get my point.
And in some eastern beliefs, i believe Taoism, there is a dichotomy between the masculine and feminine. One physical and other spiritual, repectively*
Point is, if stars can represent outer gods, and a whole being is made up of two. Than it's likey that Devouring agent and Creation agent have their respective gods conjoined into one star but still separate identities! (So Marika and Radagon?)
-The easiest outer gods to apply this logic to are the ones I mentioned up top, The Blood Star and Formless Mother. Both deal in blood, one masculine and demanding sacrifice of blood in the physical, with the whole history of blind prisoners. while the Formless Mother 'asks' for blood with 'promises' of something in return, a bargain like upping Mohgs wings to a latger size, and has a more creation aspect given the Mother moniker. As well as 'gifting' her blood to people, such as Mohg, and a piece of her flesh in the DLC blood fiends cult cave place that they apparently ate. Perharps, some kind of desire to be devoured in the sense of missing a whole part of the self where life is born from death? Through the pressure of the star then creating heat?
-Next would be: The Rot! I think that with the whole Lake of Rot being a more red-red color, it was defeated by the blind swordsman(? right?) when it was in its masculine phase, and then switched over into the more feminine side, trying to spread it's influence through any means necessary as a dying star! Thus taking on a more pinker color through Romina's bud, being 'born anew' by it in some capacity and also seemingly taking nest in feminine figures, Romina and Melania! (Also through Milicent being 'born' of Melania through odd means?)
-The Twin Birds would likely be a blue star in some capacity, likely quite large given that they represent death and all that. However, that's as far as I can get really. And death has its whole thing going on with Godwyn as well and I just don't wanna touch it.
-The Fell God and The God Devoring Serphant (Not the Abyssal Serphant) are kind of intertwined due to proximity, and the giants forge having serphants on it. As well as Rykard and Eiglay being in a volcano, as opposed to the giants forge being on a mountain top surrounded by snow. Life, Death. Fire, Ice. Duality, ya know?
-The Abyssal Serphant likely exists in duality to the One Great rather than something more simple, which is why it snake imagery slips into everything despite everything being born of the One Great. Abyssal Serphant devours, the One Great, creates. Not specifically a star, but it's good to get it out of the way now real quick. But will show up later! And it's similar to Dark Souls!
-The Frenzied Flame, the big doozey. You know how I said everything exists in duality? Well, what better way for duality to exist then for duality to be dual in itself? If you want 2, you can't just have the single number, you need two! So why not 2 and 3? Confused yet? Duality needs duality to be duality. As such, Order is Chaos. That easy.
-The Greater Will and The Frenzied Flame, are two sides of the same coin. Creating order, the other wanting to burn it all down. A microcosm of the One Great and The Abyssal Serphant pretty much. The first wanting to continually exist in perpetuity creating, the other a harbinger of the end itself. Heat death of the universe pretty much, i guess.
-The moons?
I don't wanna talk about the moons. In our guiding stars very own lordly words, Count Ymir, they are simply the closest celestial bodies. (I'm lying)
Okay so what's up with tem? Are they gods? No? Then what are they? If they are gods, then why isn't there a god of the Lands Between? It's a terrestrial body isn't it? If the moon is like greek myth, the titan Selene, where is Gaia?
Well, that's where Marika (and Radagon) come in. So, as we learned in the DLC, a god requires a lord, and when we finish the main game, unless we choose Ranni's ending, we become Marika's consort. So, perhaps it's something similar to such? The necessity of duality?
-My leading theory, with everything else already explained, is that maybe the Greater Will was an outer god, killed Placidsaxes god? In some way? And then needed some kind of 'vessel' to keep the lands intact and in order. Thus, Marika. The chosen Empyrian. (The Gloam Eyed Queen is likely another Abyssal Serphant coming up through the cracks of creation, in opposition to the One Great/Greater Will 'lineage'? It's another microcosm)
-But then Radagon? How? well, if a god requires two forces acting against each other, makes sense that he's the masculine force to Marikas feminine and spiritual, whole shaman thing, side. Thus creating a whole god, but yet only one i regarded as a god, with Radagon yet to become her; in that famous line Melina tells us.
-But then Ranni? And Miquella? Well, Miquella got his consort, and divested himself of his femininity; when it likely made him a true god in the first place or at least the empyrian in the lead to godship, but we kill him so who knows.
And Ranni is backed by the moon. And I don't wanna talk about the stupid moons and her four arms. She divested herself of her flesh anyways, so who knows!
-The shadow bound beasts aren't even really fleshed out, Miquella doesn't seem to have one, so I'm not sure where they stand in all this. Maybe they really are just failsafes and Miquella didn't need one because he wasn't going in a drastic direction according to the Greater Will (technically Metyr but whatevs)
yeah and I think that's it. thanks for reading!
oh yeah! almost forgor
The Crucible is likely the other half of the primeval current, kind of? In my mind, with how the primeval current represents the ever expanding universe, it can kind of be compared to a stream of water. and in that water sediment gets picked up and tossed around and deposited, that being aspects of the crucible, life itself i guess? born from the One Great's death explosion; yet instead of a dichotomy of life and death, Creation and Devouring; it'd be more like Life itself being born, then Time running its course, leading to eventual death.
Star Theory: Elden Ring outer gods and the 'nature of the universe'
(I'm feeling particularly neurotic so you're suffering with me)
SO, in case you aren't aware, which is entirely possible i barely knew of it before, but stars have life cycles! Which is weird, right? And the fact that it's never brought up in Elden Ring despite the fact there's this sense that Markia and everyone is supposed to be old as hell? And there's an entire academy dedicated to learning of the stars?
Well, dear reader, do I have the explanation for you! This will be long winded, so bear with me! And if there's someone who's already done this, you should probably listen to them instead!
first and foremost, stars are made up of conflicting forces, gravity pushing in, heat pushing out. But, to keep things more poetic, and in line with the whole fantasy aspect of elden ring, let's call it the Devouring aspect and the Creation aspect. Gravity creates pressure, trying to devour itself, but creates it's own feed to feast upon. Easy to follow?
As such, everything exists in perpetuity, creating itself and living in cycles? Or more importantly, every action has its equal opposite reaction. Life begets death, so on so forth. So everything lives in duality, having one part of itself necessary to oppose to creat more of it.
now, that's just how a star works, but there's more than one type of star, and thus life cycles.
this is a more rudimentary visual, but it gets the point across, alright?
Quick to start, let's cover backstory (or at least what I assume the backstory is) of the One Great, Greater Will, and what not for a quick understanding. But keep the visual in mind!
First, we can safely (?) assume that the One Great from Hyetta's dialog is likely in reference to the big bang in some capacity, so that's the beginning of the universe covered. One Greats dead, created everything, blah blah blah.
Next! As said in something about the glinstone sorcerer Azur(?) he witnessed the Greater Will's death, where it likely then became a Black Hole (the mass death of stars around it?) [Comet Azur and the Primeval Current is likely in reference to the nature of the expanding universe, akin to how water spreads out from a droplet of water, just on a mass scale i guess, given it almosg looks like rushing water to me]
Wverything after that and during when the Greater Will was up and running? no idea, not really important for my argument anyways.
So where does that leave Metyr and Elden Beast? Well, Metyr has the Neutron star attack, and given that she's the prodigal daughter of a dead god, it seems like she witnessed at least some of the death maybe? Or is at least aware of the 'end' of gods in something capacity, maybe. Elden Beast however seem more like stabilized core of a star given its veins of gold, and given that the Greater Will was a God of Order, it makes sense that at least one of them seems somewhat stable. (Sorry Metyr)
On to the outer gods and the necessity of duality!
As you can see, there are multiple forms of stars! Red and Yellow as main focal, with maybe othefs?
So! Let's start with the obvious,
The Blood Star- red? Check. Small or large? Eh. Formless Mother? What?
As I said about duality, and stars, one begets the other. The Devouring agent and the Creation agent.
Specifically, let's take a quick detour through religious inspiration. And I'm gonna make this quick.
*There is this belief that a whole being is made up two people, one masculine one feminine. Greeks had it in the creation mythos of man, and there's probably a Buddah or two that have the same shtick, unfortunately I'm not overly familiar with that game, but you get my point.
And in some eastern beliefs, i believe Taoism, there is a dichotomy between the masculine and feminine. One physical and other spiritual, repectively*
Point is, if stars can represent outer gods, and a whole being is made up of two. Than it's likey that Devouring agent and Creation agent have their respective gods conjoined into one star but still separate identities! (So Marika and Radagon?)
-The easiest outer gods to apply this logic to are the ones I mentioned up top, The Blood Star and Formless Mother. Both deal in blood, one masculine and demanding sacrifice of blood in the physical, with the whole history of blind prisoners. while the Formless Mother 'asks' for blood with 'promises' of something in return, a bargain like upping Mohgs wings to a latger size, and has a more creation aspect given the Mother moniker. As well as 'gifting' her blood to people, such as Mohg, and a piece of her flesh in the DLC blood fiends cult cave place that they apparently ate. Perharps, some kind of desire to be devoured in the sense of missing a whole part of the self where life is born from death? Through the pressure of the star then creating heat?
-Next would be: The Rot! I think that with the whole Lake of Rot being a more red-red color, it was defeated by the blind swordsman(? right?) when it was in its masculine phase, and then switched over into the more feminine side, trying to spread it's influence through any means necessary as a dying star! Thus taking on a more pinker color through Romina's bud, being 'born anew' by it in some capacity and also seemingly taking nest in feminine figures, Romina and Melania! (Also through Milicent being 'born' of Melania through odd means?)
-The Twin Birds would likely be a blue star in some capacity, likely quite large given that they represent death and all that. However, that's as far as I can get really. And death has its whole thing going on with Godwyn as well and I just don't wanna touch it.
-The Fell God and The God Devoring Serphant (Not the Abyssal Serphant) are kind of intertwined due to proximity, and the giants forge having serphants on it. As well as Rykard and Eiglay being in a volcano, as opposed to the giants forge being on a mountain top surrounded by snow. Life, Death. Fire, Ice. Duality, ya know?
-The Abyssal Serphant likely exists in duality to the One Great rather than something more simple, which is why it snake imagery slips into everything despite everything being born of the One Great. Abyssal Serphant devours, the One Great, creates. Not specifically a star, but it's good to get it out of the way now real quick. But will show up later! And it's similar to Dark Souls!
-The Frenzied Flame, the big doozey. You know how I said everything exists in duality? Well, what better way for duality to exist then for duality to be dual in itself? If you want 2, you can't just have the single number, you need two! So why not 2 and 3? Confused yet? Duality needs duality to be duality. As such, Order is Chaos. That easy.
-The Greater Will and The Frenzied Flame, are two sides of the same coin. Creating order, the other wanting to burn it all down. A microcosm of the One Great and The Abyssal Serphant pretty much. The first wanting to continually exist in perpetuity creating, the other a harbinger of the end itself. Heat death of the universe pretty much, i guess.
-The moons?
I don't wanna talk about the moons. In our guiding stars very own lordly words, Count Ymir, they are simply the closest celestial bodies. (I'm lying)
Okay so what's up with tem? Are they gods? No? Then what are they? If they are gods, then why isn't there a god of the Lands Between? It's a terrestrial body isn't it? If the moon is like greek myth, the titan Selene, where is Gaia?
Well, that's where Marika (and Radagon) come in. So, as we learned in the DLC, a god requires a lord, and when we finish the main game, unless we choose Ranni's ending, we become Marika's consort. So, perhaps it's something similar to such? The necessity of duality?
-My leading theory, with everything else already explained, is that maybe the Greater Will was an outer god, killed Placidsaxes god? In some way? And then needed some kind of 'vessel' to keep the lands intact and in order. Thus, Marika. The chosen Empyrian. (The Gloam Eyed Queen is likely another Abyssal Serphant coming up through the cracks of creation, in opposition to the One Great/Greater Will 'lineage'? It's another microcosm)
-But then Radagon? How? well, if a god requires two forces acting against each other, makes sense that he's the masculine force to Marikas feminine and spiritual, whole shaman thing, side. Thus creating a whole god, but yet only one i regarded as a god, with Radagon yet to become her; in that famous line Melina tells us.
-But then Ranni? And Miquella? Well, Miquella got his consort, and divested himself of his femininity; when it likely made him a true god in the first place or at least the empyrian in the lead to godship, but we kill him so who knows.
And Ranni is backed by the moon. And I don't wanna talk about the stupid moons and her four arms. She divested herself of her flesh anyways, so who knows!
-The shadow bound beasts aren't even really fleshed out, Miquella doesn't seem to have one, so I'm not sure where they stand in all this. Maybe they really are just failsafes and Miquella didn't need one because he wasn't going in a drastic direction according to the Greater Will (technically Metyr but whatevs)
yeah and I think that's it. thanks for reading!
messmer addresses his loyal knights
so there's this guy... *explodes + crashes + trips + falls down the stairs*
Make Miquella stop. Don't turn the poor thing into a god.
Godhood would be Miquella's prison.
A caged divinity... is beyond saving. You must kill Miquella...
Grant him forgiveness.
-St. Trina
I AM DODGING SHADOW OF THE ERDTREE SPOILERS LIKE W MADMAN I DONT WANT TO KNOW ANYTHING
the elden ring twitter just posted this and i’m so alive bc WHAT IS THAT
Hidden in the darkness 🐍🐍