Could U Elaborate More On What U Said About How Dick Is The Linchpin Of Dc?

My last dissertation proved definitively posited that Zoro does not get jealous over Luffy, except in the live action where he is hilariously transparent and insecure. But what about the other way around?

[For a delightful representation of the sentiments conveyed within this rant, I highly recommend the fic good things take time by cosmosthistle. It’s a beautiful piece of writing that exactly embodies my understanding of Luffy as a maturing MC with naive yet complex feelings. It’s a pretty popular fic but give it a read if you haven’t had a chance!]

Can we all agree that Luffy has abandonment issues? For a happy-go-lucky guy with no inner dialogue, he’s genuinely afraid of losing those closest to him. He can’t go on without his crew. This was my number one takeaway from Sabaody. Luffy is inherently possessive over his entire crew. They make up a key part of his identity, and he will fight the world for all of them.

Out of his entire crew, I’ll dare to say Zoro is probably the most of the most important to Luffy. Again, Zoro is Luffy’s voice of reason, moral support, enabler, and rabid attack dog rolled into one muscular package. Luffy holds him in high regard. He is 100% possessive of Zoro. But is he insecure about Zoro’s feelings for him to develop feelings of jealousy over his swordsman?

My answer is, yes, at times. And it sounds crazy because why would Luffy be insecure?! Who is more loyal than Zoro?! The crazy part is, Luffy can be too naive and vulnerable at times to see Zoro’s complete devotion.

At Water Seven when Zoro prevents him from welcoming back Usopp, Zoro actually threatens to leave if Luffy doesn’t hold his ground. And while there is no way Luffy would sacrifice Zoro to get Usopp back, the fact that Zoro voices the threat at all shocks Luffy to the core. Luffy already can’t deal when a crew member leaves (Nami, Usopp, Robin, Sanji). I can’t even fathom what he’d do if Zoro left him.

While Zoro has shown his loyalty time and time again to the audience, to Luffy, his initial promise was if Luffy stood in the way of his dreams, he’d cut Luffy down. And Luffy will never know what Zoro did for him at Thriller Bark. Luffy doesn’t know the extent of Zoro’s devotion (and I think he’d be furious if he ever finds out). Luffy thinks Zoro and him are equals; he doesn’t realize Zoro has placed his captain above his own ambitions, that Zoro is his. He may feel it, but he doesn’t know it at his core.

Because of this unknown, Luffy has the potential to feel insecure should something/someone else take away Zoro’s attention. If someone appears able to offer Zoro something Luffy can’t/hasn’t, Luffy would be confused, unable to voice his frustration, and generally drown in a jealousy he cannot explain. This is more of a potential pre-time skip.

In summary, Luffy, especially early One Piece Luffy, definitely has the potential for jealousy. I hope we get to see more of that in fics as writers become more confident at portraying Luffy as a complex, multifaceted character.

i find it so fitting that luffy met (and freed) zoro at his weakest- starved, restrained, with his execution impending. i find it equally fitting that the moment zoro was free of those restraints, he almost immediately blocked luffy from a fatal attack.

their relationship, from their very first meeting, has always been a reliance on each other without shame. luffy didn’t move when that axe was coming down on his head or a hoard of marines ran towards him, trusting zoro to stop them, and he didn’t turn the other way when he saw the infamous pirate hunter he sought out to be his first crew mate helplessly tied to a cross either.

they are unbeatable forces of nature but with each other they show weakness, in fact, they often allow themselves to be weak. their unconditional trust to cover each other’s backs gives them the rest they need in a battle to allow them to finish it.

it’s truly such an astounding thing to me to be so completely vulnerable in someone’s hands. to not block, or flinch, or move, because you know someone will save you no matter what. to fall asleep on the battlefield with two yonko because you need a minute, and you know harm will never come to you if the other person is there.

one of the foundations of zoro and luffy’s dynamic is vulnerability at the most important times. and hugely, their comfortability in that vulnerability because they are by each other’s side. from their very first interaction they showed what could’ve hypothetically been life-ending weakness but they saved each other. and from that moment they never stopped doing so

So i’ve been wondering abt how the next conflict will unfold after the current breather in the manga… and i can’t help but suspect (and hope) that maybe, just maybe it’ll have something to do w Suo.

I say this bc currently, it looks like we’re getting the backstories of the main group one-by-one (Sugishita, Kiryu, possibly Sakura).

And at the same time, chapter by chapter, we’ve been getting tiny little snippets of Suo’s suspicious actions/habits in the background: him wearing a swim shirt/staying out of water, Kiryu deliberately mentioning how he’s not eating again (there is a separate panel of this interaction, so it’s clearly important as it’s divided from other dialogues), him taking control of the conversations and manipulating them in his favor in both ch 171 and 172…

I really feel like something is brewing in the background when it comes to this boy, bc all of this happened in the last 4 chapters which he appeared in.

But most of all, what really concerns me is this line:

Throughout ch 173 he seemed to handle the tension of the Kiryu-family quarrel with such unnatural level-headedness, he’s the only one who is still staring straight ahead in the panel below, not being startled at all by the yelling.

He’s also the only one who’s observant enough to sit back in the same exact place after spying on Kiryu

All of these reactions, habits and behaviors just make me suspect that he might have a difficult familial situation, where he had to hide emotions, learn how to be observant and a smooth-talker, manipulate his way out of situations, grow up way too quickly…

And well, let’s not forget how he says that his best skills are at negotiating, making the enemy “cough up information” and do as he says…

I’m honestly kind of a believer of the “Suo has ties with the mafia” theory, or at least i think he has some seriously dark familial situation and knows some shady ppl… he’s the only person who Nirei had no notes on, nobody heard anything about his days before Furin (except that he’s a good fighter)… it’s all just too suspicious tbh.

And well. As the story and world-building progresses, each conflict in the manga has been more and more dangerous and intense: first we had the one-on-one’s with Shishitoren, then the more violent Keel-conflict, then we had straight up adults fighting in the Roppo-Ichiza vs Gravel arc, and ultimately the war with Endochika + Noroshi… i wonder what could be more intense than this last arc.

Still, Wind breaker hasn’t been truly dark up to this point, so i highly doubt that a story about a group of wholesome delinquent high schoolers would delve into some less PG stuff involving the mafia. The story is more about acceptance, community and personal growth, a violent and darker gang arc would be quite out of place imo.

However, i truly suspect it will be Suo’s backstory that’ll serve as a transition to the next conflict/heavier arc.

But as always, feel free to disagree, this is only just my personal opinion and theory<3

Thank you so much for the lovely message @kayharts! Sakura and Suo are one of my fave duos in WBK as well, and there’s a lot that can be said about these two! I’m happy that my posts were able to provide the insight you needed.

To answer your question, this is actually something I’ve actually been meaning to make a writeup about, so your ask prompted me to actually make a post for it lol. But without further ado:

Sakura’s perspective of Suo

To start off, I’d like to say that Sakura hasn’t exactly regarded Suo on an individual level. He considers him as a part of his community alongside his other peers.

Sakura doesn’t have any of his internal dialogue that directly acknowledges Suo (as he did for Endo) or ‘impactful’ memories of him (like with Umemiya and Nirei) that shapes his development outside of Suo’s advice.

The only exception is this scene in Chapter 145, in which Sakura’s view on Suo is quite… convoluted, to say the least.

The reason why Sakura thinks that Suo is “full of crap” is because of how he constantly lies to mess with Sakura specifically (though Sakura hasn’t picked up on this). And yet, Sakura still believes every word Suo says…

This even bleeds into how Sakura addresses to Suo’s direct praise with apprehensiveness (though he does blush more at the words; you aren’t slick Sakura).

Coupled with the incessant teasing and the way Suo had treated Kanuma in Shishitoren, it’s no wonder why Sakura generalizes him as someone who “teases everyone at every chance he gets”. This isn’t remotely true; though Suo does tend to poke fun at others, his main victim is Sakura himself.

But then again, that scene in particular is just Sakura over-generalizing his classmates (you can tell that Sakura and Kiryu were not that close back then because his opinion on him is the only one that’s remotely positive) in order to juxtapose the fact that he believes that his peers are genuinely good people in the next page. Because despite the misconstrued perceptions Sakura has on their “flaws”, he still wants to protect and live alongside the people he cares about.

Additionally, I would like to tack on a big yet to the first two statements of this post. Wind Breaker’s (and Sakura’s, to that extent) story is far from over, and there is much potential for how his and Suo’s relationship can develop further [between a protagonist and deurotagonist]. For now, I’ll focus on what has been established in canon.

Circling back to Shishitoren, we see that Sakura says Suo has a rotten personality. In fact, he is the only one who openly criticizes Suo’s treatment.

Despite this, he doesn’t seem to harbor much resentment towards Suo. In fact, one can argue that Sakura is more so curious, given the fact he had the initiative to ask Nirei more about him (when he hadn’t done so for the other Furin students). Sakura also wanted to fight Suo despite the latter not provoking him, and Sakura not actively applying Umemiya’s advice (of fights being a conversation) at that point of the story.

Sakura is also shown (and not told) to trust Suo wholeheartedly.

Before Noroshi, Sakura lets his vice captain come up with a strategy, relying on him to do something he has no expertise in. Despite Sakura’s embarrassment, he’s come a long way from being so afraid to ask for help from others before.

Sakura also reluctantly agrees to work with Sugishita despite their animosity, because it was Suo’s idea.

Suo also points out his Achille’s heel while fighting. Despite Sakura’s initial apprehensiveness, he chooses to believe in Suo in the end.

Following Suo’s advice works out in Sakura’s favor when he fought alongside Sugishita, and even his fights after Noroshi.

There’s also this scene in Roppo where Sakura imitates one of Kanji’s moves; he uses Suo’s shoulder to support himself (when he can jump to that kind of height by himself easily) and kick at Endo’s face.

As for what you said in regards of Sakura knowing whether Suo is hiding something deeper or not, nothing has been explicitly confirmed as now. Until we get something [meaningful] from Sakura that directly addressees Suo as a character, we won’t really know. In any case, Sakura would most likely respect Suo’s boundaries and not pry into his business (especially if Suo’s advice to Sakura stems from shared experiences).

I can definitely see where your speculation is coming from, though. It’s inevitable at this point; I’m 99% sure that Sakura’s request to fight Suo in Shishitoren (and Suo’s declaration to do his best) foreshadows a future fight between them. Given how closed off the two are as you said, it would be the only way they can understand each other.

I’m ready. I’m ready for my ZoLu jealousy rant. Part 1 of 2.

[BTW, this rant is also a behind-the-scenes look at the madness that came over me when I wrote the unsubtly titled fic, “Four Times Zoro Did Not Get Jealous (and the One Time Sanji Confronted Him About It).” Prior reading of the fic is not necessary for enjoyment of my insanity analysis.]

At its core, I believe jealousy arises from 1. a special regard and 2. insecurity. You don’t get jealous over someone you don’t care about. And if you’re confident in the other person’s feelings for you, there’s not much to be jealous about.

With our resident swordsman, he definitely holds Luffy in high regard, meaning there would be reason to feel jealous over Luffy. The question then becomes, has Zoro ever been given a reason to feel insecure about his place in Luffy’s life?

My stance on this is a solid NO.

I believe Zoro knows his worth, partly because he has ALWAYS worked hard to earn his place beside Luffy. He trains constantly and goes above and beyond to do everything he can to stay by Luffy’s side and be Luffy’s “wing.” And Luffy has shown time and time again that he trusts Zoro implicitly in pretty much everything except for directions. Zoro is Luffy’s voice of reason, moral support, enabler, and rabid attack dog rolled into one muscular package. Luffy appreciates the crap out of Zoro, and he has never hesitated to show it. He calls for Zoro first, is always delighted to see him, and gives Zoro the Sabo face-glomp treatment (TM) after just two weeks apart. Yes, all Straw Hats are created equal, but I’ll fight every One Piece fan to defend my view that in the eyes of canon Luffy, Zoro may just be a tad more special.

My point is, Luffy has never given Zoro a reason to be jealous, and Zoro is secure enough in his position within Luffy’s life that he doesn’t feel threatened by anyone else. He’s been petty, sure, like his insistence that he is worth twice as many men as Sanji, but I do think that is just Zoro’s competitiveness. Because why on earth would Zoro be jealous over Luffy? Who can even come between them??!

Don’t get me wrong, I like to indulge in a jealous Zoro fic any time. In fact, if you know any, send a link my way pls! At my core, however, I don’t think Zoro is the jealous type. Not over Luffy at least. Shippers of other Zoro pairings? You do you.

However! There’s always a caveat. I do believe Zoro gets possessive, but in the way that all Straw Hats get possessive over Luffy. Because Luffy is theirs. And when Luffy nearly kills himself to save a whole kingdom, I think they get a little protective over their captain, and they’d want to keep him to themselves for a while. Ultimately, they know they can’t. Luffy is meant for the world to love, and all the Straw Hats know this. Zoro knows this more than anyone, having been THE FIRST.

So at the end of an adventure, when the fight is over and adrenaline leaves him, I think Zoro frets and anguishes so much that he wants to lock up his captain in a room where nobody else can take another piece of him, because Luffy has given enough, dammit. But Zoro doesn’t do that, because Luffy would not want him to.

In summary, the conclusion of my book report is that no, Zoro doesn’t get jealous.

(But what about Luffy?! That’s coming in Part 2. I need to first write another 1000 words of my next fic.)

I think the Biggest Lie DC told is that the Robin mantle is meant to be a Legacy.

All I see from it, is Dick constantly compensating for the fact that it was initially stolen from him, and making nice with the next kid who inhabits it, and being weirdly obligated to taking them under his wing, out of a strange sense of moral obligation because he felt responsible for the role he made.

What’s weird is the fact that no one’s supposed to be Robin after him. He didn’t just “outgrow” it so much as he was mentally estranged from the role because of his disagreements with Bruce.

It’s Bruce who went territorial with it. It’s Dick who realized Robin could never be divorced from the idea of Batman.

Bruce went out of his way to give the costume inspired by the Grayson’s Death Shroud to a boy who never met them.

An appropriate legacy would be Clark inspiring the idea of Nightwing and essentially giving Dick his blessing to be patterned off of him and a “Super” legacy, while giving him the freedom not to be an echo of him, because Dick wanted to be his own man. That right there respects the term of Legacy.

Another Legacy, would be the Flash. Wally literally took the same mantle because he loved Barry, was inspired by him. He honored that Legacy. It’s a more literal interpretation of the word Legacy.

When the FUCK did Jason ever honor the Dick Grayson Legacy?

Was he ever even told about the origins of that mantle?

What inspired it?

No. He had no idea because Bruce just handed Robin over and thought he could replace Dick. Robin is an idea of Dick’s. It’s Dick who excels. Its Dick who fights crime and defends the innocent.

It’s nothing personal for Jason.

It’s just a cool idea to be “Batman’s Partner.”

No one’s honoring Dick’s Legacy.

It doesn’t exist.

What it became was a means to “Partner with Batman.” Wearing it, one gets to have the Dick Grayson “Experience” and hopefully “do it better.” (🙄Bitch please)

Bruce doesn’t ever realize how entitled he was in handing the mantle off to Jason. And later when he’s too mentally and emotionally sick after Jason’s death, Tim comes along.

But Tim also doesn’t honor the “Robin Legacy.” How can he if he’s being thrown at Bruce as a crutch for his mental health and well-being?

Dick as Robin was never “suicide watch” for Batman. Or a “reason for Batman to take care of himself.” And if he was, how is that a legacy?

Truth be told the Grayson Legacy never existed.

Dick never passed on a Legacy. He actually never had a say in it. It became an obligation.

Dick never had a say or a choice or an option to give Robin away to Jason. It’s only AFTER THE FACT, he gives his “blessing.”

But in honesty, he’s being noble in doing so. He’s not there to crush the dreams of an orphan kid. Bruce taught Dick how to Hope. And how everyone needs a little hope.

Robin is a dream.

Not a legacy.

And it turned into a Nightmare under Tim’s hands. Robin suddenly became a way for Bruce not to go off the deep end. And Dick didn’t have a choice because it was either allow it and buy Bruce time to get better, or stop Tim and let Bruce implode.

And implode Bruce did.

Suddenly, Bruce could wield the Robin mantle as a way to Manipulate Stephanie Brown and manipulate Tim Drake into staying because the dream of being Robin was a temptation both of them couldn’t handle, and Bruce knew that. He banked on it when he set their own insecurities against them.

The only time the Robin mantle went back to being a dream was for Damian Wayne. And even then it wasn’t a choice either. It was either do that or watch the kid self destruct or Destroy everything. For a kid who was a knife and nothing else, it was a way to become someone more noble. Dick helped him raise his standards to the inspiration of *Dick’s* version of Robin.

To become someone who doesn’t serve self interest.

Robin helps. Robin saves. Robin serves. Robin sacrifices. Robins hands aren’t bloody. Only his red breast, where his heart is.

Robin isn’t necessarily a personally driven story. Isn’t a coming of age story.

Dick’s Robin was always a Knight who served a kingdom Bruce dreamed up because between the two of them, Bruce was more hopeful and idealistic. Bruce dreamed up a Gotham that didn’t exist until Bruce and Dick tried to work to that end.

In actuality, Bruce taught Dick to dream.

And then Bruce went mad and the Robin mantle stopped being a dream Dick created and instead became a curse.

Okay, I hear you folks loud and clear. Here it is.

How Suo foils Sakura as a character

For starters, their personalities, on the surface, are quite different. Sakura is rather brash, but he is very upfront about his feelings and takes initiative when needed. Suo carries himself with dignity and grace, but remains passive and would much rather observe a situation unfold at a distance.

This translates into the way they fight as I’ve mentioned before. Aside from their fighting styles being completely different (Sakura’s kickboxing is close contact while Suo’s aikido lacks contact and focuses on deflecting attacks), the way they treat their opponents differ. While Sakura makes an effort to understand Togame, Suo imposes his own (contrived) worldviews on Kanuma. Sakura converses; Suo monologues.

Speaking of Umemiya’s philosophies, Sakura is known to eat a lot ( @furinfry made a really nice writeup on this theme, and they explain it much better than I can), even being dubbed a glutton by… Suo. Which is funny, because it’s been shown that Suo himself doesn’t consume food around others, claiming to be on a diet.

If Suo’s refusal to eat is a metaphor for his self-alienation from his peers, then Sakura’s acceptance of Umemiya’s advice is proof of his assimilation to Furin.

On the topic of alienation, Sakura is vulnerable and wears his heart on his sleeve; he unintentionally lets people into his world whether he realizes or not. Suo does none of these things—and his emotions are either (unintentionally) drawn out by the people he cares about, or when he witnesses something that contradicts his principles.

Sakura hates covering his appearance, while Suo makes it a point to do so (given that he literally wore a scuba suit to a beach).

The way they treat Nirei post-KEEL also differ. Suo is concerned for Nirei and helps foster his fighting skill to the extent of abilities, but Sakura remains rather ‘wary’/protective of Nirei (obligatory dead wife flashback mention)

There’s also the case with how they handle other people’s situations. Suo first observed and evaluates, then shares his own rational conclusion while Sakura tends to be upfront of what he feels about it.

The way their internal dialogues are written also differ. Sakura’s focuses on himself and his introspections (given that he’s the MC), and they’re very descriptive. But Suo’s is limited; he simply addresses the situation around him. The only time he introspects is to put himself below Sakura.

I’m probably missing a lot of things, but these are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

Additional Tidbits which add no value to this post:

Sakura’s flower is the Cherry Blossom, a tree that is so rooted in Japanese culture. Suo’s is the Chinese redbud, which is well… inherently Chinese (gotta tag @psychicwavementality for this one)

Sakura is learning how to cook, but Suo makes it a point that he prefers to bake instead

Sakura develops throughout the story, but Suo stays rather stagnant (I really want to make a writeup on this which also talks about Nirei’s development soon)

Suo’s character color is red; Sakura’s color is sometimes green (representing Furin). Both red and green are complementary colors on the color wheel.

I get emotional thinking about how his family would react to Bruce's change if he ever started working on himself, on improving his behavior. But the one I think about the most is Dick Grayson.

Alfred is the one who was there from the very beginning, but Dick Grayson is who arrived and made the biggest impact. He's the first kid who Bruce took in, the one who approached this man and became his first partner to fight by his side out in the night.

Dick was able to pull Bruce out of the darkness that consumed him. No matter how many times Bruce went back, Dick's presence was a constant reminder that there's not only shadows. That if Bruce pushes back, fights so he won't be dragged down, he will find light.

However, it was a cycle. Dick would get him out, but Bruce would go back, sooner or later. And repeat. And Dick realized this and knew he couldn't let that be his whole life. But despite the distance, it still affects Dick knowing he can't find a definite solution for Bruce.

So, seeing Bruce actually change, get better and seeing that last...it would lift the heaviest weight on Dick's shoulders, who's felt responsible for Bruce's emotions since the day he became Robin.

It's been implied to him that Bruce needs him, that he's who keeps him from falling. And Dick, despite not always feeling like he is enough, carries with that responsibility because, deep down, he also feels like he owes it to Bruce, who Dick has needed (still needs) present in his life, too.

Bruce getting better would be like being able to breath again, but it would be so suffocating too.

Dick would happy for Bruce, for the man who raised him. He'd be relieved that the hurt will stop, for both his father and those he's continuously pushed away. But then he'll be anxious, will it really last? How long until he can be sure? And he'll be scared, does he still need him, now? Does a Batman who's gotten help still need Dick Grayson Robin? Nightwing? And lurking in the back of his mind, there'd be anger. Why now? Why after all those years? Why not before? Was Dick not enough reason to change? Was he never worth this? And shame will drown those thoughts. It's selfish, to think that way. He should be happy. He wants to be happy. He is happy. But he is also mad. He's sad and he mourns the child who never saw this side of Bruce. And most of all, he loves. He loves Bruce too much to hate him for it. No matter how angry, no matter how hurt, he loves his father and he's grateful for him, for his efforts. And all he can do is smile and congratulate him because that's everything he feels he has the right to say.

And when all is said and done, Bruce will come to him and Dick will have to face the worst part of this change;

Apologies.

If Bruce has truly changed, then he would know there's more things than he can count with his fingers that he has to apologize to his son for. And out of everything else, this is what Dick Grayson fears the most.

Dick can take it, he can hear Bruce out, but he can't unpack all the pain he's been accumulating in front of his dad. He can't bring himself to say 'I forgive you' out loud despite having convinced himself long ago that it's alright.

Bruce doesn't didn't do apologies. Things happened and then went back to normal and Dick was okay with that. He forgave him, he did. So, Bruce doesn't need to apologize, he doesn't have to make him say it out loud. He can't tell him, but he's forgiven him long ago. Even if it hurt, even if he was still resentful sometimes, even if he wanted to yell at him for it, Dick could push it all down and forgive him. Bruce shouldn't apologize, shouldn't bring it up again because Dick isn't strong enough to keep it all bottled up if Bruce starts acknowledging it, if he confirms that Dick wasn't crazy for feeling wronged and hurt.

He can take it, but he really can't.

Just thinking about it drives me crazy because, out of everyone, Dick Grayson might be the kid who's been waiting for this the longest, and who thought he'd already given up the idea of his father finding a lasting happiness that would bring permanent change in him. And it would be just so overwhelming.

I feel like Dick and Damian definitely do regard each other as father and son to a certain extent but in a way that is so tied to Bruce's "death" that they'll never actually say it. Damian will just keep referring to Dick as his Batman, a role that has only ever meant father to him, and Dick will refer to Damian as his Robin, a name that has only ever meant son.