Oh No....the Full Moon...you Have To Run, I Won't Be Able To Control Myself Once I Tr-AUGH....GRRRRRRRAAAAAUUUYGGGGHHHHHH

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⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ 𝑏𝑦⠀⠀lotomiel

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Dorne and house Martell week > day 3: favorite pre-series era Dornish(wo)man

Princess Elia Nymeros Martell was the fourth child and first daughter born to the ruling Unnamed Princess of Dorne, and the second surviving infancy after Doran. Born a month premature, her health was always delicate. Elia was said to be beautiful, slender with black eyes. She was gentle, kind and clever with a sweet wit. Born about a decade after Doran but one year before Oberyn, she was particularly close to her younger brother. Elia and Crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen were betrothed in 279 AC and married the year after. Their marriage, although not romantic, seemed happy. Two children were born of their union: Rhaenys and Aegon, but the pregnancies strongly affected her health. Set up on his prophecy quest, Rhaegar humiliated her by crowning 16-year old Lyanna Stark Queen of Love and Beauty at the Tourney of Harrenhal, and then, by sparking Robert’s Rebellion following his kidnapping of Lyanna. During Robert’s Rebellion, she was kept with her children at King’s Landing by King Aerys II as hostages to prevent Dornish betrayal and to blackmail Kingsguard Lewyn Martell. She was murdered, alongside her children, during the Sack of King’s Landing by Gregor Clegane.

can someone please get this girl her dog back

who else up resisting the urge

Walk with me here, but I think a big part of this fandom's problem is idpol. It's why you have braindead takes like "Yes Mirri was right to kill the child of another enslaved child." "justice for the brown woman" but they never mention that Mirri's argument for the forced abortion of Rhaego is racially essentialist in nature. "The brown baby boy will grow up to be a huge brown rapist" was Mirri's argument and this fandom eats it up uncritically because they hate the "white slave owner".

Their arguments for mad kween Dany are also essentialist in nature. You can never escape the cycle of generational trauma and violence. She will eventually become like her rapist father because his evil is literally written into her genes. No matter how far you come or how high you go, you will never escape your genetics.

I wouldn't mind criticism of Dany's actions if they dug deeper than just "white girl bad, brown woman good" but the arguments are never that, they want to analyse Dany's actions under the world's largest microscope but never ask the hard questions about Mirri's actions.

They don't care about canonically brown/black characters that have been harmed by white characters in the text. They want to talk about how Tywin has Alayaya whipped and thrown out of the Red Keep or how Cersei has her abducted and beaten to punish Tyrion and how all Tyrion can think is "thank god it wasn't Shae."

How Oberyn purchases sex from the 16-year-old Alayaya. How George has written the Summer Islanders and how that in itself is racist. How Oberyn beat Obara's mother and took Obara from her. Illyrio Mopatis and his horde of enslaved people despite the fact that slavery is outlawed in Pentos.

The fandom would be better if more people bring their metas down to earth. Because we should not be having these conversations all these years later. The first book is older than me, you'd think the fandom would have gotten all this out of their system.

N.B. Until we as a fandom are ready and willing to have a serious conversation about how often a large majority of the fandom slips into fascist talking points to justify their hatred for the teenage girl, we will never have meaningful discourse about these characters or this universe.

empty idpol idiots 🤝🏾 fascists for some reason.

Ultimately I agree with your points about people not analyzing the text for what it presents and how it's written for the sake of taking superifical details and running with them for advocating for whatever identity they are advocating for. I don't think Mirri was necessarily using essentialist arguments for hurting Dany, though and I am confused as to the some of the writing here, and I don't feel I can make any deeper comments otherwise.

This is what Mirri-Dany's exchange (A Game of Thrones -- Daenerys IX):

Dany gestured at Ser Jorah and the others. "Leave us. I would speak with this maegi alone." Mormont and the Dothraki withdrew. "You knew," Dany said when they were gone. She ached, inside and out, but her fury gave her strength. "You knew what I was buying, and you knew the price, and yet you let me pay it." "It was wrong of them to burn my temple," the heavy, flat-nosed woman said placidly. "That angered the Great Shepherd." "This was no god's work," Dany said coldly. If I look back I am lost. "You cheated me. You murdered my child within me." "The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust." "I spoke for you," she said, anguished. "I saved you." "Saved me?" The Lhazareen woman spat. "Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved." "Your life." Mirri Maz Duur laughed cruelly. "Look to your khal and see what life is worth, when all the rest is gone." Dany called out for the men of her khas and bid them take Mirri Maz Duur and bind her hand and foot, but the maegi smiled at her as they carried her off, as if they shared a secret. A word, and Dany could have her head off … yet then what would she have? A head? If life was worthless, what was death?

A)

I could be reading this ask incorrectly. Did you mean "they don't want" when you said: "They don't care about canonically brown/black characters that have been harmed by white characters in the text. They want to talk about how Tywin has Alayaya whipped and thrown out of the Red Keep or how Cersei has her abducted and beaten to punish Tyrion and how all Tyrion can think is "thank god it wasn't Shae."? Because with you saying "They don't care about canonically...in the text", it seems like it, but Idk.

B)

You: "but they never mention that Mirri's argument for the forced abortion of Rhaego is racially essentialist in nature. "The brown baby boy will grow up to be a huge brown rapist" was Mirri's argument and this fandom eats it up uncritically because they hate the "white slave owner"."

Mirri is Lhazareene/Essosi herself, so she is technically a brown person. Her seeming "Dothraki vs Lhazareene"-ism is not white-on-brown crime or violence. Dothraki do perform extreme violence--sexual or otherwise--on other groups and obliterate their ways of life to absorb them as free labor into their own communities for power. So--we're just thinking from her perspective here, not fans--when she is saying that Dany's son will grow up into someone like Drogo and lead more destructive/raping campaigns for "culture" and power, In her perspective, I think it wasn't really about genetics so much as what social environment the boy would grow up in and him being more influenced by the men/bad actors around him than a single girl/woman who saved her. Bc Mirri didn't expect Dany to be able or want to migrate out of a typical Dothraki community.

She's looking at the prospect of a child growing up into the sort of man who would rape and pillage and more than that, she's looking for personal vengeance against Drogo through that child and Dany. Because she cannot get to Drogo through a more direct means, she uses and targets Dany.

This does not mean that Mirri was morally correct and justified, she still targets & harms a child bride/rape victim for her own aims. I'm saying the opposite.

You: "Their arguments for mad kween Dany are also essentialist in nature. You can never escape the cycle of generational trauma and violence. She will eventually become like her rapist father because his evil is literally written into her genes. No matter how far you come or how high you go, you will never escape your genetics."

Yeah, I agree with this--the arguments against Dany are essentialist.

However, whether or not Dany is or is not going to lose her mind (she isn't), the very argument for her becoming that from those essentialist arguments is not equal/same as the idea of Rhaego becoming the worst kind of leader bc there isn't even an "understandable" base reason for them to believe a girl who didn't even grown up as a "typical" Targ--she was born while her brother and mother were fleeing, never to return to Westeros-- would become the worst of them or become exactly like the image of a Targ that is in their heads. Whereas Rhaego would have grown up in a khalasar, it makes sense for someone to assume Rhaego would become that versus Dany becoming a version of an evil queen.

Still, once again, Mirri targeted a child bride/rape victim for personal revenge and refused to accept the fact that Dany's influence might be enough to raise a better child. After the girl actually risked herself and went out of her way to save Mirri.

young(?) Baratheon brothers

You really got down to the core of what bothers me with how the fandom discusses this topic. Instead of what's actually happening, which is this behaviour being normalized in their society it's treated like an individual's predatory behaviour/sexual perversion when the former is just so much more fucked up.

i hate “pedophilia” in almost all cases it’s used in but it’s especially frustrating to me here because the culturally normative eroticization of young women is not an individual pathology but a master key to westerosi society’s particular system of gendered subjugation. men are really into pubescent virgin girls because of a social system where the total control of women’s reproductive capacity and thus sexuality by men, fathers and then husbands, is the foundation of the ordering hierarchy of a society obsessed with passing on property and power through the male line. young girls are idealized erotic objects because they are “untouched” by other men and easier to achieve various forms of emotional mastery over to make easier the social mastery that is integral to uncontested patriarchal succession by blood; the social mastery makes emotional mastery inevitable; that social and emotional mastery means that young women are available to be used sexually by men without regards for their own wishes or agency or sexual fulfillment. its feminism 101 shit and frameworks like “pedophilia” discard it to make it about individual creeps. it’s frustrating in modern contexts too; the secret to csa is largely not the aberrant desire for children but that the domination of children by adults is still a structuring hierarchy of society and that this is processed erotically and the subordination of children is both used by people for unethical sexual satisfaction and that sexual violence is used to further subordinate children.

do you think people can still be fans of dany even if they want/expect her to take a villainous turn in the books?

well, i don't really think about that. not an arbiter of who does or doesn't get to be a fan of something. but yeah if someone is misinterpreting a story or a character, i'll side eye them, i guess. so, in that sense people who seriously think she's about to have a fascist downfall arc are misinterpreting the text. badly. i don't really come across people who genuinely enjoy this version of the character because ime a lot of "anti" posting is motivated by outrageous levels of hatred for a character and a desire to see them be beaten down by the text. but i presume when this exact scenario doesn't come to pass in the books, they'll understand they had a wrong read on her character ^⁠_⁠^