On A More Philosophical Note, In General It's Still Very Up In The Air What Conscious Experience "is";

On a more philosophical note, in general it's still very up in the air what conscious experience "is"; I know neuroscientists have proposed various theories of consciousness attributing it to various cognitive processes like multisensory integration, associative learning, working memory, etc. I haven't read all that much of the literature to know what the scientific consensus is on those theories (I don't think there isn't one) but my own personal (unsourced but I don't think very controversial) guess would be that it probably involves all of those things, and also probably that consciousness is a spectrum, not just a yes-or-no thing (cf. how it feels like to be fully awake vs. in the middle of falling asleep vs. dreaming). I don't think we'll ever really be able to prove or know for sure "what it feels like" to be a fruit fly or whatever, but strictly speaking this is technically the case even with other people, right— you can't do a brain scan to find a person's subjective experience, cuz it's well, subjective; yknow there's all the classical debates about philosophical zombies and the Chinese room thought experiment and so on that philosophers have talked about. Ultimately I think people intuitively ascribe consciousness to others because yknow they have a theory of mind, like I don't think I could be a solipsist even if I wanted to. When we anthropomorphize animals (or inanimate objects 😜) this is what we're doing; we view them and recognize aspects of ourselves, accurately or not, just cuz it comes more or less naturally. From a scientific perspective I think that's basically all we can really do, is to observe animals in a rigorous manner and see what they can do, and idk from the results we do have, at least to me it sure looks a lot like these animals have consciousness. They process complex sensory information in real-time, they form novel behaviors based on experiences in context, they display signs of emotion in a statistically quantifiable way, idk what do we call that if not subjective experience?

It's always so weird to come down from the biology heavens to see what the average person believes about animals, plants, ecosystems, just the world around them. I don't even mean things that one simply doesn't know because they've never been told or things that are confusing, I'm talking about people who genuinely do not see insects as animals. What are you saying. Every time I see a crawling or fluttering little guy I know that little guy has motivations and drive to fulfill those motivations. There are gears turning in their head! They are perceiving this world and they are drawing conclusions, they are conscious. And yet it's still a whole thing if various bugs of the world feel pain or if they are simply Instinct Machines that are Not Truly Aware of Anything At All????? Help!!!!!! How can you look at a little guy and think he is just the macroscopic animal version of a virus

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3 months ago

Oftentimes I see people just make shit up about bugs and other invertebrates. People will say stuff like "actually it's been scientifically proven that insects are physically incapable of cognition" with no source, and then you look it up and in fact there is tons and tons of literature reporting results on this exact thing. A while back after getting into an argument with people online about wasps, I decided to try compiling sources on invertebrate cognition out of spite and I had to take a break at some point because there is so much literature out there, it is actually overwhelming. Just with fruit flies alone, there's studies on how they form stable social networks and fight to establish hierarchies; how they make group decisions and act differently in crowds; how they pay attention to what other flies are doing and teach and learn from each other, even with other species. When subjected to pain out of their control, they can develop depression and respond to SSRIs to the point that they are literally used as animal models to study how to treat depression in humans. And that's just like, one animal!

Even with all the research there is though the truth is that we just haven't studied things like cognition, perception, behavior, sociality, etc. for the vast majority of invertebrates (i.e. the vast majority of animals). Most behavioral research (honestly, just bio research in general) is focused on vertebrates -- particularly mammals -- and the research that has been performed for invertebrates has still only been done for a small handful of species and lineages. Fruit flies are one of the single most studied organisms in the world (and there's still a lot we don't know about them). If idk, clams felt emotions, do you think you would be able to tell by just looking at them? (I have no idea if they do or not, I don't think anyone has studied this. we do know scallops can see.) But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and given the small glimpses of insight we have gotten into the vast world of unknowns, I think yeah it's pretty obvious that there is way more going on with a lot of animals than people think. Scala naturae my behated

It's always so weird to come down from the biology heavens to see what the average person believes about animals, plants, ecosystems, just the world around them. I don't even mean things that one simply doesn't know because they've never been told or things that are confusing, I'm talking about people who genuinely do not see insects as animals. What are you saying. Every time I see a crawling or fluttering little guy I know that little guy has motivations and drive to fulfill those motivations. There are gears turning in their head! They are perceiving this world and they are drawing conclusions, they are conscious. And yet it's still a whole thing if various bugs of the world feel pain or if they are simply Instinct Machines that are Not Truly Aware of Anything At All????? Help!!!!!! How can you look at a little guy and think he is just the macroscopic animal version of a virus


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7 months ago

During the storm, I've had a wasp sheltering on my window.

It's been two days now, and she's still there, so I gave her some honey

During The Storm, I've Had A Wasp Sheltering On My Window.
During The Storm, I've Had A Wasp Sheltering On My Window.

Lookit her! slurping away!

@onenicebugperday


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6 months ago

This was from a 2015 study by Fossette et al. which observed wild Rhizostoma octopus jellyfish, aka barrel or dustbin lid jellfish, and found that they actively orient themselves and swim against the current, contrary to the popular image of scyphozoan jellies as passive directionless drifters! Based on these observations, they (the scientists) ran computer simulations of virtual jellyfish moving through ocean currents demonstrating that this active swimming is probably really really important for allowing them (the jellyfish) to form and maintain large blooms while avoiding getting stranded alone or ashore

Thinking About That Time Scientists Put Tracking Collars On Jellyfish

thinking about that time scientists put tracking collars on jellyfish


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3 months ago

we all know people who go out of their way to be rude on bug appreciation posts are annoying as heck but sometimes they manage to read the room so absurdly poorly that it's just funny. You'll see a photo with 200 notes by someone called "flylover4ever" with the caption "look at this beautiful blowfly I found on my morning bug hunt 😊" and every comment note and tag is something like "look at that coloring!" "what beautiful eyes you have 😍" "KISSING HER ON THE TERGAL PLATE" and then there's just one rando person being like "EWWW kill it with fire 🤮". And it's like how did you even get here. are you lost, where did you even come from


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5 months ago

this isn't related to cephalopods at all, but re: bilateral symmetry, there's actually some fairly recent (like, last 15 years) evidence that cnidarians actually evolved from bilaterally symmetric ancestors! Contrary to popular belief, a lot of sea anemones and coral polyps, though externally radial, actually have a bilateral digestive system. This could be a case of convergent evolution, but what's really remarkable is that embryonically, cnidarians develop this bilateral symmetry the same way as bilaterians, *using the same regulatory genetic pathways*! The polyp body plan is considered to be the ancestral state for cnidarians, while the "simplified" swimming jellyfish body plan probably is a secondary development, as suggested by the cnidarian fossil record and evidence of loss of body patterning genes in jellyfish. Together, this suggests the really exciting hypothesis that bilateral symmetry is actually the original ancestral state for the common ancestor of cnidarians and bilaterians, and rather than bilaterians being the ones who made the innovation of bilateral symmetry from radial, cnidarians would be the group that altered their symmetry instead! Sources: 1, 2, 3

(Echinoderms like starfish also are secondarily radial; they have bilateral larvae who undergo a very weird metamorphosis into their pentaradial adult form. Search "brachiolaria", "pluteus larva", or "auricularia larva" for pics!)

It's also a common misconception that cnidarians don't have central nervous systems. They're often said to have merely diffuse "nerve nets," and they do, but they also have a condensed ring-shaped nerve that integrates signals from across the body, basically constituting a central nervous system in all respects besides not actually having a singular "brain". In particular, there's been a lot of research into the nervous systems of box jellyfish, which are probably the most specialized among cnidarians due to their unique possession of true image-forming eyes, which they use for navigating both long and short distances as well detecting prey. One study from just last year even found evidence that box jellies display associative learning! Sources: 1, 2, 3, 4

(I believe there's also been research into the learning capabilities of echinoderms but I'm not as familiar with the literature. I know starfish do actually have image-forming eyes on their arms, which at least one species uses to navigate, though they also definitely do a lot of smelling and stuff as well. Source: 1)

Imagine yourself submerged in the prehistoric ocean. There are no fish, instead the only life forms consist of feather-like sessile organisms that sit on the seabed, filtering the current. The early organisms that evolved out of this, such as Jellyfish and Starfish, had radial anatomy. Their body structure entails a central axis from which you can split everything else. These bodies are simple, not designed for active mobility, lacking a ‘forwards’ or ‘backwards’. They didn’t even have eyes, instead interacting with and responding to the world via photoreceptive cells. What emerged from this were two developments: the evolution of complex eyes and the emergence of bilateral anatomy in early vertebrates and arthropods. In contrast to radial anatomy, bilateral anatomy entails an organism that can be split down the middle with rough symmetry. This is to say that they are built for direction. A body that is built for mobility entails significantly more complex behaviour behind its operation. Behaviour, in this sense, also becomes significantly more directed. These creatures now living in the ocean or on the sea-floor now begin to directly interact with one another. The mechanisms facilitating this interaction become pretty apparent in the fossil record; eyes, claws and antennae. The evolutionary consequences of this are the emergence of a complex nervous system alongside the presence of predation and, as Godfrey-Smith puts it “[From this point on] The mind evolved in response to other minds”. 


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2 months ago

scientists: oh hey we found a new species of deep sea feather star, neat :)

the news: TERRIFYING and ALIEN creature with ONE THOUSAND ARMS discovered LURKING in the DEEP ABYSS of the sea

the public: omg im never swimming in the ocean again!!!

the animal:

a picture of a mop

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8 months ago

Penis worms is serious business! been no-joke half-considering making an account to make a PSA about it (and other invertebrate stuff) for a while ^^; I like priapulids a lot, they’re a really underrated (and understudied) phylum

Hi, created an account just to let you know the photo you posted earlier is not a priapulid but a spawning sea cucumber, likely genus Paracaudina. It was misidentified on iNaturalist and went viral before it got corrected, and now it comes up on the search results along with a bunch of other worms like spoon and peanut worms that people misidentify as priapulids. The only priapulid that there’s good photos of is P. caudatus which is very distinctive if you know what it looks like. Love the blog!

Ah!!! Thank you very much for letting me know friend (even going as far as to make an account about it), sucks that these incorrect images have spread so far x(


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6 months ago

SEA TOAD MY BELOVED

"anger fishes are nightmare fuel from the deep"

OK smarty pants then how do you explain THIS:

From this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tMQhyATzQA

A red anger fish with big round eyes and a cute pouting expression she is bright red and textured.

[Image Description: A red anger fish with big round eyes and a cute pouting expression she is bright red and textured.]


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phoronopsis - actinotroch
actinotroch

they/she ✩ I like space and invertebrates

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