The Only Thing Funnier Than His Walk Is The Music To It

If Lancelot ran away after killing Agravain then coming back to kill Gareth to rescue Gwen, there was not enough time for a manhunt between the escape and the rescue. She did go to war with Lancelot at Gawain's behest. She turned back to Britain because a rebel broke out, not that she publicly made peace with Lancelot. When exactly did they have time to talk and for Artoria to say he wasn't at fault? Either Lancelot was referring to another incidence, he confused it with another time when the murder of the Orkney siblings hadn't happened or Fate being ambiguously confusing on purpose.

If I can throw my hat into the ring regarding Morgan’s FGO design, because I definietely have… thoughts. I don’t hate her design, and I’m interested in her character, but visually she does fall a little flat for me. Slight spoiler warning for LB6. Long rambling post ahead.

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Listen to me LISTEN to me. Camelot was doomed from the start. It was doomed from the moment Artoria picked up the sword. It was doomed from the moment Uther decided to create the "perfect king." Because if there is such a thing as a perfect ruler it cannot be a human being, and forcing a person into that mold can only have disastrous consequences.

It's not a matter of "one single event kickstarted the fall of Camelot," it's a matter of "Artoria's entire life lead to her acting like this. There is no way she could have made any other choice based on what she has experienced until now. And I say Artoria but this also applies to Mordred, to Lancelot, even to Morgan."

Of course Tristan would part with angry words. He was hurt, and the King was here for him to lash out. Of course Lancelot would reach out to Guinevere; he loved the king, wanted to help the king, grew up valuing the individual over the country, he could not foresee his affections growing. Of course Aggravain would out the affair; his loyalty to the king is absolute, and he found that to be betrayal. Of course Artoria would forgive him, of course Artoria would reject Mordred, she knows no other way to be, knows not how to hold personal grudges or hold people close to her. Of course Mordred would respond to this with violence, they know no other way to be. And before all of that, of course Morgan would plot Camelot's downfall, she's a witch in a world being drained of its mystery she's pissed that she's getting evicted because the world decided it belonged to humans from now on.

They all had other options, yes. But with their life, the one they would pick was a given. Of course, hindsight is 10/10, but can you truly say you would have known better in their place?

Pokémon Team Rascal Line Stickers ♡

The world deciding who’s gonna fuck up Camelot this time

Hige wo Soru. Soshite Joshikousei wo Hirou. (Higehiro: After Being Rejected, I Shaved and Took in a High School Runaway) - Sayu Ogiwara Dakimakura Covers (School Uniform ver. and Maid Swimsuit ver.) by Miyuki. Release: February 2024

BEHOLD. Someone said, probably more than a year ago, that I should try my hand at making a relationship chart for our favorite Arthuriana characters in Fate. I didn't feel like doing it then, but I felt like doing it now, and then while doing it remembered why I didn't feel like doing it then.

This is literally just the 'Saber' part.

This is a (somewhat) simplified version of the Saber part. I tried formatting this so many ways and this was the one that made me want to scream the least.

NOTES:

Explaining why 'Pendragon' is in quotes: 'Pendragon' was more of a title than an actual surname, literally meaning 'Head Dragon' in Welsh, and was mostly an authoritative title used in regards to Uther. Over time, people added the title to Arthur's name as a pseudo-surname as well, before it became treated as an actual surname for the figure. However, this does mean that Mordred most likely wouldn't be 'Mordred Pendragon' unless he acquired the same societal status as Uther and Arthur via becoming king. Still, Fate is one of the many works that treats 'Pendragon' as a true surname rather than a title.

Similarly to 'Pendragon', 'Vortigern' may also be a title that became a name later on, with historians arguing that it may have meant something like 'Supreme Lord'. It wasn't until later interpretations that 'Vortigern' went from a nebulous, violent ruler of the Britons to Arthur's uncle and Uther's brother.

In terms of legends, Morgan is often the step-daughter of Uther after his marriage of Igraine. In Fate, Morgan is Uther's biological daughter and was simply falsely presented as Uther's step-daughter. This is probably a result of fusing Morgan with Uther's daughter Morgause.

Arthur and Morgan have two obscure siblings that will probably never be relevant: Queen Elaine of Garlot, and Madoc.

Gawain, Gareth, Gaheris, and Agravain all had wives. Gareth was married to Lady Lyonesse, Gaheris was married to Lady Lynette (the sister to Lady Lyonesse), Agravain was married to Lady Laurel (Lyonesse and Lynette's niece), and Gawain was… complicated.

See, Gawain had a lot of romances going on. A decent amount of stories had him start single, fall in love, ride off into the sunset… and then come the next tale he'd be single again, rinse and repeat. I'm guessing Ragnell is his canonical spouse since that's the most well-known story and the one with a solid romantic moral in it, but a name has not been dropped and Fate Gawain seems to have no qualms about being 'single again' so honestly we may never know. Which is honestly fitting characterization if you take his 'episodic romances' literally.

I almost forgot Ywain was canonized via Summer Ruler Artoria. He's also here.

Gray and Add are representing Sir Kay because he doesn't have any clear artwork yet.

Both thoughts on Morgan please ! :D

Morgan in folklore is a fascinating character. Mostly because no matter what, her first presence as "Morgan the Healer" never seems to go away. She always is, in the end, the one who takes Arthur to Avalon, the reason that maybe he'll be able to come back, while also being one of the key factors that leads to the end of Camelot. no matter how much people try, she's outside of being defined completely. What's more, she's got an incredibly personal and touching motive when you look at it. This isn't just some story about power and how far someone is willing to go to take it, it's about love, and how a horrific act in the past can have echoes that affect the innocent. This isn't to say I like her as a 'hero' but I like her as character.

So, to me Fate!Morgan feels a little like wasted potential. Her motives are a little clearer with new stuff, but honestly pretty much everything I said earlier still stands about why I hate her as Uther's 'true and recognized daughter' even if apparently she's now some fae that spawned into existence too. Her motive of 'you took away my destiny', sort of erases her nuance as a character, and it more just seems like she's a bad person from the start who doesn't accept that she's a bad person. What's more, Nasu tends to use her to project things like the Lady of the Lake's bad behavior on. And, more importantly, it erases Uther's being a creep. Like, I like that we've got a face and more to her, but I guess I feel that if we're going to overcomplicate the reason Artoria became king as having to do with Vortigern and the White Dragon and a plot between Uther and Merlin to save the country, we can have Morgan have a little more complicated motives. In the LB, I'm...pretty sure we're going to get some Midsummer Night's Dream payoff with her though.

You know whole Morgan having three different personalities probably worked a bit bitter if it was more like Morgan the witch, Vivian, and Morgan the sister to Artoria were originally one person but something happened to her to split into three people that now lead different lives that played a hand in fate’s arthurian mythos

Sorry, but I seriously don’t agree. If you're just going to split them into three different people, keep them as three separate people in the first place. The issue of 'Morgan being Vivian' wasn't 'Morgan and Vivian can't exist in separate places and live different lives', it's that:

'Morgan being Vivian, combined with the condensed timespan of Fate's Arthurian mythos, opens up more questions than answers due to the established ages of the characters'

I was fine with Morgan having Vivian's authority, because characters borrow the 'authority' of some other character every other moment. But having Morgan actually be Vivian, therefore being Lancelot's adoptive mother, and ALSO being arbitrarily written to be Artoria's FULL sister rather than a partial sibling from an earlier relationship- it just makes things messy for no good reason.

And Morgan COULD have been 'The Lady of the Lake'. That's not a new concept- but it was a concept that worked when Morgan was... you know, allowed to be considerably older than Arthur in order for that to feasibly work. Especially considering all the pre-Arthur stuff that generally happened regarding Merlin, Vortigern, Uther, etc.

The Arthurian mythos, despite the name, didn't just... start with King Arthur. It's a story that requires setup, and Nasu wrote it so that the 'setup' is just a murky pit that requires logical jumps and purely ignoring other things in order to make it work. 

Nasu wants to have his cake and eat it to with every Arthurian character being both 'cool and young' and also having lived the full lives that encapsulated their stories, and it just makes things into a muddy mess once you look past the glamour of 'this sounds cool'. He wants to have the moral ambiguity of Morgan le Fay, but he didn’t give himself a proper setting to do so.

thanks for the tl;dr. While I don't agree with all your opinions, I get where you're coming from. Highkey, if you don't mind, what do think of Urobuchi as a writer? I frankly can't stand the man's writings, not only in regards to his "DeCoNsTrUcTiOn" of the magical girl genre with Madoka, but also Fate/Zero and his work on Kamen Rider Gaim.

It's......really hard for me to not blame Urobutcher himself for how Madoka basically killed the entire magical girl genre by causing it to be flooded with edgy tryhard tortureporn.

Like from an objective and analytical standpoint, Madoka is an incredible and meticulously crafted story. ...but subjectively, i fucking hate it, and then on top of that also hate it for what it (again, indirectly) did the genre and really just mainstreem anime in general to a certain, albeit obviously much lesser, degree. I feel like that's an entirely different discussion though, and really it just boils down to a case of "it's good" and "I don't like it" are not mutually exclusive. That's my read anyways.

Fate/Zero i love when watched bit by bit but dont like as a coherent story for much the same subjective reasons I'm personally not a fan of Madoka. For all my negativity I don't actually like nihilistic or cruel stories. Fate/Zero is actually what made me realize that, being the first time I had to as aforementioned go "it's good....but I don't like it." I love pretty much everything that doesn't involve Kerry, which is an issue when the whole story revolves around Kerry.

It's by no means without some serious issues though. Urobutcher wrote Artoria as a completely different character and it causes some serious inconsistencies that had harmful long-term repercussions, the banquet scene is a great setup that as I've discussed before falls completely flat in retrospect because nothing talked about was delivered on, and characters like Abs Hassan and Kariya got beyond wasted, just to name some of my issues with Zero.

But unlike with a LOT of Nasu's writing, actually just FGO writing in general frankly, those flaws don't contradict the ethos of the story. They come across less as contradictions that the writer couldnt be asked to rectify, as much as they do human error and an inability to make everything perfectly coherent and loop back around to the an overarching point. None of the things i've mentioned really detract from the message Fate Zero wants to give. They detract from the quality and consistency of the storytelling, absolutely, but not from the intended purpose of that storytelling. That sort of thing is HUGELY different than something like FGO just making up alternate history to suit it's narrative despite said narrative supposedly being about unity through our shared real world history.

I suppose what it really comes down to is that I don't feel malice or narrow mindedness from Urobutcher's works the way I do from Nasu. Kirei is the best example of this - i'd go so far as to argue Kirei's character didn't have ANY of the depth people now attribute to it before Urobutcher got involved. That's not even a dig at Nasu, that's just how much Urobutcher clearly GETS the kind of character Kirei is [now] meant to be. Same goes for Gilles and Kerry, those are characters that were perfect for someone like Urobutcher to execute (in multiple senses).

Again, Urobutcher is not a flawless writer by any stretch, no one is, and his style is by no means for everyone, because no style SHOULD be universally appealing...but I feel like he very much gives a shit. I feel like whether its all the way back with Fate Zero or his relatively more recent return for Lostbelt 3, Urobutcher gave a shit and did everything with as much purpose as he could. On that ground alone, I'm willing to be a lot more sympathetic to the parts of his writing i don't like, since I can at least convince myself those things (be it intentional choices or simple mistakes) were done in good faith.