New Trek Writers: We're Bringing Back The Torment Nexus From The Fan Favorite Classic Trek Episode "Don't

Does anyone ever wonder if, after hearing Julian go on about tennis and medicine, Jadzia go on about Klingon culture and her past lives, Sisko talking about baseball and cooking, Miles talking about engineering and bizarre selections of history, Quark and his obsessive recitation of the Rules of Acquisition, and Garak constantly talking about fabrics and gardens...

Kira turns to Odo and says: Fuck, this station has a worse infestation than Voles; we're surrounded by nerds!

1x17 - Dramatis Personae

it is so important to me that wei wuxian chooses to let go of his resentments. he wasn't just "born with a smiling face", he can't just forgive and forget and let go just like that, with a snap of his fingers; it isn't some trait of his character that he was just born with and that's it

he always, always chooses to do it. he spends days and nights processing the decisions that he made, he even tries to convince himself: that it was okay, anyway; that it was the most obvious thing to happen; and still, he decides to go forward and not look back — to remember, but not to live in regrets and resentment forever

"Jiang Cheng rebuild his whole clan from the ashes!"

And where do you think Wei Wuxian was? Cheered him on from the sidelines? Drank his days away with ghost women?

The Lotus Pier was never burned (in the novel) – what use is a burned Supervision Office to the Wen? Besides those first three months without Wei Wuxian, he didn't rebuild anything alone. After, it's because of Wei Wuxian that the Jiang Clan continued to exist as a Great Clan and recruited plenty of disciples.

Ah im bored..

so I'm gonna just gonna throw these questions out in the open to whoever would like to answer. Feel free to answer whichever one's you like!

1) what are your opinions on the jiang family?

2) what is your favourite non-Canon ship?

3) do you have any controversial mdzs opinions?

4) which mdzs character do you believe deserved more screen time/expansion on?

5) Any headcanons you particularly enjoy?

That's all I can come up with :)

God you worded my thoughts beautifully, 100% agreed.

Hii! I hope you are having a good day! I have a question concerning Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji’s righteousness. Also I think this might also be a hot take? Many people have said that Wangxian are the only morally upright people in the novel, but in Lan Wangji’s case that's only when he matured yes?

I'm not trying to say Lan Wangji is not righteous, he is! He is better than most of the cultivators in the gentry, that's how he got his title after all. I'm just confused because I have seen people claiming that he is just as good as Wei Wuxian (before Wei Wuxian's death).

If Lan Wangji really was as good as Wei Wuxian that time. Why didn't he put the same effort in helping the Wen remnants the same way Wei Wuxian did? Why didn't he go and confirm whether or not the Wen remnants really were being unjustly abused?

Wei Wuxian gave up his reputation, his clan, his comfort, and nearly everything to save the Wen remnants. And I'm sorry to say this (I'm not trying to hate, I'm just stating facts), Lan Wangji didn't.

My problem isn't with Lan Wangji (I adore him). My problem is people saying to say that Lan Wangji was as righteous as Wei Wuxian pre-Wei Wuxian death. Yes, Lan Wangji did try to help Wei Wuxian (defending Wei Wuxian several times in the cultivation meetings, and supporting Mianmian, helping Wen Ning when he was just awakened). But my problem is when people equate those actions to what Wei Wuxian did with the Wen remnants. Lan Wangji at that time did not put in the same effort to help the Wen remnants just as Wei Wuxian did. That's what I'm trying to say. Lan Wangji pre-Wei Wuxian was still maturing, he has some hesitationto help the Wen remnants back then, he was not as good as Wei Wuxian back then. BUT Lan Wangji IS as good as Wei Wuxian post-Wei Wuxian death. He learned from his mistakes, and acted with more conviction to do the right thing.

Also another question, what made Lan Wangji hesitate to help Wei Wuxian all that much in the past (Wen remnants case)? Was it because of his family and clan? Or was it some other factor? Was he hindered in some way?

What do you think about this?

Hi anon, I’m not really recovered enough to do meta, but you caught me in a good mood, so I’ll give you some answers anyway.

First off I think that take that literally only Wangxian are morally upright is a liiiiittle reductionist, because that erases for example Mianmian and the juniors and Wen Qing and Wen Ning and a-Qing and Xiao Xingchen, all of whom are people who we know to have strong morals and the fortitude to do the right thing in the face of loud opposition and societal disapproval. But also I think that while Lan Wangji’s morality is much more apparent in the present, it is consistently strong throughout the entire novel. He just doesn’t shout about it.

First off, given the Wen Remnants claim, Wei Wuxian leaves right from the banquet to go chase them down, which is something he can do without incurring greater societal rancor because he was not a guest at the banquet. Lan Wangji is a guest and both host and guests do have rules and expectations to follow that would make it much more difficult for him to chase after Wei Wuxian without bringing down ire upon the Lan too. Remember, at this time in the book, the Lan Clan is still rebuilding their home that was burnt down with the help of the Jin, they are not quite as free to do as they please as the Jiang are. By the time he would have been able to get there, Wei Wuxian would have already spirited away the Wen from Qiongqi Path, meaning there’d be nothing for him to see. In addition it’s not as if he’s doing nothing at the banquet, he speaks in defense of Wei Wuxian both against the Jin and his own family, which is not doing nothing by any means. He’s fighting on different battlegrounds because he and Wei Wuxian are in different positions.

As for your latter questions, I wonder if you’ve ever heard of the concept attacking on two fronts? Yes, Wei Wuxian sacrificed everything to protect the Wen and give them time, but for all of that sacrifice, it’s doing nothing to stop the roar of the mob. He is an imposing figure to be sure, but he is one man and they are many. In addition, he is mostly staying in one place and working on keeping them alive, meaning that while the Wen are safe, everyone else who is not a cultivator is still having to deal with the hypocrisy of the cultivation world alone, which is where Lan Wangji, who appears wherever chaos is and helps people with their problems however small they seem. In addition to that, he is also continually speaking out at meetings on Wei Wuxian and the Wens’ behalf, we see him do this at the same meeting as Mianmian leaving her clan and we know he spoke up other times from when he and Wen Ning chat on the boat. Just because he wasn’t there in the burial mounds doesn’t mean he wasn’t doing anything and his morality was more questionable, it means that he was fighting those battles on other fronts - fronts where Wei Wuxian could not go, where Lan Wangji does have more power because he is a clan heir, because he is Hanguang-jun, because he is someone noble and strong willed enough to stand up to the bloodthirsty mob again and again and keep shouting back.

Also anon, the reason why Lan Wangji hesitated to “help” Wei Wuxian that much in the past (which he doesn’t, he gets rebuffed by Wei Wuxian half the times when he tries to help and successfully gets to help the other times) comes mostly down to Phoenix Mountain, where he made a significant, grievous error and crossed lines he should not have crossed with Wei Wuxian and that is what shakes up his confidence in helping Wei Wuxian for a while. He’s ashamed of himself for acting the way he did and wronging Wei Wuxian in his actions and it is that dissonance between his wants to be moral and his wants with Wei Wuxian that rattle and force him to spend time rectifying things. He keeps his distance and is cautious and careful with Wei Wuxian because the last time he did what he wanted heedless of what Wei Wuxian wanted, he ended up pinning him to a tree while blindfolded and forcing a kiss on him. That isn’t something that he is taking lightly, and it is clear that it has shaken him to the core.

Really, what I would argue that the biggest difference in Lan Wangji pre and post thirteen years is where he’s just done with trying to win by the rules the cultivation world sets. He’s seen what happens when you follow those rules, how even when you stand up to them in the ways they claim to respect that their words mean nothing, and he won’t give them the benefit of the doubt any longer. Which is something that can only come with maturity and is also something that Wei Wuxian learned in that same time span, Wei Wuxian never turned the defenses he’d made for the Burial Mounds so that they would respond to Jiang Cheng, and Jiang Cheng brought a siege on him.

The answer I have for you anon, is that they both have been equally moral in their youths and more so as adults because they are both learning and growing and developing that core within them as they grow. Be careful not to conflate sacrifice with morality, while it can indeed be a sign of great morals, it is not the only way such morals can be shown, and to suggest that Lan Wangji’s actions - helping others who still need his aid when the Wen are being taken care of by Wei Wuxian, speaking out on their defense, rescuing Wei Wuxian and taking him back to the burial mounds after the events of nightless city, and then surviving and living to save Wen Yuan and to raise him and other children so that they will not make the mistakes their elders did - are less moral because he gave up less than his life to do so is something that I find distasteful indeed.

*wwx freshly new to the academy has only ever met other betazoids and humans*

Wwx: I thought you vulcans were supposed to be emotionless or something!

Lwj: Untrue... *rants about vulcan history*

Wwx: oh yeah. I want him.

(I feel like despite wwx constantly promising he wouldn't read lwjs thoughts without his permission lwj is still REALLY paranoid about it)

Wwx: hmm I wonder what dark secret he must be hiding....

Lwj: Biggest crush in history would put his ancestors to shame

Ik that human wwx X vulcan lwj is the expectation in all star trek X mdzs crossovers but. But! Hear me out, Betazoid wwx X vulcan lwj .

Telepathic besties to Telepathic lovers.

Everything I learn about s6 of mlb, Makes it sound like the season is just Adrien and Mari having one long mental breakdown.

MORE WANGXIAN BABIES AGHHHH

Ohh yess I 100% agree with you, it is also quite baffling for to me (as someone whos been marinating in different danmei fandoms for quite a while) that mdzs is the novel that ended up with the fandom that refuses to admit antagonistic characters faults; especially since the novel basically spells it out for you multiple time; and fans always chalk up this stuff as like "Oh it's just how I interpreted the novel" and it's like their is nothing wrong with differently assessing smth; but when it comes to stuff that is spelled OUT for you you really have to to start thinking "am I going about this wrong?"

And yk the worst part? It's always the scenes that are SPECIFICALLY showing you the red flags that they use as evidence, Oh Jc kidnapping a wwx (who he already had enough evidence to fall under the impression that it was NOT wwx?) "That's because he missed his dear brother!" Oh... *insert Literally anything jgy did within the novel* "Ugh! He came from a bad background.... *and than they usually continue to degrade wwx I'm favor of jgy*

And I've said this before, (I am unsure if you've watched the cql yet) But the reason for such major misinterpretation could also majorly do with the cql, Since in the cql a lot of the blame gets directly put onto the Jins, And tbh... the cql kinda villianifies wwx a bit, and weirdly enough it clashes with some of the novel themes of having the wens (specifically wn&wq) innocent as they turn them into spies for wrh (Which to be fair, they use the excuse that wrh is forcing them into the role, but it still feels icky) and let's not forget the softening of jcs general character (Tho I could argue he's even worse in the cql because of the whole Wq/Jc plotline they tried to force) I am unsure if some fans have just completely confused the untamed canon with the mdzs Canon, or if its just them being willingly blind (actually i feel like thats probably also a part of it, literally had someone tell me "Jc turned Jl into a spoiled and rotten person! Out of love!" The other day , but honestly I've read a majority of fics where the jins are the "Complete bad guys" so I honestly do believe the untamed may have had a hand in it.

Though yes I agree with everything you've said so far, it's super infuriating for me and I'm not even usually a person that gets angry or upset over fanon misinterpretation, but the mdzs fandom just takes it to another level.

the myth of helplessness and the “hands-tied” rhetoric for authority figures in mdzs

i’m pretty sure every one of us has seen this notion echoed around for atleast one of the clan/sect leaders when it came to their compliance and/or active participation in the wen remnants’ genocide as well as their prior lack of help/refuge for the wen remnants once wei wuxian had rescued them. while this goes beyond just the way the cultivation world’s leaders handled the aftermath of the sunshot campaign (namely, their lackadaisical approach to helping civilians, exploiting those weaker than them, etc.), i’ll start with the genocide because that’s the crux of it all. that’s the nail in the coffin, that’s the biggest proof of why i feel so fucking angry whenever i see this sentiment of excusing/justifying/or even explaining why the sect leaders did what they did.

and like most skewed interpretations of mdzs (and i don’t mean this in a haughty superior way of only MY way of reading the text being THE right way but i feel like this is something we all have noticed after traversing the fandom waters for a while), this too begins with jiang cheng.

now, let me clear: jiang cheng, in full sobriety and clarity of thought, led the siege of the burial mounds to kill a group of innocent people, which included elderly women and men and a child. you would think this should be obvious but i’ll retierate: NOTHING justifies this, nothing excuses this. the same applies to every single sect leader and sect affiliated member who went for the siege that day and participated in the killings, whether directly or indirectly. this isn’t a nuanced situation and i personally feel that a discussion that begins with the premise of muddying the culpability of the people involved in the genocide shouldn’t even be entertained because the reasons do not matter. they just don’t. it doesn’t matter that nie mingjue’s personal philosophy stemming from his upbringing and loss gave him a narrowminded view of the “wen-dogs”. it doesn’t matter that jiang cheng was sunken in grief and rage after losing his sister. it doesn’t matter that the lans were convinced of wei wuxian’s deviousness and found it paramount to put an end to him and his affialites. it doesn’t matter that some were operating on half the information because when you march into the temporary residence of your supposed foes and kill them all in cold-blood despite them being unarmed and untrained—the weight of ensuring that your violence has a meaning, a justification is on YOU! if you’re committing this act, you have to make sure you aren’t being led blindly by manipulating rumors and ideals.

even before the genocide, before the nightless city massacre, before the qiongqi path ambush—the way i’ve seen handwaving of jiang cheng’s mindset regarding the wens is a little baffling. “he had the burden of being a sect leader” “he had to protect his clan, his hands were tied!” jiang cheng wielding power and authority are often repackaged as baggage that his poor self is so tragically saddled with. it genuinely puzzles the shit out of me. have we all forgotten about “with great power comes great responsibility”?? jiang cheng’s responsibility as a cultivation sect leader goes beyond just the immediate thought about his sect and towards the cultivation world as a whole and how injustice was taking place by a fellow prominent clan. we know this is extremely important because the whole reason the sunshot campaign happened and why it came down to a war was because of prior negligence by the clans towards the congregation of power by the wens. to recognise the same methods now being employed by the jins was, infact, part of jiang cheng’s responsibility. just saving your own neck doesn’t work, when the larger picture is considered. besides, giving the wens the backing of the jiang clan would NOT have brought down instant doom upon the jiangs. that was the whole point. that was why jin guangshan felt it necessary to put ideas into his head and lead him to a path of hostility towards wei wuxian (which is still a choice jiang cheng made, mind).

also, while we’re at it, you’re telling me that the jiang clan rebuilt in part due to wei wuxian’s insane gravitational pull towards aspiring cultivators, would NOT have stood behind wei wuxian if jiang cheng had only tried? hell, i would go far as to say that some jiang disciples would have WANTED to join wei wuxian’s side. there was risk. there would be trouble. but that doesn’t mean jiang cheng had no option. the path of least resistance leads the crooked men, does it not? besides, being a leader is not about tucking tail and keeping your head down. it’s about making the difficult choices and yes, for jc, in this scenario, refusing to help the wens and wei wuxian was the easy choice.

also this whole myth about the sect leaders not being able to do anything because their clans would become targets is sort of antithetical to the whole premise of them being sect leaders in the first place. they’re the only ones who can do something with comparatively less risk to their person and those they’re “protecting” because they have the power of organisation. if the holders of authority cannot make decisive lines in the sand and push for change and resist, who can? the disciples or civilians would have an easier time opposing the clans individually or in groups, you think? they would have less to lose? (we already have an example in the form of mianmian; the waves had to be made from the top in this time-sensitive situation).

these fanon tropes originate from somewhere i know. it’s interesting to think of how these authority figures perceive their power as burdens, how the prince doesn’t want to become king but is forced into the role, how inheritances, even the ones that favour you, can feel like shackles around your neck.

but this kind of sympathetic view of the antagonists and the wrong-doers in mdzs leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because time and again, we have been shown how these sect leaders are blissfully happy to reap the fruits of their inherited power and generational wealth and are the ones most protected by the system. jiang cheng was perfectly fine being the sect leader by default and his grievance was moreso that wei wuxian wasn’t around to be his subordinate. the less that is said about jin guangshan the better. even lan xichen’s troubles didn’t come from him holding power but from his prolonged semi-wilful ignorance regarding jin guangyao. nie mingjue, while alive, used his influence to make his voice heard and condemned the wens because that was his unshakeable opinion on the matter.

now, this isn’t to say all the sect leaders were the same brand of callous and incompetent. yes, they had their problems. yes, their positions didn’t automatically make them immune to harm. but they were not the poor little burdened leaders with “pragmatic” point of views, trying to keep their boats afloat.

the ones with their hands tied were these: the lower classes in the pyramid. the ones who relied on the clans for shelter and food. the civilians whose requests for help were denied by the cultivation sects. the wen remnants who couldn’t do anything to save themselves. wen qing and wen ning. wei wuxian, whose every avenue of help was closed. mianmian. and even, imo, lan wangji.

there’s another similar notion towards wei wuxian that because he was a subordinate and because he has lesser social standing, he had more “freedom”. what ass-backwards logic is this, to be honest? when has having lesser social status, political power and monetary resources given a person more freedom? more freedom would mean that wei wuxian could do anything he wanted and go unquestioned. more freedom would mean that he would be able to practice the ghostly path without every second person accusing him of demonic activities. you know who had more freedom? the nie sect! their resentful energy dabbling went unquestioned because they had more freedom, they were protected by the reputation and might of their clan. nie mingjue’s hypocritical stance went unquestioned because he had freedom, precisely because he had more power. wei wuxian having a big personality, being flirtatious and not being a picture-perfect version of properness (he had good manners regardless) is not having more freedom. if he had that personality and no one accused him of being arrogant and if it wasn’t used against him as means to sully his reputation, then yes, that would be true freedom. this last part is probably redundant but hope the point of it was relayed. just because wei wuxian’s able to authentically be himself despite the backlash he receives for it does not make his social standing somehow a more advantageous position to be in compared to the literal leaders of the cultivation world.

in conclusion, the sect leaders did not have their hands tied by some inherent circumstance, their thrones of power were not ill-begotten curses they were trying to escape from but all the tying was done by them and their ropes which they gleefully tied around the necks of the wens to silence them forever. and if that sentence makes you uncomfortable, great. because that’s the reality of what these people did.