🥴This Edit Looks Sooooo Gooooooood!!!!!!!!!!

Of course Jimin's water tastes better😏😏😏😏😏

Who else felt second-hand embarrassment while watching that legendary vlive? It was so awkward🤭🤭🤭🤭

I noticed in your post answering about how JK treats his hyungs differently, you brought up Jin a lot. And its true with all his hyungs, when he gets upset with them, he gets withdrawn and a little sullen, but let's it go. Unless its truly a big deal, then I think all of BTS is really good about making sure issues get addressed and people feel respected, regardless of age. But with Jimin, JK is much more comfortable airing out his issues or hurts with him and not just "letting it go because they are older".

For example of a way he handles it differently, the infamous new jersey vlive where everyone felt like we were forever third wheels. JK started the live after Jin and JM ended theirs without letting him join. Eventually he pans the camera over to JM sitting on his bed, looking every bit the sullen puppy, "everyone, jungkookie scolded me" and he proceeded to basically act very apologetic. My personal opinion is that Jimin and Jungkook are boyfriends. I know we have no proof, but thats what I see. And in that vlive, I see a boyfriend looking sorry and trying to make amends for hurting his boyfriend's feelings by joking around too much. I see Jungkook basking in those apologies and making JM work for it a little bit and thoroughly enjoying his presence. I also see Jimin getting irritated with everyone else's presence in the room when TaeJin show up, like he was really just wanting to turn the live off, kick everyone out and have time alone with JK. lol

You also see in direct comparison when Jin shows up, how drastically different that goes. Jin jokingly says sorry. Kookie immediately moves on and lets it go. A fairly typical but close knit hyung/dongseang relationship. There is no scolding, there is no feelings of "I'm sorry babe, really. It won't happen again". There is no feeling of awkwardness from the viewers who get the vibe they are intruding in a moment where 2 people are making up or just finished making up and the air is all intimate. Its a direct contrast. He cared more about Jimin shutting him out of the live because Jimin is supposed to be his partner, his equal. He didn't as much about Jin because Jin is just his hyung, who he loves and cares for, yes. But the difference is striking. And we see it all the time.

Ending with the disclaimer that obviously we don't know what their actual relationship status IS, so who knows. These are all just my personal opinions based off things I see. Thanks for running your blog! Love seeing your posts. Hopefully all my rambling made some sense lol

Hi @stormblessed95 ! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with such clarity.

As I say all the time, this blog is about what we can see on screen. And what you discuss is a great analysis of the on-screen behaviours in the New Jersey vlive.

JK and JM had a dynamic that was the same or similar to a boyfriend in the doghouse while their partner eats up the apology (and indeed still roasts him for it live in front of millions...). If that is what you saw or felt about this live stream, you are not wrong for that. That is what it looks like. Does that mean it is that? No, or course not. We're not privy to that information. But, anything we see in the video is fair game for discussion.

And that includes contrasting behaviours, which many are scared to do. I see no reason to shy away from comparing and contrasting dynamics. If they didn't want us to discuss the vlive, it would be deleted or never streamed in the first place.

There is a huge difference in JK's expectation of consideration when it comes to Jimin versus Jin. He does not place the same expectations on Jin that he does on JM. That is plain as day in this vlive; it's not something you can refute imo. Jin is not chastised, and he's forgiven immediately. We don't know what JK's thinking, but we can infer that because JM is not forgiven easily, that JK expects his feelings to be considered and prioritized by JM in a way he doesn't expect from Jin. And that in itself is what makes this form of media so entertaining and interesting. It's a spontaneously opened window into their relationship dynamics--a window that is opened very purposefully. Indeed, I think this vlive does a good job of showing off the dynamics between all four present.

I wonder if people will study live streams one day like they do other media. Maybe they already are.

Namjoon in the middle. President of the Third Wheel nation.

What Jikook moment do others see as a big moment and you think is small/not that big and what moment do you think others see as small/not big enough but you think is actually a really big moment?

Sorry anon for taking a bit to answer this. I wrote a whole post here and everything was deleted with one key stroke. The level of frustrations...ugh.

So, I'm starting again, probably the writing will not be as good, as my masterpiece was just deleted by my own hands (wait a second, I'm crying here...).

Big moments talked about a lot I think aren't as big and moments that aren't talked about enough, my take here:

When I talk about a big moment, for me it's looking for a moment that screams out either non platonic attraction, one sided or mutual, or behavioural signs they are in love or a couple.

I'll start with a big moment, huge moment in the fandom, that I take with a grain of salt, and that's the rainbow unicorn photo shoot.

This moment is considered huge because of the prop used and the poses and obvious chemistry between those two.

The reason I take this one with a grain of salt is mainly because this is a photo shoot. With props, outfits & poses. We don't know just how much of artistic freedom they had. Who chose that specific prop and why, who chose the poses.

Now, I know this unicorn was used in a pride exhibition or march in SK prior to the shoot, but we have no idea why it was chosen for the shoot and if it was chosen specifically for those two for a reason. Many assumptions have been made, wrongfully in my opinion.

Yes, the chemistry between them is palpable, no doubt, but were these directed poses or something they came up with? Again, we don't know.

I don't say I don't love this moment/s. But is it something that I can add as a big moment, something that means they are together? For me the answer is not enough.

Now, as for moments I think deserve more attention, moments I think are big but not talked about enough in the fandom.

I am really finding it hard to limit myself here to one moment here. I have come down to three moments, two that in my opinion are not talked about enough because they are less about the chemistry or love and more about a 'love quarrel' moment, a part of couple behaviour people look for less. The third moment is mentioned here and there, but not enough, and also not a lovey dovey moment, but more a reaction and other members behaviour around the two of them moment.

I'm bad, I know I'm bad, I just can't choose, so I will talk, not too much, I promise, about all three:

I will start with a moment that screamed 'lovers quarrel' to me the second I saw it. I'm talking about the KBS song festival 29 Dec 2016. That was the day JM performed his dance with Taemin & JK performed 'I'm a flying butterfly' with the 97 liners. Both didn't seem to be in a bad mood during the event (what footage I managed to find of them). But then, at the end of the event we have a worried Hobi, checking up on JM, a JM visibly pissed at JK and a blank faced JK that won't even look JM in the eyes.

You could cut the tension there with a knife. When you look at JK's face here it reminds me a bit of his facial expression when JM approached him during the Manila concert (what is known as 'The Manila fight'). Both are clearly not happy.

Another 'lovers quarrel' moment not noticed or spoken about too much is what I like to refer to as 'The dream catcher necklace saga', from 2017 summer package.

The boys were given a budget each to purchase themselves a gift.  They are taken together to a gift shop, where they check the merchandise out and each buy themselves a little souvenir.  When they all sit down to show each other their gifts, that’s when this moment happens.

JK takes out his gift. I once again want to emphasize, this is a gift he bought with his budget for himself.  He explains it’s a dream catcher and says he will put it in his room.

JM, sitting next to him, takes it from JK and says: “this is a necklace Jungkook-ssi”.

JK blurts out adamantly that he won’t hang it around his neck.

This is when things get awkward, because you can see JM is clearly upset, throws the necklace back at JK and says: “OK, then”.

JM has a dream catcher necklace around his neck too, and when it’s his turn to tell what gift he bought himself he takes the necklace off and gives it to V, saying he bought the gift for V, who had a nightmare last night. Did he really? Buy it for V, I mean. Or did he do that as a 'teaching moment' for his bae? Or maybe he was just pissed at JK, so this was payback. Who knows. It was a mini tantrum of sorts.

And after JM’s mini tantrum JK, who previously adamantly professed he will not put it around his neck, does everything he can to put the necklace on, finally turning to JM to help him put the it on, which he does.

Later on, while sitting for the personal interview, with the necklace around his neck, he tells us how from now on he won’t have nightmares.

What did I get from all that?

Clearly JM was pissed at JK’s reaction.  Why?  JK clearly bought this by himself for himself.

But did he?  Was it something he chose for himself, or was it something JM suggested to him? Was it something JM wanted to buy for the both of them? Both to wear the necklace, that clearly JM already had around his neck.

It's obvious JK's reluctance to wear the necklace offended JM. It pissed him off.  JK’s comment felt as a rejection. You see it in the way he reacts to JK's words.

And then, the way JK immediately changes his attitude towards the necklace, trying to put it on, when only a second earlier he said he won’t put this around his neck, shows how attuned he was to JM, how he immediately realised he did something wrong, something to upset JM, and how he tried, in his own way, to atone for it, by wearing the same thing he but seconds ago rejected.

Last underrated moment for me is JM's 2017 birthday surprise Bangtan bomb.

JM gets flowers sent from his father.  J-Hope and Suga pretend JM’s dad has arrived to surprise JM, Suga pointing and saying he saw him.  JK slowly backs up, shocked and alarmed smile on his face, trying to move behind RM.  Then the boys start laughing.

Now, why do I think this is such a big moment?  Well, when the boys start laughing, revealing it was a joke, the one Suga points at, laughingly, is JK.

The whole thing feels like a joke on JK, not JM.  JK is the one being teased.   Why would JK be so stressed out from JM’s dad being there?  And why would the boys be teasing him like that? Hm…

The funny thing is that the camera is on JK and Suga, not on JM, who was supposedly just told his father was there. That feels slightly strange to me. Wouldn’t they want to catch JM’s reaction? Not JK’s?

So, what do we get from that moment? JK's stressed that JM's dad is there. Why would he be stressed by that? Oh, what a second, maybe because he's 'the boyfriend' (ahm)?

We get the boys playing a joke on JK. It's JM's birthday, wouldn't the joke be on him? But no, the focus is on JK... ahm again. That being, yet again, a sign that the boys know exactly what's going on between JM & JK. Otherwise, why would they be teasing JK like that?

Another interesting point I took from this whole Bangtan bomb was the focus of the camera being on Suga & JK when this whole thing is going down, rather than on JM. You would think the joke is on JM, but no, it's on JK, and for some reason the camera man knows it?

Jikook car drive to CT

I think that before I dive into the actual car ride I have to set a few things straight.

Did you guys notice they chose to ride together? Shock and awe...

Lmao.

Just a little stab for all those who were nitpicking at them back in 2021-23. Yeah, you's that were all about "but they don't ride in the same car anymore", or "they aren't addressing each other or reacting to each other on SM", or whatever other kind of insecurity for some or just outright malice from others.

JM and JK are the same JM and JK they were before the hiatus and solo paths. Same same. With adjustments having to be made to a new reality of not spending close to 24/7 together. Adjusting to their crazy busy solo work and schedules. Adjusting to learning how to be alone when you are used to not being, because your significant other is submerged in his work while you are not. With adjustments to not having ot7 as their protecting glass closet. When you are used to being together close to 24/7 and circumstances change and you can't anymore, as a couple you need to adjust to that new reality and sometimes it's harder on one of you than the other. Not because you don't love each other or need each other equally, but because you are different people and adjust differently to this new reality.

And in the reality of these 2 young men, well it has been apparent since the beginning of 2023 that JK was the one that was struggling most with these changes. I'd say that this is can be a huge clue to his neurodivergence.

When we look at these two young men, whom I believe to be 2 queer young men in a long term loving relationship, not only do we need to look at them within the context of them being in one of the biggest if not THE biggest band in the world right now, living in a still mostly homophobic society and at the time were looking at enlisting for their 18 month military service, a military that still outlaws sexual relations between men.

This has to be understood while looking at Jikook throughout the years and in 2021-2023, things changing after creation of Hybe, going public, trying to buy out SM and the whole saga with MHJ (which was going on since Oct 2022 behind the scenes).

That's a good starting point understanding them in 2023 and going into watching Are you sure?

But that's not all.

There's more.

Seeing some of the reactions, comments, posts I feel the need to say this as well:

JM and JK are human beings.

They aren't characters in a drama.

This isn't The Bold and the Beautiful, JK not Ridge and JM not Brooke or vise versa (seriously, just picked the parallels because of the current hair colours). They weren't married and divorced ending up with others and then married again and divorced and with others and just going on and on and on. Ups and downs, ins and outs, together and parted. This is real life, not a TV show. Not only would their love not last that (and they clearly love each other), their interactions, their dynamics wouldn't just stay the same same. Not to mention what it would have done to the band and their own relationships with the others. They wouldn't survive it nor would the band. So don't create drama where there isn't is what I say.

What I see is a pretty much levelled long term couple. With relationship bumps in the road, adjustments, frustrations, moods.

I also see 2 queer young men who due to the reality of 2023 have close to zero camera time in one frame. And it shows.

But mainly I see LOTS AND LOTS OF LOVE FOR EACH OTHER.

On top of that I see both of them feeling physically unwell. Poor JM with his stomach issues and bursting pipe (yes I just said that, lol), and JK who has been ill for days, had to go to the hospital for treatment before his solo debut performance, for that performance to be fucked up by the weather. Man was definitley still unwell the whole time constantly sniffling and coughing. And JM worrying about JK's health is another indicator as to it not being nothing.

Bottom line: these are real life people with their own different characteristics, feelings, stress, anxiety, illnesses and the runs.

Not that they didn't know there will be cameras, they were well aware of it, but looks like JM was initially a little shocked to see just how many of them.

Even with the cameras and initial apparent awkwardness, not with each other, but with the whole "it's just the two of us on camera together, no other members to buffer", they are at ease with each other, smiling and giggling.

And even with the cameras and that on one hand need to say things but on the other need to still be wary of what you say and not to say too much - something they are expert at, even if it's been a while and takes them a bit to get back on the wagon with. Even with that they go back to that very jikooky type of formal - informal interaction with each other, JK 'forgetting' JM is the hyung out of the two (like I said, same same).

We have JM's cheeky comment about spooning JK if he's cold, one he insisted on implementing that same night. Mics on, cameras obviously on, but us not allowed to see a thing (and I will talk about this in another post - the whole "if there's nothing to hide how come we didn't get to see one of the apparently funniest moments of the trip, one that the the two and those around them couldn't shut up about?" (phew, that was a long question).

We also get a cute JM looking out for JK's health turning on the heat in the car, turning on his seat heater (without JK knowing about it, lol).

As a whole, those two in the car sounded like an old married couple. I was watching laughing the whole time, the whole thing feeling too familiar, lol.

But I know what you are all waiting for.

More so those that love to question their relationship.

Let's get on and discuss the car convo some are stressing over.

This:

But wait.

Before I talk about it, there's one more word I want to mention.

CONTEXT.

Context is EVERYTHING.

We all know that, right?

And what is the important context here?

Well, first of, this is all in front of the cameras.

Secondly, we ALL KNOW that even with their crazy schedules JM and JK DID GET TO SEE EACH OTHER in those months counting up to this trip, in private, just the two of them.

We know from them that they were together drinking the night before Hobi's enlistment, for example. We know JM was at JK's before JM left for London end of May, JK 'complaining' about having to change the way JM adjusted the mood lamp. We know they are the closest duo in the group, but beyond that, those two are just super close. We know that JK went live basically every time JM left for overseas and was overjoyed when JM showed up in his comments (including his comments during the mukbang live and perhaps coming over after he finished his schedule). This is before this trip. Let's not mention (or maybe let's) the flirt-fest we got in the JK in bed live that came shortly after this trip.

One other huge thing we seem to forget is that:

This is an edited product we are seeing.

Not a live discussion.

And even if it looks like the conversation is somewhat flowing, when you look really closely you see that there are cuts cuts cuts. Some might just be change of camera angle, others are real cuts where you can see that whatever was said was not said at the same time as a flowing conversation.

So, if you look carefully you will see that the first part of the discussion and the part where JM brings up V are not exactly in one flow. That there is a cut between what JK says, and we will get to that, don't fret, and when JM brings up him facetiming with V and what follows.

The start of it is also not clear. If what JM says about not going somewhere together in a while is the start of the flow of conversation, then the clip they are showing us of them in the car driving in the streets of NY is not connected to that, because the conversation continues when they are already out of town. 2 possibilities here. Either that was the start of the convo and for some reason they decided to show the car driving in NY even though the convo happened with them out of the city already. Or, once again, my point that maybe the convo isn't in one flow - even that first part of it. That JM did say what he said when they were still in the city and then their conversation following was edited in a way that we didn't get much of it until they were already out of the city and JK says what he says.

Reason I bring this up is again to emphasize the fact that as much as we are let in, we are still getting an edited product.

You know, same edited product that cuts out their flirty playful bedtime toothbrushing session.

I also want to bring this up, because I basically agree with much of what @shellbells-things the importance of them needing that getaway together (in this post):

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Shellbells-Things

I’ve seen a lot of discourse over the Jikook Car Convo. I think on the surface, it sent mixed signals. But if you think about what you know

This was written with the official translations in mind.

But you see, this is not what JK said.

The actual translation is basically JK calling out JM for not seeking him out enough!!!

And we also have this from @haedalkoo (thanks you for this post💜):

And why does it matter? Why do these different translations matter? Because they tell us a totally different story.

In the first you have JK saying that when one of them is busy, even though the other is not, he does not tend to call/reach out to the one that is busy. Basically this could be read as them not making an effort to contact the other even when they had time on their hands to do so. And perhaps that is why there are people up in arms about this, although my take of it is that even if this was the correct translation, which it is not, that understanding, that conclusion, would have been a very superficial one, disregarding the context of those two, who they are, where they are and what they are doing, as mentioned above.

In the other, what seems to be the more accurate translation, we have a salty boyfriend complaining about his partner not reaching out to him when he's busy, but also not reaching out to him when JK is busy, even if JM is not as busy.

"Your busy you don't seek me out, your not busy you don't seek me out"...

Now let's look at what JK said within the context of it all.

This isn't about them not seeing each other, not being in touch at all. Being estranged. Losing contact. Like so many want it to be about, given that would be so much more dramatic and 'interesting'.

This is about it not being enough for JK.

Enough being the key word.

JM and JK are different. They are both highly driven, and when JK has a JM by his side, said JM is a catalyst and has JK as driven as him. But you see, they weren't together. JM, being the workaholic that he is, highly driven with his work, having to give not 100% but 1000%, could easily lose himself in that work. And as much as he loves JK, or perhaps even more so because he's crazy about him, he can't have him around as a distraction. So, in a sense, when he works he can get lost in that work and that leaves little "free" time to spend with the person he loves, the person that loves him, the person that needs him. Same person that was REALLY struggling at the start of 2023 while JM was too absent. Again, that does not mean that JM was not spending time with JK. It was just not enough. Especially while JK was sort of lost at that point in a sense that he had no clear path set for himself. JK is different in the sense that JM is kind of his blankie, his anchor, his safe place. He needs JM around even when he is up to nothing (see JM's "he comes to my room to lie on my bed and do nothing" from the LA live 2021). And having him around is a need. Do we remember crying JK at the end of his lives on White day 2023. Heart wrenching. And again, it's not that JM doesn't need JK, he does, but a. his need is different to JK's, and b. JM was super busy at the time while JK was doing basically nothing.

And when JK was busy, well I'm guessing that JM was giving him the space he thought JK needed to work. But obviously this wasn't what JK wanted.

This saltiness is all coming from the same person that says he doesn't answer his phone calls or reply to texts. The person that JM complained when he doesn't answer his calls. With all that he still needed JM to reach out. He needed to know that JM is thinking about him.

This conversation isn't about them not seeing each other. It's about not seeing each other enough. It's about JM not seeking JK out as much as JK needed him to. And it's about them not being able, for whichever reasons (exterior or self inflicted) to do exactly this. Be out and about together. The two of them. This is exactly what you do in a healthy long term relationship. You talk. You are open. You tell your partner how you feel and what you need.

And you know what JK sounded like to me?

He reminded me of this JK:

YouTube

✂️ JK "you turned it off"

60 seconds · Clipped by Jikookland9597 · Original video "Throwback Thursday - BTS Jungkook Vlive (Ft. Jin, Jimin & Taehyung) Full (Eng Sub)"

The JK that even though he had already scolded JM he couldn't just let it go. That even though JM apologized several times and explained himself, he just couldn't let it go because it was weighing on him, that choice that he felt JM made.

And I know, I just know, that this conversation we got in the car was not a one of. That "Your here. Finally" we got from him at the end...

He needed this to happen, for JM to make this happen.

I will also add, even though I cannot go into too much detail at this point, that I feel that the : "You're here. Finally", has so much more sub context to it within the way they had both handled 2022-23 and that adjustment to the new reality. Not about it being easier for one over the other, but more so about how they handled this "apartness" that was kind of forced on them.

Anyway, that "finally", that was it for me. Seeing. No. Feeling how this was weighing on JK. Feeling just how important this was for him. JM making that effort and showing up for him like he did.

I hope that I have managed to get the message through. I will drill it in with my three keywords to this post:

COUPLE

CONTEXT

ENOUGH

I will end this by saying this:

Read that convo as you will, see those two as you will. At the end of the day not only did they CHOOSE to do this again and again (even with the little time they still had with their crazy schedules and upcoming enlistment). Not only did JK say he wanted to keep going with this until they are 50 years old. But they also CHOSE to enlist together. To be TOGETHER for those 18 months of military service. CHOOSING to do so knowing that meant a harder service and placement.

At the end of the day they CHOSE EACH OTHER.

And they will keep on doing so!!!

The cutest things I've seen today😭

Saw it in facebook...(Photo credits to the owner)

What a nice piece!

(photo not mine)

take my coin!!!!!!!!!!!!