Latest Posts by kittycatsfromzolar - Page 15

Why is Bare: A Pop Opera not as super popular as Dear Evan Hansen or Be More Chill? The fandom loves LGBT rep (which Bare has) and the songs are amazing and I think B:APO is actually superior to both of those. Thoughts? I mean the musical fandom tends to try to find LGBT characters even when they aren't stated, so why do you think Bare is not as popular?

this is a very interesting question and I am hopefully going to do it justice by analyzing Fandom, Musical Writing, and Many Other Things I’m Super Passionate About

the short: many factors and a lot of luck

the unnecessarily long: 

(opening disclaimer: I love dear evan hansen and be more chill, and I’m not upset that they’re popular musicals because I feel that they’re popular for a reason. anything that sounds like an insult in the following response isn’t such because I truly enjoy both of those musicals a lot) 

(another disclaimer: spoilers for bare, DEH, and BMC, also mentions of homophobia) 

on paper, bare seems like the exact sort of musical that would be popular. bare the musical (cursed as it is) has a cast of super popular actors like Barrett Wilbert Weed, Gerard Canonico, Taylor Trensch, Alice Lee, Alex Wyse, a high quality bootleg exists of the 2013 LA cast, it’s got LGBT+ rep, complex women characters… and yet it’s got a tiny fan base. Why? 

first let’s look at why dear evan hansen and be more chill are popular. I’m more well versed in bmc, so let’s look at its history (disclaimer: I’m estimating dates but this is roughly the timeline) 

the original bmc run was in 2015 I believe. they recorded a soundtrack, everything was fine, and they closed. in 2017, people began discovering the soundtrack in hoards. specifically, they were discovering one song: Michael in the bathroom. that’s even how I learned about the show- I heard that song and had to look up the rest of the soundtrack. and in February of 2019, they’ll start previews on broadway because the fandom was revived 

why this song? I think a ton of fame comes from talent, yes, but also from luck. I think bmc was lucky that Michael in the bathroom, a great song, was discovered as the great song that it is. I also think the fame came because that song is super relatable. as someone with pretty bad anxiety, that song really touched me because I’ve definitely spent parties hiding in the bathroom and avoiding everyone and wishing I was dead because I’m so overwhelmed with anxiety. it’s relatable, so people flocked to it. 

this made me pause to think “what is bare’s hook song” my first thought was a quiet night at home if we want a song in the same vein as MITB, but that song isn’t as hype as MITB (and fandoms don’t care about fem characters as much as it cares about masc characters). my next thought was are you there because I think it’s a bop and a relatable “pls someone help” kind of song, but I don’t know which song everyone could relate to as much as everyone could relate to MITB 

and speaking of relatable content- that’s where the DEH connection comes in. dear evan hansen is similarly relatable, although it takes that to an extreme given what Evan does as a result of his anxiety. Michael and Evan are relatable characters, even if you don’t condone everything they do (and if you condone everything Evan does, we have much to talk about)

but doesn’t bare have relatable characters?? absolutely !! there’s Peter, a closeted gay kid who wants to come out, and Jason, someone who acts tough but is secretly very insecure, and Nadia, with her body image issues, and Ivy, who people won’t take seriously because they’ve decided they already know her, and so many other complex characters. so why are they left behind? 

let’s look at bare’s history: 

bare was originally written in the 90s (I want to say 1999, but I could be wrong) the performance most people consider the quintessential bare performance was in 2004 with Michael Arden, John Hill, Jenna Leigh Green, etc. 

if you compare this to DEH and BMC, the first issue is clear. DEH was hugely popular around 2016. BMC began to grow in popularity in 2017. these are very, very new shows. 20 years doesn’t sound like a lot, but in our current age where time seems to pass so quickly which each new fad, bare seems like an older musical, and a lot of people aren’t the biggest fan of older musicals. and they don’t have to be !! but it’s a personal preference of some people that could affect how they view bare as a potential musical to be a fan of 

in terms of the music of bare, it’s definitely catchy, but it’s not like a pop song. (again, no shade at DEH and BMC because those aren’t jukebox musicals or anything). bare is simply not as easy to listen to as DEH and BMC are in my opinion (and it’s not the most complicated thing ever either, but holy cow its lyrics are smart and I have to throw that in here) 

now let’s look at reasons why people may not want to watch bare. while it is great that it has canon gay characters, compelling women characters, and is very cleverly written it also has issues that can be turn-offs to people. this includes: 

-bury your gays

-gay-guy-cheats-on-boyfriend-with-girl trope 

-gay-guy-gets-outed trope 

-and potentially other homophobic tropes

I’m not shaming bare for perpetuating these tropes because it was written 20 years ago, and lgbt+ people are allowed to enjoy media in spite of its perpetuation of negative tropes, but for some people these things are enough to turn them away. and I don’t blame them! I watched bare the musical before I watched bare a pop opera, and when Jason I died I closed out of YouTube without finishing the show because I was so Sick of bury your gays. 

I am aware that there are reasons Jason died at the end of bare (they’re making a statement about how homophobia kills, particularly how homophobic religious people can have an awful affect on young religious gay people), but there comes a time when “reasons for a gay character to die” is just too much. sometimes, you just want the gay character to live, and I completely respect that notion because I felt the exact same way when I watched bare the musical. I remember when I first watched bare the musical I wrote a thread about how as a Romeo and Juliet adaptation, bare follows some things closely (like death at the end) while avoiding other extremes (Romeo running off to another country) and I thus felt the death was unnecessary. if someone else feels similarly about being sick of gay characters dying, they have every right to not want to watch bare 

that’s enough on why someone might not want to watch bare. let’s get back to bare vs DEH and BMC 

I also think a big aspect of fandoms is shipping. the fetishization of MLM (and consequently ignoring fem characters completely, along with focusing solely on white men for their shipping and ignoring men of color) is a huge problem in fandoms that I could talk about forever, but for the sake of this response, I’ll keep it a bit shorter 

DEH and BMC profit heavily off of shipping in terms of gaining popularity. people love Evan x Connor (and other ships but that’s the main one I see), and people love Jeremy x Michael (and others). so why then do people not care about bare, a show with a canon relationship between 2 basic white men, which is their ultimate goal? 

I think people like the idea of these mlm ships more than canon content. if there’s canon, it’s harder for them to make a variety of ships because it feels like everything else has to rotate around the canon without touching it (which is where the bare fandom gets Matt x Lucas because they’re the closest they have to 2 basic men- I can write my criticism of them another time though) 

I’ve also seen posts saying that things with canon lgbt+ characters sometimes have smaller fandoms because there is no need for lgbt+ theorizing- it’s right there, and if you want lgbt+ content, watch the thing. I don’t necessarily agree with this for myself (I’ll reblog every pilgrim’s hands gifset I see) but I can definitely see how other people might think this way 

failing to hype up stuff with lgbt+ characters can have a negative impact. BMC is the prime example of how a show can be revived by its passionate fan base. if people aren’t talking about bare, it’s not going to spread like other shows do 

this is kind of all over the place but anyway- I want to talk about characters more. one thing DEH and BMC have are great, complex characters that are very easy to boil down to a fandom’s favorite stereotypes. I am absolutely not saying DEH and BMC have simple characters because I think all of them have layers; however, fandoms do love to go “this is precious cinnamon roll who can do no wrong and this is evil awful terrible irredeemable person” and it’s a bit difficult to do that with bare. 

you can say Peter is your perfect son, but he does try to force Jason out before he’s ready. you can say Ivy is the evil seductress trying to tear apart your gay babies, but I will physically fight you. there aren’t any black-and-white good or bad bare characters (except Father Flynn- hate him), which doesn’t fit in line with the way fandoms function. sweeping generalizations about the current state of society based on the internet are exhausting and bad, but we do live in an age where everything must either be perfect or evil, and you can’t do that with bare. no one “did nothing wrong uwu” and that’s what fandoms Want 

(note: they will excuse wrong actions, such as everything wrong Connor Murphy has ever done, if the character is played by a mildly attractive guy they want to ship with another mildly attractive guy) 

another point that I don’t have fully fleshed out thoughts on enough to devote too much time to is the integration of parents into the shows. in both DEH and BMC, the parents get redemption arcs. in bare, Claire does say she love Peter at the end, but she’s much less of a sympathetic character than Mr. Heere or Heidi (that’s her name right- Evan’s mom) or the Murphys. when I was younger, I wasn’t allowed to watch anything that painted parents, or adults in general, in a negative light, but maybe that’s not a universal experience 

this is getting way too long and it probably has more thought put into it than what was necessary, so I’ll try to close this quickly 

I think, first off, that DEH and BMC completely deserve the hype that they have received. they’ve got compelling stories, interesting characters, and fantastic soundtracks. I also think that luck factors heavily into them getting what they deserve. there are plenty of great shows, like bare and the boy who danced on air and spies are forever and probably more that I’m not thinking of, that have great music and characters and story that, out of sheer chance, don’t get the chance they should have been given. there is no bulleted list someone can follow and at the end they’ll be on broadway with an armful of tonys; is the luck of the draw, and bare has not been afforded that chance 

I’ll end with some reasons why anyone who happened to read this but might not be a bare fan should listen to or watch bare: 

- it is an amazingly clever show; every time I watch it or listen to it, I realize another moment of foreshadowing or a line I originally brushed off was actually very significant or there’s another recurring motif/theme in the music 

- it’s full of bops (go listen to you and I or are you there or portrait of a girl) 

- canon gay characters in a canon gay relationship 

- 3 dimensional fem characters that actively criticize stereotypes 

- it’s about a religious gay boy who grapples with his religion and his sexuality and how those two things can coexist 

- it is Very Very Good

in conclusion: bare is very good and deserves attention xx

and now... jeremy heere being stupid (ft. bill cipher)

i whole heartedly agree that he would make a deal with bill, he's really stupid like that.

bonus:

Ummmmm just like the aesthetic I imagine the rtc fall fair had!!!! 🎡🎢🎟️🎠🍿

opinions on misha being queer? not only in the context of dating noel but just in general (sorry if uve answered this before..)

I think it's definitely possible and that there are interpretations of it where it makes absolute sense! In terms of my Misha, it was the first time I'd played a character as an adult where I went "oh weird, I think he's straight." bc I tend to make every character I play at least bisexual, but idk. My Misha just very much so came to me very straight.

But one interpretation isn't to speak on the character as a whole/other interpretations. I think he's very easily read and interpreted as queer, I just personally saw him as a very open minded European man who didn't give a fuck about Western ideals like that. Like he's the dude who takes Noel to prom bc Talia's not able to go (bc Ukraine) and he'd rather go with his best friend & give his bestie that experience (and beat up anyone who had anything to say about it.)

The way I rational with that is this:

I personally identify as a gay man. That being said, I have in my life kissed my lady friends, danced with them, hugged them, cuddled up, etc. That doesn't make me inherently bisexual, it doesn't make me inherently straight, I am just a dude who loves his friends & expresses it in those ways. Same w/my personal interpretation of Misha- him dancing w/ or hugging or kissing Noel doesn't make him inherently bi or gay, he's just a love bug. I think that platonic affection between men, specifically between straight men & queer men is incredibly underrepresented, and if it were something more normalized in our society I think that we'd all be better off for it. So I wanted to showcase that w/my Misha- it also felt true to my interpretation of the character.

TL;DR- Misha can be queer, Misha can be hetero, it just comes down to your personal interpretation! Mine was not, for several reasons, but that doesn't make someone else's interpretation any less valid.

Rizz em with the 'tism 😎

He's natural, like disasters. (Hello Tumblr!)

happy rtc day!!!

happy rtc day!!!!!

he tells me words of love, everyday words, and it does something to me

happy cyclone day

(song: la vie en rose)

(reblogs appreciated)

ILLTERATE

GAY

FELON

what’s wrong babe? you’ve barely touched your noel gruber hungry hombre meal

question

has it ever happened in an rtc production where the character who sings dream of life isn't jane doe? like does it have to be her?

because i have a thought, that is kind of morbid and gross but could be done with projections and/or special effects i think

what if it was penny's decapitated head singing

Imagine doing the same meme twice… couldn’t be me

I hate the Noel Gruber transfemme headcanon SO muchhh.

Disclaimer: You can headcanon this all you want I just disagree!

Noel doesn't want to be A girl, he wants to be THAT fucked up girl. He invented a character that he romanticised and wanted to be. His monologue was about how he wanted 'bad love', quoting that those who have 'never felt the ecstasy of betrayal know nothing of ecstasy at all'. He wants to hurt, just to feel something.

Noel was bored, poor, and lonely. He longed for love. I think people miss the idea that Noel is a commentary on what under representation/misrepresentation of marginalised communities does to the people in those communities. He says that he was the only gay man in his school. Gay men are not properly represented in media, so the ones he saw in film/TV were probably oversexualised and sidelined. He believed that he had to move to another country to achieve his dreams of love (though he never explicitly states that as being why he was saving up to move to France, but given that he is 'the most romantic boy in town' and is very fixated on romance we can only assume).

To me, it seems like he internalised the idea that straight people get to have relationships whilst he stood by and watched, playing into the twink persona to be more digestible to the small town people that surrounded him. So, he wanted to be the girl that all the boys wanted. He wanted to be something more than the guy who works at the Taco Bell. He submerged himself in this world where he was fuckable (because he was a ruthlessly horny teenager) and attractive to men, and, to him, that was a woman whom they could use (a further implication towards Noel being intensely influenced by the media he consumed, since his monologue is, like, 50% about a movie he likes). He doesn't want to be a woman, he wants to be Monique Gibeau.

So, what I mean is that just saying he's a trans woman erases all of that and makes his character so shallow. He stops being the romanticist who longs for a love that he fears nobody will ever offer him, he just becomes a woman. This contradicts the fact that he clearly doesn't know the first thing about womanhood and the fact that he's a gay man who lacks the community and queer joy that other people who live in more urban areas have access to, being told by his mother that he should 'blend in' rather than feel pride.

a bit of nischa <3 i almost got a goddamn migraine i really gotta stop being on a damn screen so long

talia + perfectbride because what ship is better than two characters that have never met each other

he invented gender

not sorry for this post. someone had to say it.