Is There A Discord For Fans Of Spider From James Cameron's Avatar?

This was such a fantastic read, and I will add this to the fic and credit you properly! Unfortunately, Quaritch won't live as I've already gotten his death planned out. Still, he will haunt the narrative in future chapters and serve as a representation of Spider's trauma and his growing distrust towards parental figures who have let him down.

However, I will be balancing out the angst with feel-good and character growth for everyone. Spider's little symbiote acts as a positive force in Spider's life and shows him that he's more than just the son of the murderer and that no one but him gets to decide who he will become. Spider keeps his little friend a secret for the entire fanfic due to his growing distrust towards the Sullies (Jake and Neytiri), which leads to a lot of conflict because they can't understand how he managed to travel alone all the way to Awa'atlu, and Neytiri outright accuses him of being a spy which causes Spider to have an angry teen outburst and yell that if he's a spy then Jake is the biggest spy because it's his fault that hometree got destroyed.

MORE DRAMA ENSUES, but Spider defends everyone from the RDA and saves Neteyam. Whether or not he leaves is still being worked on, but I want the kid to find his own place in the world without the Sullies. He's got a lot of hurt feelings and trust issues bottled up inside of him and needs to go no-contact for his own mental well-being.

I’ve been watching Venom and got the idea of a symbiote landing on Pandora, instantly bonding with Spider since humans make easy hosts. However, instead of immediately going on a killing spree, the symbiote becomes captivated by the beauty of Pandora and declares Spider its tour guide. Spider, feeling lonely, confused, and terrified, agrees. What begins as a horror story soon transforms into a slow-paced, heartfelt adventure—Spider guiding this parasite through the alien planet. At the same time, the symbiote, thrilled by its new surroundings, keeps Spider safe. The pair occasionally takes out RDA soldiers because Spider refuses to harm any Na'vi, and the symbiote, disapproving of the soldiers hurting Pandora, takes great pleasure in ripping off their heads.

"Those metal-clad parasites who defile everything they touch with their sharp scents. They hate this pretty planet. I will eat them."

Spider’s chest tightened. He could hear it—the hunger beneath the symbiote’s words. A cold, calculating fury. "I won’t let you hurt the Na'vi," he said through gritted teeth, his voice steadier than he felt.

"I do not care for the blue ones. They do not harm this world like the others." The symbiote’s tone softened, almost indulgent. "You, little one, are the bridge between this world and mine."

Spider blinked, confused. "Wait… what?"

"You will be my tour guide," it purred, its voice filling his head with an odd sense of calm. "You are the one who will show me the beauty, wonders, and life of this planet and teach me about this Eywa."

Spider’s mind spun. "Tour guide?" He could barely keep up. "What are you talking about?"

"You were born here on this planet. Now, you are my guide."

Bonds That Bleed AU

I have some thoughts about an au where Neytiri decides to adopt Spider, but with a twist. Neytiri starts off with a cold, calculated plan to mold Spider into her weapon against the demon who destroyed her family, only to genuinely bond with Spider over time and see him as her own.

-) From the moment Neytiri laid eyes on the squirming, pink-skinned demon, she felt the fire of hatred coil around her heart. He has his father’s face. The same features, the same blood in his veins—Quaritch’s legacy, staring back at her with wide, unknowing eyes and a gummy smile. Instinct screamed at her to cast him away, to have him banished to her mate's former planet, to spare her home from the cruelty of yet another sky demon. But she didn’t. She couldn’t.

-) Instead, Neytiri shoved her hatred into the deepest, coldest part of herself and made a choice. She would raise him. Not out of kindness. Not out of pity. Certainly not out of any foolish maternal instinct. No, she would raise him as a weapon. An instrument of vengeance.

-) Quaritch had stolen everything from her—her father, her sister, her brother, her home, countless lives of her people. And now, she would take everything from him. She would mold his son into something unrecognizable, shape him into the very antithesis of the man who sired him. Spider would walk like the Na’vi, speak their tongue, fight with their weapons, and live by their beliefs. He would forsake the demon blood in his veins until nothing of Quaritch remained. And when the time came, she would watch the fear dawn in the demon's eyes as his own flesh and blood struck him down.

-) There are times when Jake watches her with wary eyes when she helps Spider take his first steps, when she shushes his pitiful bleatings, and when she cradles him in her arms and holds his little hand in hers. There is an unease in Jake’s stare, as if he sees the shape of her plan but does not know how to stop it—or perhaps, deep down, does not want to. It does not matter.

-) Neytiri is resolute. She has a path, and she will walk it to the end. She will strip away every trace of Quaritch’s legacy, reshape him, teach him to hate the sky people, to despise the blood in his veins. He will not be human. He will not be Omatikaya. He will be a blade—her blade. He will be hers. And one day, when the time is right, he will drive that blade into his father’s heart.

-) But like all well-laid plans, this one did not go as intended.

-) Neytiri had expected wariness. She had expected grudging respect, perhaps even a smidgen of pride that he was picking up her lessons with eagerness. What she had not expected was love. Spider is eager, desperate to prove himself. As he grows, he stumbles, falls, bleeds—but always gets back up. He grins at her when she corrects his stance, laughs when she gently tugs at his hair in reprimand, glows under her approval.

-) It should not matter. He is a means to an end. And yet, somewhere along the way, the pretending stops. She began to see him. To feel warmth towards him.

-) Not the reluctant duty of a mentor or the cold satisfaction of a hunter circling its prey, but the aching, unbidden love of a mother.

-) Somewhere between teaching him to string a bow and scolding him for climbing too high, between pressing healing paste to his scraped knees and watching him giggle as Lo’ak and Neyteyam drag him into trouble with Kiri chasing after them and Tuk toddling along, something in her heart shifts. She no longer sees Quaritch in his face and instead sees Miles—a boy as unpredictable and beautiful as the forest, as fierce as any warrior, as stubborn as herself. A child who saw her as a mother.

-) And when the day finally came that she looked at him and realized she could not bear to lose him, Neytiri understood the cruelest twist of fate:

In trying to make him her weapon, she had made him her son.

James Cameron has written Neytiri and Spider's relationship before...

Recently I went on a kick of rewatching old sci-fi movies, including the James Cameron ones of course, and I noticed an interesting little pattern in JC's storytelling:

In Terminator 2 we have our protagonist Sarah Connor. In the first movie she was almost killed by the first terminator, so in the second movie, when she meets the new terminator, she's understandably distrustful of it even though her son, John, trusts it. However, the new terminator proves itself to be loyal to John, so she realizes she doesn't have to be distrustful and even comes to rely on it in the end.

Then in Alien 2 we have Ellen Ripley. In the first movie, Ripley was almost killed because of the android Rook, so in the second movie, when she meets a new android, Bishop, she's understandably distrustful of him even though the other human characters trust him. Just like the new terminator, Bishop proves himself to be loyal, and Ripley realizes she can trust him and they become friends by the end (and stay friends for the rest of their lives because I like to pretend Alien 3 didn't happen 😭)

Now we have the Avatar sequels and Neytiri. In the first Avatar, Neytiri was almost killed by Quaritch, so in the second movie, when she's around his son, she's extremely distrustful even though her family members trust Spider... hmm I wonder how James Cameron is going to resolve that conflict? 🤔

Obviously, Neytiri/Spider's relationship is more complicated and ugly than Ripley/Bishop and Sarah Connor/the second Terminator, but the story beats are still lining up the same. We don't know the conclusion to Neytiri and Spider's relationship conflict just yet, but looking at James Cameron's other works, I think he may be setting up to follow the same pattern as Alien 2 and Terminator 2.

Having a main protagonist realize she was wrong about someone and change her views on them is a story beat James Cameron seems to enjoy writing, and it's one that works really well. Giving a character flaws and having them grow and change is what creates compelling character arcs!

Avatar co-writer Amanda Silver even commented on the narrative purpose of Neytiri disliking Spider in an interview: "Neytiri is a fully fleshed-out character. She’s got flaws. So it’s okay to let her have flaws, we think. And that’s where Jim was coming from."

All this is to say that no, we are not going to see Neytiri murder Spider in Avatar 3 like many young fans hope, that would be a horribly depressing conclusion for her character arc; to never be challenged on her biases and never have to reflect on her views and grow. I for one am really excited to see how James Cameron and co resolve their conflict since their relationship has a lot more bad blood than the other two examples did!

Adopted Spider Headcanons (Metkayina Edition)

I've been reading fics where Spider's adopted by Ronal and Tonowari the past couple days and now I'm obsessed. The problem is that I mostly write angst and I really wanna read hurt/comfort, lol.

I feel like the typical/common way that I see Spider get taken in is basically him doing his little beach bum shit after everything and slowly getting adopted into their family. And I eat it up. Every. Single. Time.

Spider: *Building a campfire, roasting his own food* Ronal/Tonowari/Tsireya or Anoung: *Why is the Sully's adoptive son alone on the beach?* *Oh well, mine now*

I feel like Ronal would definitely be way at first, she's made it no secret that she strongly dislikes Sky People. But, I'd imagine that eventually, she comes to see him not just as a human, but as a child. And a child who is alone and in need of help.

Aounung would probably be the same. I have this idea of him giving Spider a hard time (after all the carnage/damage/dead people have been handled). Like, trying to mess with him as much as possible, just being an asshole. And then, maybe Spider goes under for a long time while Aounung is on the beach weaving or something. And, even though Spider has a mask and can breath underwater as well as he does above it, Aounung somehow forgot that and freaks, thinking the human has drowned.

Aounung tossed his half-repaired net aside, diving into the water. He whipped around, eyes catching on the mess of dirty blond. Pushing further, he grabbed the boy by the armpits, shooting to the surface and pulling the human onto land. He flipped him over, meeting confused eyes as he placed a hand on his chest. He was breathing fine, not even panting from being under for so—

Spider's mask glinted in the sun. Aounung was an idiot.

"Are you . . . okay?" The smaller boy asked hesitantly, making no move to sit up.

"You were under for a long time." He mumbled, pulling away.

Spider's face split into a grin. "Did you— did you think I was— "

"Quiet." He hissed, standing up. "We will never speak of this again."

Spider's laughter followed him as he stormed away.

I feel like with Tsireya, she would've immediately been all over him. Like, this is Spider, Lo'ak's supposed best friend. The human boy who acted just like he was Na'vi. It probably started mostly as curiosity, but I think that after seeing how the Sully's interacted with Spider, she'd be confused about his place, his family. If Spider didn't sleep in the Sully's marui, didn't eat with them— then where did he do those things?

Tsireya glided along the water, Lo'ak a few feet from her. "Why doesn't Spider stay in your marui?"

Lo'ak raised a brow. "Uh . . . I don't know. He lives with the humans, I guess. Always has."

"But . . . the humans left after helping Kiri. They have not returned."

"They . . . they haven't?" He cleared his throat. "I'm sure Dad has it handled. There's probably a new shack or something for him."

Consider Spider's mask running low and there isn't a spare anywhere. As a kid, he never was gone from the shack long enough for his battery to run low and during his time with the recoms, there were always spares in someone's pack when he needed it. Idk how long the masks last, but for my own sake, I'm going to say Spider got a new one the day of the battle and it lasted him about a week. Or maybe, he managed to pillage one as the ship went down so he's on his second and it's like two weeks or so.

I think that when he saw the little red light flashing, a small beep-beep sounding, that he'd probably be like a kid who forgot there was a test. He'd just panic. But, I imagine he'd also be scared to bother the Sully's by telling them, so he'd spend the next hour searching the village (discreetly) to see if there were any pilfered batteries or masks left behind when the humans visited. Let's say he has two hours from when the mask starts flashing to change it out. And where, oh where, does he wind up when he's got a half-hour left?

Spider was not panicking. Because, when a human panicked, they breathed faster and wasted more air. Norm told him that, so it had to be true. But, he'd checked everywhere he could think of and . . . nothing. There was no shack, no Norm or Max to run to before his timer ran out. No humans. Only him. And in a matter of . . . fuck, twenty minutes, he was going to die just like a human.

He sat slumped on the beach, looking out into the water and trying his best not to openly sob. He didn't want to die crying like a little baby. It was not working out well for him. At least, he'd have a good view when he died.

"Child? What is wrong?"

Spider flinched, looking up with wide eyes at the clan leader. He'd only talked to Tonowari once, when Jake had introduced him. Of course, given his spectacular luck, the man would find him when he was on death's doorstep.

With a sniffle, he held up his beeping pack. "It's almost out. Twenty minutes."

The man frowned down, grasping the device carefully. "And that is why you're so upset? Because, you don't wish to go into the village for a new one? Did something happen? Someone make you feel unwelcome?"

"There is no new mask." There was also no home to go back to. "That was my only one."

With a cut-off gasp, he pulled Spider to his feet. He marched the boy through the village and into what he recognized as the healer's marui. The Tsahik was mixing something, but she stood as soon as they entered.

"Tonowari?" She asked, stepping closer. "What happened? Is he hurt?"

"His mask, where's the spare?"

Wordlessly, the woman pulled a mask from one of the many baskets, easily connecting the tubing and turning it on. Like, she'd done it before. Spider had no time to ask why she had such a thing before she was right in front of him.

"Take a deep breath." She ordered, unlatching the straps of his mask before pulling it off. Just as quickly, the new one was secured. Spider hadn't even moved.

I think that even before deciding to adopt Spider, Tonowari and Ronal would probably make sure he had spare masks and check what food he could/couldn't eat. Like, as soon as they realize the Sully's aren't caring for him, they'd probably subconsciously take responsibility for him. Because, he was just a kid, really. And kids were clumsy and careless and needed help, needed parents. Anoung and Tsireya, despite being independent and skilled, still needed their parents sometimes. Let their mother do their hair and insisted on their father de-gutting their catches. And Spider— Spider is fragile. He's skilled and smart and quick on his feet, but he's a human surrounded by Na'vi. Not to mention, one wrong move and he's left with a cracked mask. And what if he eats the wrong food, mistakes one fruit for another and ends up poisoned?

This ended up way longer that I thought it would be, lol. But, I really love these types of fics and if anyone has any recs or wants to hear more, my comment section is open. XD

I had this idea of Tonowari and Ronal keeping Spider as a "ward" to keep a close eye on him, only to realize that something inside him has shattered.

Tonowari and Ronal make the deliberate decision to take Spider in as a sort of ward, not out of kindness, but to keep a close eye on the human and ensure he doesn’t burn down their village or is left to his own devices to cause trouble. Jake practically falls over himself agreeing to the arrangement, which leaves Tonowari somewhat baffled by how quickly he relinquishes the boy into their care.

But the real shock comes once Spider is living in their home, constantly under their watch. With the boy in such close proximity, day and night, Tonowari and his family see firsthand how traumatized he is. There are dark circles under his eyes, his skin is a sickly shade of pale, he flinches at the slightest raised hand, barely speaks, often stares into nothing, and eats next to nothing.

Tonowari has Spider shadow either himself or Ronal to keep him close and occupied, but the boy moves like a wraith, so quiet that they often have to glance over their shoulders just to confirm he’s still there. It’s… concerning. Human or not, aren’t children supposed to be loud, energetic, and full of life? From what Jake told them, Spider was always underfoot and excitable, eager to prove himself. What happened to this child to make him a shadow of his former self?

Against Tonowari’s better judgment, his heart fills with pain for the child. He was not the boy’s father, and the boy was not even of his people. But Tonowari had seen enough in this world to know a broken spirit. This was not a child who needed discipline or containment or judgment. This was a child who needed healing.

That night, Tonowari spoke to Ronal outside, his voice low but firm. “He does not need to be watched. He needs to be cared for. He needs to be taught to live again.” Ronal was quiet for a long time before she gave a small hum of affirmation. “Then we begin tomorrow.”

Basically, it's Tonowari and his family finding out about Spider’s time with the RDA and being so disgusted and horrified that Spider goes from being a "ward" to a possible future adopted son. Maybe? Spider doesn't quite trust authority or paternal figures and is so used to taking care of himself that he's suspicious of Tonowari and Ronal's sudden change of heart towards him. Even worse, he's bottling up his grief over losing Neteyam because he feels that the cursed son of Quaritch doesn't deserve to mourn.

Ahhhh, still thinking about a Spider and Tsireya friendship because I love the idea of these two just vibing because they get each other.

-) Tsireya becomes someone Spider can breathe around, not literally, since he wears a mask, but emotionally. She's calm in a way that soothes his inner anxiety. He’s so used to chaos and danger and being misunderstood that her presence feels like the calm after the storm.

-) For Tsireya, Spider becomes someone she can be unfiltered with. Around her family and clan, Tsireya is often held to a higher standard. With Spider, she can laugh loudly, roll her eyes, tease, etc.

-) They develop nonverbal signals: a raised eyebrow, a subtle hand motion, or a look that means “You good?”, “Let’s get out of here”, or “I’ve got you.”

-) Spider likes to playfully mimic her voice when she gets serious, and when he does, she chucks a little shell at him. It hits perfectly.

-) They have a long-running competition to see who can sneak up on the other more times in a week. Tsireya usually wins. But when Spider does get her, it’s with flair, like jumping down from a tree and accidentally kicking sand everywhere. They have a nice, long laugh at that.

-) Spider once showed Tsireya Earth stuff Norm kept, like stickers and bubble wrap. Tsireya was obsessed with the bubble wrap, and the two sat together for hours popping it in silence as if in a trance. Tonowari had to pry it out of their hands because the popping sounds could be heard throughout the village, driving everybody crazy.

-) If Tsireya is in a bad mood, Spider pretends not to notice and will immediately start doing something dumb or dramatic until she cracks a smile.

-) One time, they tried to race each other backward just to see if it was possible. It was not. They both tumbled in the sand and laughed so hard that their sides ached.

Posting with permission from the artist, yodowdydon!

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I don't know where I'm going with this, but I wanted to try my hand at sci-fi/horror and came up with the idea of Eywa having enough and blessing Spider with the ability to turn humans into living plants or trees so that their bodies will restore what was destroyed by their bombs and fire. Spider keeps his power secret so that he'll have an easier time fulfilling Eywa's will without disruption or judgment. So far, he's doing a damn good job and with each successful death, grows stronger.

Here's just a teeny piece of what I have so far.

The first body wasn’t the worst.

Jake had seen enough death to be numb to it. But the more they found, the more that numbness cracked, replaced by something he'd forgotten.

Fear.

One soldier was still standing, his posture too rigid, too unnatural. His skin had gone pale, his veins blackened with something that pulsed beneath the surface like twisting roots. Thin green tendrils had erupted from his fingertips, curling toward the sunlight as if reaching for something unseen. His mouth was open in a frozen scream, but no sound would ever escape. His eyes, once human, had been overtaken by blooming petals as if the forest itself had bloomed through him.

Another body lay sprawled nearby, its flesh cracked open. Vines coiled through its ribcage, wrapping around the exposed bone, flowers sprouting where there should have been blood. A grotesque, living sculpture.

A warning.

Neytiri covered her mouth, her ears pinned back in horror. “This is not the work of Eywa,” she whispered, voice shaking.

A fractured Sully family would add so much depth to the story, forcing each character to evolve beyond their chosen roles.

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING I JUST POSTED SERIOUSLY! This is me just theorizing what might happen in Avatar 3, 4, and 5.

Lo’ak’s Hero’s Journey: Lo’ak has always struggled in the shadow of his father and older brother, feeling like a disappointment because he can't measure up to them. If he embarks on a hero’s journey, he could finally reach his full potential. Perhaps by the end, he could surpass Jake, not by being a better warrior, but by being a leader who understands both humans and Na’vi on a deeper level. He becomes less hot-headed and more diplomatic while embodying certain traits of his grandparents and is guided by Neyteyam's memory.

Kiri’s Spiritual Journey: Kiri’s connection to Eywa is stronger than anything we’ve seen before—almost godlike. I love the idea of her becoming a Jesus-like figure, growing in power but also struggling with the burden of it. What if she learns how to become one with Eywa in ways even the Na’vi don’t understand? Maybe she's Eywa herself. But the more powerful she grows, the more enemies she racks up because there might be some Na'vi who reject Eywa and others who won't take too kindly to Kiri's ascension because of her demon blood, which could spark a religious war that the RDA uses to get the Na'vi to fight among themselves. Even better, Kiri could slowly become more and more detached from the physical world and would rely on Spider to keep her grounded because she's closest to him.

Spider’s Journey of Self-Discovery: Spider’s arc is especially interesting because he’s torn between two worlds. He’s spent his whole life being treated as an outsider by both species, and maybe the third movie puts him in a position where he decides what he wants. His journey wouldn’t be about proving himself to others anymore—it would be about making peace with who he is. Also, if he does breathe the toxic air of Pandora because of Kiri, he could be the poster boy for humans back on Earth, desperate to settle on Pandora and believing that they can because of Spider, sparking huge repercussions for both sides. Spider may also learn to stop allowing others to define his path or he's given the chance to become an avatar, but ultimately rejects it because he loves himself for who he is.

Tuk’s Forced Maturity: Tuk, the youngest, would have the most tragic arc if she were left behind. With her family scattered in the wind, she would have to grow up quickly, learning that childhood is a luxury in times of war. Maybe she becomes an apprentice to someone unexpected—an elder, a rogue warrior, or even a human scientist who teaches her things no one else knows. She could become a bridge between the old ways and the future, embodying the lessons her family failed to learn before. Maybe she stays with Tonowari and his family, adopting their ways fully because they're all she has left.

Neytiri’s Crusade and Healing: Neytiri, consumed by grief and rage, would either become the new leader of the Ash Clan or go return to the forests without her family so that she can prepare her people for the next war. The Ash Clan is rumored (and confirmed) to be more brutal and warlike, and Neytiri, who has lost so much, would see them as a means to finally drive out the humans once and for all. But war is never clean. Maybe she starts to lose herself, becoming the very thing she hated—merciless, driven by vengeance rather than love. In the end, she realizes that this path doesn’t bring her peace. Maybe she goes on a journey of healing and confronts her trauma, which leads her to reconnect with Eywa and make peace with Spider, where the two come to an understanding as equals rather than family. But more importantly, she makes peace with herself and rises like a phoenix from the ashes, guided by the spirits and memories of her family. I firmly believe that independence from Jake and going her own way for a bit will help her heal. (I am praying that she has a deep and satisfying arc because if anyone deserves peace, it's her.)

Jake Disappearing and Haunting the Narrative: Having Jake disappear rather than be a central figure in the fourth movie would be fascinating. Maybe he goes off on a mysterious mission, searching for something that could turn the tide of the war. Or maybe he’s presumed dead, leaving only his legacy behind. The Sullys would feel his absence like a ghost haunting them, each one dealing with it in their own way. And if he returns, it would be as a changed man or Na'vi—someone who takes a step back to allow the new generation to step forward.

Spider, struggling with his spirituality and faith in Eywa as a human boy born on Pandora, a planet he cannot neurally connect to:

Varang: