TL;DR Plans Are Useless But Planning Is Indespensable (Eisenhower)

Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis

Woo, first post, and its about Heathcliff. Alright straight to the point. Its as the title says, this is a Sin Analysis on all of Heathcliff’s IDs. This was made awhile ago before R Corp. Meursault was revealed. And yes, that does somewhat have something to do with R Corp. Heath. Anyway, this was made using @lu-is-not-ok‘s guide to Sin Analysis….mainly because its much more in-depth than what I could have done on my own. This doesn’t include any E.G.O. because my brain can only do so much. But here it is, my official Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis and how R Corp. Heath has the weirdest Sin affinities when looking at the ID in this light.

LCB Sinner Heathcliff

Envy - Heathcliff’s whole thing is Revenge. His bat has Revenge written on it, clearly showing that getting revenge is his thing. This sin showcases that he wants to get revenge on someone, something or multiple people/things. Due to him being a backstreets kid, he most likely wants revenge on the rich, though its also possible, he wants revenge on whatever got him into his position as a Sinner. This is unlikely to be Catherine due to his last sin affinity.

Wrath - Wrath is about as obvious as Envy. Heathcliff was born in the backstreets and grew up there. His Wrath is his want to defy the rich and prove that even those born in the backstreets can be as good as them, similar to Rodion.

Lust - Lust once again, is obvious. In all honesty, base Heathcliff has pretty basic and obvious sin affinities. The reason that Heathcliff has a Lust sin affinity is due to his want to be with Catherine again.

N Corp. Kleinhammer Heathcliff

Envy - N Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Envy can be seen in two ways. First is the same as Base Heathcliff. He wants to get revenge on the rich for being a backstreets kid. The other is a sort of distorted want for revenge against those with prosthetics. This would fall in line with N Corps. Ideals, but this also falls in line with another N Corp. ID, N Corp. Faust. NFaust also has envy as one of her sins. N Corp. Faust seemingly has no reason to want revenge on anything, but she could want a form of retribution against those with prosthetics, making N Corp. Heathcliff have the same reasoning behind his Envy sin affinity.

Gloom - N Corp. Heathcliff’s Gloom sin affinity represents his past. This version of Heathcliff seems to be much more sad and depressed than most of Heathcliff’s IDs. This is due to both the events that led to his separation with Catherine and his current situation, that being his brainwashing at N Corps. hands. He actively fights against the brainwashing but is slowly failing, as seen through multiple of his voice lines and dialogue.

Lust - Lust for N Corp. Heathcliff would actually be the same as Base Heathcliff. It represents his want and desire to return to Catherine. He directly calls out to them on his Death and even mentions in his Extra Conditions dialogue, that if he keeps this up he will be able to go back one day, almost certainly meaning his want to be with Catherine again.

Shi Association South Section 5 Heathcliff

Lust - Shi Heathcliff is interesting as he shares all the same sin affinities as Base Heathcliff but reversed. Lust for Shi Heathcliff seems to represent his Lust for combat and death, similar to Ryoshu. He doesn’t seem to have any desire to be with Catherine again, if this version of him ever met or was with them in the first place.

Wrath - Shi Heathcliff’s version of Wrath could represent that he doesn’t really like how the Shi operate. He prefers getting personal with his kills and gets bored with the typical fast kills. He would rather do his own thing than actually be an assassin.

Envy - Shi Heathcliff still has a bit of his Revenge attributes in him. He mentions how he will make another Shi member pay for having slept through their alarm. This shows that this aspect of him still exists but to a much lesser degree than his other IDs. Its likely that Shi Heathcliff is still a backstreets kid but it isnt made clear if he wants the same revenge on the rich as his Base ID does.

R Corp. 4th Pack Rabbit Heathcliff

Wrath - Wrath is interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff, as it almost seems to be the opposite of him. He doesn’t care about doing anything other than fight, which is exactly what he exists for as a R Corp. soldier. He likes what he does so its interesting that he has a sin that represents defiance.

Gluttony - Gluttony in context of R Corp. Heathcliff is similar to Lust for Shi Heathcliff. They both want more combat, they want to fight and kill more enemies. R Corp. Heathcliff is a soldier, his existence is combat, even more so due to him most likely being one of R Corps. Clone soldiers.

Envy - Envy is also interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff. Due to him most likely being a clone, he shouldn’t have any reason to want revenge or retribution for anything done to him. He almost certainly doesn’t want to be with Catherine and definitely doesn’t even know who they are. He has everything he wants or cares about. 

Its interesting that R Corp. Heathcliff has two sin affinities that seem to go against his existence. Maybe this is an example of our version of a sinner bleeding into a mirror worlds version, meaning that R Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Wrath and Envy are actually Base Heathcliff’s.

Addendum: 7/11/23 - Since originally writing this, R Corp. Meursault has been revealed, and through his trailer, a pseudo-confirmation that the R Corp. IDs are indeed clones…….which brings in so many other questions when it comes to them, but does make what i said about RHeathcliff, his sin affinities and him being a clone a bit more concrete……it makes it more confusing that he has these affinities since hes a clone and doesnt/shouldnt care about things the other Heath IDs do.

Lobotomy E.G.O::Sunshower Heathcliff

Envy - Envy for Sunshower Heathcliff represents his disdain for Technology. As a member of the Technology Liberation Alliance, he wishes to “liberate” all technology and return to a time before it. But he doesn’t seem to truly care about this.

Gloom - Gloom is easy to understand for Sunshower Heathcliff. All of his friends have died in some way. He doesn’t have anyone and is alone. He roamed the backstreets before joining the TLA and currently does. Its also possible that parts of his sadness are brought about by his E.G.O equipment, as he mentions having cold and dark feelings rush into him when he first put on the E.G.O equipment.

Sloth - Sloth is also easy. Sunshower Heathcliff mentions sleep and sleeping a lot. He is constantly thinking about falling asleep or finding some dark alleyway to stay in, away from everything and everyone else. He doesn’t truly care about anything other than sleeping, after the death of his friends.

You’re still going to get criticized, so you might as well do whatever the fuck you want.

Kathleen Hanna  (via vvolf-souls)

Would it make sense for clapper to have antenatal/postpartum depression vibe? not bulimia, as the brain+spinal cord in the sack implies a fetus, along with no overtures to the idea of eating (nary a gluttony in sight, canto IV says hi). There is A LOT of mechanical weight/attention to the sack. Even the egg form is all sac, basically. Like, why go out of your way to modify wrath/gloom resistances and tie them to something breakable? (not complaining, spicy design.) Wiki goes into extensive detail about it's skill rotations, and without major interruption it's roughly: Blood Sac counter goes 1->3, then Blood Cannon, then it moves to Fluid Sac. Without blood, it heals.

Hence, despair/madness as a byproduct of creating something -> JUSTICE!! for Don, new knowledge for Faust?

Do you do psychoanalyzing on other characters besides Yi Sang and Hong Lu? If so I’d like to hear you talk about Don and Faust, and why you think they share 2 egos (Telepole and Fluid Sac)

I mean! I can certainly try! Hong Lu and Yi Sang are just. I guess my field of expertise??? Since I care the most about those two??? But I can certainly try to analyze some other characters, though it might not be able to be as specific and detailed as I am when analyzing my favorites. Hope you understand!

Now then. Let's do this. Under cut we go as usual.

Fluid Sac

Let's start with the one we know less about, aka Headless Ichthys. In fact, we know... very, very little about Headless Ichthys.

Due to Meursault being the one to write the logs about this abnormality, we only get information on its physical characteristics, such as it having lost its head, and that there's something inside its sack that is said to bear resemblence to either a flower or a human nervous system.

That's it. That's all the definitive info we have on this abnormality. We can assume that it has Some religious significance due to its name, Ichthys, being the name of a religious fish symbol, but that doesn't help too much.

There is something interesting I want to note here, and that's the thing inside its sack. The fact that it's unclear whether it resembles a flower or a human nervous system is interesting... Because that mimics what Lunacy looks like. While Lunacy is described as rose-shaped by its Inventory description, the full Lunacy icon can also be interpreted as a brain on a brainstem.

I suppose, if you wanted to dig deep enough, the implications of it containing a symbol akin to Lunacy and having lost its head could could be interpreted as the abnormality being a symbol of a descent into madness. Which, honestly, that's the best I got from what little we have.

Because of just how little lore we have on the Headless Ichthys, unfortunately I can't go too in depth on Don and Faust with it in mind... But I'll still try.

Fluid Sac is a Gloom E.G.O, and though Gloom is one of those Sins I'm not entirely sure of, it does seem to represent taking actions due to one's built up negative emotions.

The main base E.G.O examples we have are Snagharpoon, which has Ishmael follow her compulsion to keep searching for "That bastard", and Land of Illusion, which implies that Hong Lu retreats from reality into his own dream world under heavy emotional stress.

As such, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Fluid Sac signifies something that caused horrible emotional stress to both Don and Faust, which would then kickstart their descent into madness. In more specific terms, this would be heroic delusions for Don and single-minded mad scientist-esque pursuit of knowledge for Faust.

As a brief sidenote, this would align quite well with the visual design differences between the two. Though the E.G.O outfits they wear are extremely similar, all the way down to both of them having green tints in their hair and fin decorations in the exact same spots, there are two notable differences.

One - the shape of the weapon. Don's weapon is shaped like a miniature Headless Ichthys clutching onto a perfectly round sack-orb. It looks almost more like a toy rather than a weapon. Faust's weapon is not only shaped almost perfectly like Headless Ichthys's sack, it also seems to have the same properties, as it bursts during Faust's Awakening attack animation.

Two - the article of clothing that mimics the Ichthys's hand-flippers. For Don, it's a cape-like piece of clothing that looks more like something you'd see on a kid's hero costume. For Faust, it's seemingly anatomically-correct recreations of the flippers that are attached to her jacket.

Both of those I think reinforce the idea of Don and Faust indulging in their methods of madness. Child-like obsession with heroism for Don (using toys and costumes), and endless scientific pursuits for Faust (only someone studying the abnormality closely could replicate its anatomy in this much detail).

It's a bit hard to tell anything from their dialogue lines as they are somewhat generic (my unrelated theory on that is that Fluid Sac is one of the first E.G.Os designed, based on its dialogue lines not having much to do with its abnormality, and due to its attack animations being uncharacteristically sparse in actual frame-to-frame animation), but they do seem to work as good reflections of Don and Faust in general.

Their Awakening lines seem to reflect their general attitudes, with Don's being jovial yet quick to resort to violence, and Faust's being self-assured and seemingly trying to predict all outcomes.

Their Corroded lines on the other hand could be a reflection of their attitudes after their descent into madness began. Don's single-minded "...Crush them." could be a reflection of how she views morality as black and white, and thus believes all that she considers 'villains' should be crushed by her. Likewise, Faust's line here implies that she's willing to do anything, even leave herself completely empty by 'disgorging everything', if it means she reaches what she's looking for.

Looking at the Sin Resources, both Faust and Don require Gloom and Lust to use Fluid Sac, and while Don also uses Pride, Faust uses Envy instead.

I already mentioned what I think Gloom means for Fluid Sac, and I think it being a requirement further reinforces it here. Both Don and Faust need to be acting under severe emotional stress to start their descent into madness.

Lust as a sin seems to represent acting according to one's desires, or more specifically, indulging in them. It also tends to have slight spiritual connotations in Limbus, making it the Sin of acting for the sake of some form of personal fulfillment as well.

Using it for Fluid Sac would make sense with the descent into madness interpretation. For both Don and Faust, their forms of madness are them overindulging in something they find personally fulfilling - heroism for Don, science for Faust.

Don's unique Sin requirement here is Pride. I already went into detail on what Pride as a Sin means in Limbus in the Dimension Shredder post, but to recap, Pride represents actions taken for their personal benefits, while ignoring their negative consequences on either other people or oneself.

This very much represents Don's madness quite well. Her heroic acts are rooted in what she personally perceives as doing good, and she completely ignores the collateral damage that she may cause in the process. Her willful ignorance of the harm she inflicts on others is one of the main things that led her to her personal form of madness.

Faust's unique Sin requirement here is Envy. Now, I won't go into detail on Envy just yet, as it's better saved for Telepole, but in very basic summary, it represents actions done in reaction to other people and their actions.

While there is still much we don't know about Faust, the inclusion of Envy as a requirement for her Fluid Sac implies that the root of her madness actually comes from someone else. There's not enough info for us to speculate on more details... but something tells me this might have to do with a certain Faustian Bargain, if you catch my drift.

So, that's Fluid Sac! For something with so little to dissect, it ended up leading to quite a good bit of analysis anyway! Call me Game Theory cause I'm about to put MatPat out of a job.

Telepole

Alright, let's once again start with the abnormality itself - Alleyway Watchdog.

The funny thing is that the Watchdog has the opposite problem to the Ichthys, as while the fish had very little lore, the Watchdog has a decent amount, but it's written by Yi Sang and as such it's hard to tell how much of its logs are facts, and how much is Yi Sang being Yi Sang and projecting onto the dog.

If there is one thing that is a definitive fact, it's that lack of being able to control oneself and being unable to tell who is controlling who is a recurring theme for this abnormality. The fact that it's unclear if the dog is in control of its own actions calls back to it, and the further muddling of what actually is in control of it only further adds to that theme.

It's unclear if the charred person on its back is controlling the dog, or if it's simply along for the ride unable to do anything to stop it, or if it is also under the control of something else. It's unclear if electricity is what is directly controlling the dog, or if it's something Yi Sang is projecting onto it due to his own experiences.

With that in mind, let's look at the three Sinners who have this E.G.O - Don, Faust, and Heathcliff. Now, I won't be looking at Heathcliff's case too closely, since this is meant to focus on Don and Faust, but I will be bringing him up when talking about Telepole on a general level, so that we have the biggest sample size possible.

In this case, having the Telepole E.G.O would imply these three have some issues when it comes to control, whether it's they themselves lacked control in their life, or whether it's their own degree of perceived control isn't as it seems. Since neither of those three have had their Cantos released yet, it's impossible for me to tell what exactly is going on here, but this is something to keep in mind.

Now, let's talk about Envy, as that's the Sin damage that all of the Telepoles deal. Envy appears to represent actions one takes as a reaction to what others do. This can take any form, whether it's revenge or following orders or being provoked or anything really. What's important here is that the action taken is a Direct Response to someone else.

The only base E.G.O that deals Envy damage is Heathcliff's Bodysack, which represents his impulsive and likely violent reaction to whatever Cathy did to him.

This all fits very nicely with the nature of Alleyway Watchdog, and Telepole E.G.O as a whole. The Watchdog's actions are all reactions to something else controlling it. Likewise, those using the Telepole E.G.O have their actions be influenced or even controlled by someone else.

Their Awakening lines (since there's nothing to analyze when it comes to their Corroded howls I don't think) all reflect a certain part of their personality, potentially implying that something about that is due to the influence of someone else.

Heathcliff's line expresses his impulsively violent tendencies, Don's ties back to her blind heroism, and Faust's has a clinical, detached feel to it.

As for Sin Resources, both Faust and Heathcliff use Envy, Wrath, and Lust, while Don exchanges Lust for Gloom.

Envy as a Sin Resource here once again ties back to the themes of control, implying that for all three, the actions they take are not entirely Just their own. Whether it's provokation or suggestion or something else, for all three of them, their actions are being encouraged, if not directly controlled, by someone else entirely.

Wrath is... hard to analyze. Partially because on first glance it seems to act as a shorthand for fire damage, and partially because no base E.G.O deals Wrath damage. My best guess based on other E.G.Os is that Wrath represents actions done out of self-righteousness. It's the "I deserve to do this, I DARE to do this." of Sins, in my opinion.

It's not necessarily tied to literal anger, as its name might imply, but rather a deeper reason that usually leads to anger - that being the idea that something should or shouldn't happen simply because you wish it so. After all, the most common reason for anger is for something to not go your way. Think children throwing tantrums over their toy being taken away, or a gamer smashing their keyboard over getting outplayed.

With all that being said, Wrath being used for Telepole could have several meanings. It could represent defiance, the idea that the Sinners act out because they believe they deserve better than the person trying to control them. It could also represent temptation, falling under someone else's control or provokation due to believing that they deserve something they don't have or to do something they can't without falling for it.

Now onto the more unique Sin resource requirements. Faust and Heathcliff both require Lust, a Sin representing indulging one's desires and seeking personal fulfillment. This would fit both Heathcliff and Faust, as their Telepoles seem to allude to the things they are already impulsive about - mindless violence for Heathcliff, and pursuit of knowledge for Faust. The actions they are being controlled or provoked to do are things they already wish to indulge in. Perhaps in their case, they are specifically being tempted into doing something, rather than being directly forced.

This however, is different for Don. Don's Telepole requires Gloom, which is a Sin representing actions done out of succumbing to negative emotions. This paints the actions she's controlled or provoked into comitting in a different light. Unlike Heathcliff or Faust, she isn't being tempted by personal fulfillment. No, in her case it's an expression of emotional stress. Perhaps in her case the control is much more forceful, causing her to act out, or perhaps her actions are a reaction to something bad happening to someone she knows. Either way, it's quite intriguing to note.

Unlike my Fluid Sac analysis, which I could get a little bit more detailed on thanks to touching on a facet of Don and Faust's personalities that are clearly evident, Telepole seems to more so reference their pasts, something that as of right now we simply have no access to.

I expect reaching Heathcliff's Canto will help a ton in this specific case, as it will help analyze the rest of the Telepoles thanks to being able to compare what it seems to reference in his revealed past to potentially similar events in both Don and Faust's pasts.

The stereotype of the ugly, unfuckable feminist exists for a reason – because it’s still the last, best line of defence against any woman who is a little too loud, a little too political. Just tell her that if she goes on as she is, nobody will love her. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve always believed that part of the point of feminist politics – part of the point of any sort of radical politics – is that some principles are more important than being universally adored, particularly by the sort of men who would prefer women to smile quietly and grow our hair out

If you’re a feminist you’ll be called a man-hater. You don’t need rebranding (via nothingman)

life choices

#But seriously I've seen more Jesus slash fanart in the past month than I have my entire life

honey it's been a week.

who lives who dies who tells your story

would Jouno scarejumping everyone in a Light Snow car bolster the point? that noone remembers gun children would kind of mean the fluff action is performed properly - enjoyable in the moment only to be forgotten as a mostly irrelevant point.

to salvage the setup: real selective killing would be in the past, and enough fuckups/pressure would have him be progressively more extremist about it. People do make reads on how BSD is absurdist at it's core - which would mean no plans perfectly coming together*. Plus, while he appears to be opportunistic about how genocide is carried out (DA, DoA), the primary plan seems to be the Book - and anyone with the book can retcon everything they did in the past. That said - and wouldn't it be funny if neither of us read Dazai's Entrance Exam - part of it is probably to signal Dostoy is way WAY further gone than that particular obstacle.

the post seems like noticing a novel Franchise Original Sin: sometimes it's character driven drama and sometimes it's just cool shit with abilities, and the bits of Meursault you dislike are an extension of the latter? Death Note jungle gym & dumb nonsense chatter to lower tension for Action Flick Shit elsewhere, if i remember properly?

*would all of this be a problem if Dazai fucked up badly in the main manga? earlier, hopefully?

At what point does a character become so evil that they're just irredeemable? Because I can ignore the Meursault arc by setting my story before it, remove Fyodor from some of the more catastrophic decisions made by the DOA and Guild, which at least bring him back down to some sort of relatability but... how can you redeem a man who manipulated a little girl into blowing herself up? Who put guns in the hands of children? It's so... evil. I can write Fyodor as a previously mostly good person, who took a horribly dark spiral into a delusional genocide mission. It's hard, but I can, so long as he doesn't succeed very far. Even killing Karma, while still an evil action, is questionable, debatable, to the reader. Because you can understand why Fyodor did it: he saw ending Karma's life as the only way to save him from a lifetime of torment and sin. And the reader can question how much they agree with that decision. And that's fine; I like that. But the little girl? It's the same principle, in theory: Fyodor could justify it to himself by saying that he wanted to save her from the sin surrounding her, to send her to God before she had the chance to sin. But that's where it breaks down. Because it becomes such a flimsy excuse, trying to mask such a massive evil.

Maybe I'd take out the kids with guns. That's too much, unless I'm missing something. Have the long walk through the tunnels with Atsushi and Kunikida be tense instead, them peering around every corner, ready for a harrowing fight. Kunikida's gun held tight, Atsushi tensed and ready to tiger out. Both peering through the darkness, only to reach a clearing in which stood a tiny little girl, hands clutched in front of her, scared, with some strange kind of necklace. And then in the next horrifying moment they realise: it's not a necklace, but grenades. Then the scene plays out from there. Not only would this be more impactful as a scene (in my opinion), it'd also characterise Fyodor in a different, much more interesting and nuanced way (in my opinion).

Because in that situation, it's only the little girl he's justifying to himself. And it's a bad justification, clearly paper-thin, but he believes it. And that makes the underlying horror and twist of Fyodor's character all the better--now that you've trimmed the fluff, that one point speaks so much more. You've emphasised that Fyodor's the type of person who's willing to manipulate a little girl into blowing herself up, but you've also shown that he put deliberate thought and care into that decision. It was to break Kunikida, but it was also to save her, to end her life before she fell into sin. And you would remember, because of how impactful the scene would be (whereas I'd bet a lot of people don't even remember Fyodor had gun children).

I think that's a problem the entirety of BSD (or maybe just manga in general) has. There's too much fluff action. It waters down the truly impactful scenes and breaks down the interest in characters like Fyodor. Because when he's killing very selectively, not only can you show how he rationalises those deaths for the sake of his plans and have that not be broken by continuity, but you get so much more out of those deaths. And if nothing else changed, and Fyodor was the only antagonist who didn't kill wantonly, imagine how different that would make him feel. His plans by their very nature would be new, interesting, contrasting. An antagonist who uses precise and measured deaths, just a pinpoint here, to achieve a much bigger effect on the characters than even the destruction of Yokohama by the Guild, would be something both new and far more terrifying.

And it would show how well Fyodor understood the ADA, that with just one death he could shake them so much--and how little they knew him in return would be very worrying. Imagine how much better his conversations with Dazai--the discussion of saving people would have so much meaning if Fyodor wasn't a hypocrite who killed people for no reason. If Dazai says that people are worth saving, and Fyodor agrees, even though they've entirely different meanings behind those words, and the meaning is actually there- imagine the subtext, the intrigue, the actual good writing that could come of that. God, I really wish it was so.

Check for understanding:

What tone does the phrase 'fun fact!' give to the next statement?

Why did crabs-but-better phrase the extra time as 'forbidden'?

How does capitalizing 'Watch Out', as opposed to 'watch out', change the interpretation of these words?

What could have caused amiru-shubfeast to reblog with commentary?

What does the use of exclamation marks imply about their mood and mental state?

What formatting choices did their followup post use? Why?

Discuss with a mutual: what are the short and long term effects of sleep deprivation? Have you experienced any?

@reading-comp-posting

fun fact! did you know that you can gain extra ‘forbidden time’ by staying up late in the night? but Watch Out

The Tick: letters get carved on it, visible from earth LOCAL 58 TV: implied to be an alien colony? A Creature? I Wanna Be The Guy: moon dropping on you is one of it's 'lol u ded' moments

List Of Media Where Something Fucked Up Happens To The Moon

despicable me (moon theft)

miraculous ladybug (moon split in half)

hermitcraft (moon big)

feel free to add

they must really have feared fyodor's power

Ever think - most of that last bit in Muersault didn't need to happen? Because if Chuuya is never a vampire and Dazai knows that, then once Chuuya's THERE, the rest is a pantomime. Chuuya had more than enough power to hail bullets into Fyodor the moment Gogol's 'game' began.

So why didn't they?

I think they had to be really afraid of Fyodor's power. All they know is that it works by touch, and it's lethal. Chuuya's power also requires him to touch things to exert control over them. They must've been afraid that the powers would cancel each other out if used directly that way, which would introduce too many unknowns to 'can we kill fyodor now'.

I think that's why they saved the finishing blow for "when we have control of the vampires". Because then, if it was an always-on kind of power like Dazai's, whatever it was would activate when the Random Vampire Mook attacked.

Of course, they couldn't KNOW they'd get control of the vampires, but really, if they didn't they were screwed anyway? So I guess they figured eh, in that event we leave Chuuya around as some kind of secret double agent and wait for the next clear shot. Or something.