And NPR Did A Segment On Fritz Faber Mentioned In Other Reblogs. That Part Alone Starts At 28:23, But

FEMA is doing an emergency alert test on all TVs, radios, and cell phones on October 4, 2023, at approximately 2:20pm ET.

If you live in the US and you have a phone you need to keep secret for any reason, make sure that it is turned off at this time.

Yes, I'm doing this months in advance, and yes, my blog has very little reach, but I figure better to post about it more than less.

Please reblog and add better tags than mine, I'm bad at tags.

OP now you made me think; it's been a hot while since i've read C&P but the general vibe i remember is: the plot: chill slice of life the narration: 'if i agree will that be suspicious can that be tied back to me will NOT agreeing be sus-'

so! how do you make yourself hard to remember/as beneath suspicion as possible? 100% bland politeness, no personal details*, no strong expressions/gestures… Gogol as a distraction is a bonus, and while we have no proof of freeze response(s), we not not have them either. these tend to happen if the subject cannot either run or fight. alternatively: when the brain is stuck trying to find the best course of action ;>

*refering to interactions outside of Dazai

i wish they added a little bit more of raskolnikov in fyodor cuz how much more funny would it b if he just kept having random outburst due to paranoia and guilt or if he kept lashing out whenever ppl r slightly nice to him I kinda wish asagiri had made him more of a anxious freak I would’ve enjoyed his character a little more and he would’ve been a lot easier to relate to instead of having him b so detached

like it would’ve been hilarious to watch his goofy ass keep switching between completely cold and calculating to nervously sweating his ass off and desperately trying not to show it

idk I just love when they give villains silly traits instead of making them seem so untouchable and rigid he’s still a cool character though

Spoilers for the ending of the Mersault arc in Bungou stray dogs season 5.

3

2.

1.

.

Going back and reading the Mersault arc again.

My favourite little detail foreshadowing the twist at the end...is Chuuya's hands.

No I'm not kidding.

Chuuya's outfit has changed from what it usually is.

He's not wearing his gloves.

For most of the arc he's in, his hands remain in his pockets.

When fighting Rimbaud years ago Chuuya said to him:

"Wanna know why I've been keeping both my hands tucked away this whole time? It helps me stay rooted when I'm afraid I'm gonna lose myself."

It's why he takes his gloves off when he activates corruption.

But here Chuuya's hands are tucked away in his pockets, just like they were before he joined the Port Mafia.

He's still in there.

He hasn't lost himself.

The other thing I love is that while Chuuya's outfit has changed, he's still wearing his hat. The hat that Mori gave him when he joined.

It's a clear sign that he's still with the Port Mafia.

But Fyodor doesn't know Chuuya, he doesn't know the significance of his hat nor why keeping his hands tucked away mean.

Fyodor doesn't trust people.

That was his first mistake.

His second was thinking he could ever control Chuuya Nakahara.

two in one theory... i am listening very intently if you ever feel up to share it!!

Alright, so this is gonna be... as close to an Abridged explanation of the theory as I can make, because if I went off on everything about it I would end up writing a whole dissertation or five hour video essay script on this shit.

There are gonna be three main sections to this post - Hong Lu's Daiyuisms, Hong Lu's Themes of Identity and how that connects to the concept of Two in One, and the Daiyu-Baoyu theory itself.

Strap in folks.

Hong Lu's Daiyuisms

If you know anything about my theories in the earlier days of Limbus, you might know that I'm one of the very few people who was convinced Hong Lu is actually Daiyu, due to some evidence I found personally compelling. This has not changed, as we've only gotten just as much extra evidence to this as we have to him being Baoyu. So let me just speedrun through some of these points.

The Fucking Jade Eye

Ok hear me out. This is maybe the least important piece of evidence but I can never stop thinking about it. Hong Lu's jade eye? Not actually fully blue! If you look closely on most of his sprites, you can see that he actually has sectoral heterochromia, meaning his jade eye is both blue and black.

Daiyu's name, quite literally, translates to blue-black jade.

Now, you could claim that this is merely meant to be an easter egg reference to her, but... is that really Project Moon's style? After all, when people speculated on Don Quixote being Sancho or a Bloodfiend partially based on her appearance all the way back since near launch, they turned out to be right.

Hong Lu's Father

As of now, there is only one instance of Hong Lu referencing his Father in Limbus, and it's a voiceline from his Base Identity:

Now, if you know anything about DOTRC, this should already be raising some flags, because if Hong Lu was just Baoyu, he would not fucking talk like that about his Father.

In the book, Baoyu is consistently shown to be afraid of his Father, for a good reason mind you, as he's his main abuser. Baoyu would not be looking forward to introducing his friends to that man.

Even if Hong Lu was trying to downplay the abuse he's recieved, this would still not fit his pattern of behavior. When topics that genuinely bother Hong Lu come up, such as what could make him distort or how rich people would enjoy gifts made of humans, he immediately pivots and tries to avoid the topic at all cost. He would not bring up his main abuser in such a lighthearted manner, he would avoid bringing him up at all cost.

However, there is a character in DOTRC which does in fact have a more positive relationship to her Father, and would likely be the one with an opinion such as that - Daiyu. Daiyu loves her Father, and when he dies she completely disappears from the story for a bit to attend his funeral. If there was anyone who would be excited to introduce their friends to their Father, it'd be Daiyu.

Lasso Hong Lu's Corrosion

I made a whole seperate post about this, but I might as well mention it here as well for the sake of completion. The design choices made for Hong Lu which are missing for Faust are very, very Daiyu-coded.

For one, not only does Hong Lu completely turn into a flower, unlike Faust, his horse also gains a flower in its mouth. For those whose knowledge of DOTRC is zero to none, Daiyu is a reincarnation of a Flower given sentience due to being watered by the Jade. I don't think I have to be the one to connect the dots between those two pieces of info for you.

The second is how the halters become a noose for Hong Lu. This, too, is a very Daiyu thing - Rose Hunter as an Abnormality represents the inability to escape one's fate, and Daiyu's fate is to die - the Jia Family arranging a marriage between Baoyu and Baochai leads to Daiyu falling deathly ill, which in itself could be considered a part of her repaying her Debt of Tears - the debt she swore to repay to the Jade/Baoyu when she was still a Flower.

The hilarity of the fact that this E.G.O came out in the same update as Hong Lu being called Baoyu in-story is not lost on me.

Rose Sign Abnormality Log

The third Log for Rose Sign ends in a very peculiar way.

There's multiple ways one can tie Hong Lu's odd reluctance to talk about flowers and the petals. One is the obvious "he's being reminded of Daiyu because she was a Flower" connection, but there's another one.

One of the most commonly potrayed images of Daiyu relates to a scene in DOTRC where she buries fallen flower petals, weeping for and lamenting the mortality of the flowers and herself. Hong Lu's reaction here to his fellow Sinners being reduced to nothing but petals upon Rose Sign's death feels like a notable parallel to Daiyu's flower burial scene.

Like literally everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu

The title for this is a bit of an exaggeration, but at the same time. I'm serious. Kurokumo Hong Lu is perhaps the most Daiyu Identity out of all the Hong Lu Identities we have, and the way he is designed to stand out among them further makes me go insane.

Kurokumo Hong Lu's most defining trait is his attitude - he often complains about his position and how authority treats him, though he doesn't really act out against them in any major way outside of making snarky or sarcastic remarks.

This is, frankly, an extremely Daiyu thing to do. Daiyu is one of the few characters who audibly complains about her treatment in the household. For example she complains about not being given as many opportunities to show off her poetry skills as her male peers are, and she recognises how, when all the girls in the family are given flowers, she's the last one to recieve them and thus is stripped of the ability to pick, being only given the leftovers.

Then there's the whole. Everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu's visual design. Because once you realize just how Daiyu-like the Identity is, you realize just how weird he is compared to other Hong Lu Identities. I mean just look how he compares to his other Identities.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity with a blue tint to his hair in the combat sprite rather than the usual purple.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity whose hairtie is a ribbon rather than a jade ring (Liu Hong Lu technically has the ribbon in his post-uptie art, but he doesn't have it in his combat sprite so I'm not counting him).

He's the only Hong Lu Identity to not be smiling in his combat sprites.

And he's the only Hong Lu Identity (and one of only four Identities in the game) whose Idle sprite has its body facing away from the opponent rather than facing towards them.

All of those combine to make him stand out like a sore thumb in a Hong Lu Identity lineup in a way that makes it feel intentional, especially since he's also the only Hong Lu Identity with that kind of notable attitude towards authority. Other Hong Lu Identities are either obedient, don't express any opinion, or just straight up are the authority.

The Baoyu reveal is framed in a very weird way

This is, admittedly, less of a Daiyuism and more of a not-Baoyuism, but I thought it'd be important to mention nonetheless.

There are a lot of things about Canto 7's reveal of Hong Lu's name being Baoyu that are very strange, especially compared to how the Canto frames Don Quixote's own reveal of actually being Sancho.

For one, the timing itself - why is such an important piece of info being revealed so early? Again, compare to Donqui - she was revealed to be a Bloodfiend in the Intervallo right before Canto 7, and the Sancho reveal only came in the second half of the Canto.

For two, the framing - Donqui's reveals are treated as what they are, Major Reveals. The Baoyu reveal on the other hand happens in a single off-handed line, with nobody reacting to it in any way. Neither Hong Lu nor the other Sinners seem to hear it after all.

And mind you, it's not like Limbus is opposed to giving us important information in off-handed lines - far from it in fact. Project Moon loves shoving little bits of foreshadowing and reveals you don't realize are reveals until way later in these kinds of off-handed lines. But the way those lines are treated is still very different to how the Baoyu reveal is treated.

Usually, when there's foreshadowing in off-handed lines, it's usually either vague enough to be something a character could say regardless of context (see Yi Sang getting hung up on the Sedatives bit in Canto 2 or Ishmael's comment about Syndicates pretending to be Families foreshadowing her own history with the Middle via Queequeg) or something that is in the middle of a scene that distracts from what is actually being said (like Hong Lu's distortion foreshadowing being in the middle of an important infodump or most of everything in Canto 2 being surrounded by a comedic tone).

None of this is present for the Baoyu reveal. There's nothing to distract you from this information, as the scene is already focused on discussing Hong Lu, meaning you're already likely to be paying attention to what is being said about him. There's also no vagueness about it, there's no way you can brush it off since not only are Wei and Xichun newly introduced characters, but it's a whole ass clearcut namedrop.

The only way I can justify that reveal being there in the form it takes is that it in itself is the distraction. Think about it. Didn't I point it out earlier that this reveal came in the same update as the E.G.O with an extremely Daiyu-coded corrosion design? Wouldn't it make sense for that reveal to be there to lower your guard, make you think you resolved that mystery, only to later on reveal it wasn't the whole story after all?

Hong Lu's Themes of Identity

So this section is a bit more vague than the Daiyuism section, because Hong Lu is the type of guy to just Say Shit all the time. It's basically just. Anything that I find relevant to the idea of Hong Lu's Identity being more complex than him just being a random guy using a pseudonym, with some (but maybe not all) of them directly tying to the idea of Two in One.

"Which one is the real you?"

There are currently two seperate scenes where Hong Lu muses on the idea of someone's identity being in some way vague or obscured.

Is Dante the person or the clock? Is the dreamer the one in the dream or the one who wakes from it? Which you is the real you? Does it even matter if that you will flutter away in the end?

This idea of there being one true self. That even if there are two, there is only one of them that is actually you. Curious, right?

Face-changing dance

During the Canto 2 scene where everyone gives their reasons for whether or not they'd be a good pick for being the one to dance, Hong Lu says this.

Bian lian is a kind of dance literally translated as "face-changing". It involves rapid changes between various masks and make-up to represent different emotions or characters.

Now, it's no secret that Hong Lu is a great actor, as we see in Canto 4, and Canto 7 shows how the comparison to theatre and actors can be used to symbolize one's performance of identity, as it does for Sancho and her Don Quixote persona.

Mind you, this reveal comes in the same scene as Sinclair's dance invoking the image of a bonfire burning all through the night according to the Mariachis, a clear foreshadowing to Canto 3 and the Literal burning down of Sinclair's home.

Hong Lu knowing bian lian could be further foreshadowing to his own skills in deception, and how he too is a sort of actor, not unlike Don Quixote. On the other hand however, it could also be a more literal foreshadowing, that he (Baoyu) Quite Literally changed his face. We won't know until Canto 8, but it is an option you know.

The HamHamPangPang dish(es)

For those who don't know, here is a list of the Sinner-themed dishes that were available at HamHamPangPang.

Now, chances are, not all of them have deep meanings. I don't think there's much of a deep meaning to Heathcliff and Ishmael's dishes, I think PJM just legit don't know much about British/American cuisine so they just picked something recogniseable.

However, not all of them are meaningless picks either. Ryoshu, likely a mother, has a meal literally called "parent-and-child donburi". Don Quixote, a Bloodfiend, has a garlic-based dish. These were clearly done on purpose.

So, what does it say that Hong Lu's dish is actually two different dishes? That he's the only one whose dish is two different dishes? And it's not like the two are in some way inherently connected, since they're of completely different cuisines. Japchae is a Korean dish, not Chinese like the Mandarin rolls.

And just in case you weren't convinced that Hong Lu's choice of dishes is purposeful - another name for Mandarin rolls is flower buns, and one of the special occasions japchae is commonly served for is weddings. If you had read through the Daiyuisms section and somehow have no idea what the significance of that is, I don't know what to tell you.

The Daiyu-Baoyu Theory (finally)

So. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could still be Daiyu despite being revealed as Baoyu. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could be a Two in One deal, or that at the very least there's something more complex going on with his identity. But let's discuss the theory itself, how it would recontextualize certain things, and why I think it's an extremely fitting an thematically resonant direction for Hong Lu's Canto to go in.

The Theory

Here's what I speculate is going on.

Daiyu, just like in DOTRC, is someone who was taken in into the Jia Household rather than born in it, and who strongly connected with Baoyu upon meeting him. The two would end up forming a bond strong enough that they would be willing to die for one another (or, if they're in particularly argumentative moods, to kill themselves just to force the other to have to live a long life grieving over them - this is an actual argument they have in DOTRC and I pray to god this is adapted into Limbus because it's too fucking funny).

At some point, Baoyu either dies or is brought to near death, likely through the same circumstances as in DOTRC - being beaten by his Father. To save him, his memories and consciousness would be transferred to his eye, a process not dissimilar to the one Xichun brings up in Canto 7, and implanted into Daiyu's body, causing them to become a vessel for Baoyu. This would be how Hong Lu as he is now is created.

All of the above is the main basis for this theory. Everything else that I might speculate about, such as the exact nature of the two's relationship, Daiyu's more exact background and personality, how their pre-reincarnation lives could be adapted - all of those are things that are purely speculative and ones that I don't really expect to be actually fulfilled. The only bits that I am sure are likely to be true is what I laid out above.

So... what does it all mean for the future? I'm glad you asked!

The Recontextualization

Here's a collection of just a couple of things that Hong Lu has said or is depicted as that would be heavily recontextualized if this theory ends up being true.

Hong Lu surviving despite claiming he didn't fight back when his siblings first tried to kill him: With the context that he used to be two seperate people, the answer to how he survived is made very simple. Baoyu is the one who wasn't fighting back. Daiyu, however, could have still protected him in turn.

The red ribbon on Hong Lu's weapon: There is only one other Sinner who has a similar decoration on their weapon - Ryoshu, who also has a red ribbon on her sword, which could be easily connected to Yuzuki and her death. With the context of Hong Lu being Baoyu occupying Daiyu's body and thus effectively rendering their self non-existent, the red ribbon could be a parallel symbol - a symbol of Daiyu and their 'death'.

How Hong Lu treats his weapon in his base E.G.O: The way Hong Lu holds his weapon in the illustration is more like he's cradling another person. This could be a representation of how he feels about Daiyu's situation. Likewise, in the attack animation, he's not really attacking with the weapon itself, is he? He's simply using it to direct a ribbon (which in itself is missing in the illustration), the part that is actually the attack. If the weapon in the base E.G.O represents Daiyu, this could be a parallel to how Baoyu feels like he's merely directing Daiyu's body to attack, rather than being the one actually attacking.

The duality of Hong Lu IDs: There is a notable pattern among Hong Lu IDs, and that is the focus on his attitude to violence. When he's in a situation where he's obedient towards his Family, he's either uninterested in violence, bored of it, or otherwise given no other choice but to use it as a reprieve from boredom. However, when he's in a situation where he's disconnected from his Family or otherwise questioning the status quo, he's shown to not only be much more aggressive and violent, but to outright enjoy it. With the context of Hong Lu being composed of two people, this duality could represent each of his components - the obedient and violence-averse being more Baoyu-like, while the questioning and violence-favoring being more Daiyu-like.

So, there's a bunch of stuff that would be given new meaning under the premise of this theory being true. But now, what about the future? What would this theory mean for the themes and ending of Canto 8?

The Resolution

I believe this is how the Daiyu-Baoyu theory will affect Canto 8.

At some point, whether before or during the Canto, it will be revealed that Hong Lu is both Daiyu and Baoyu. There will be an attempt to seperate the two, perhaps to implant Baoyu into a more fitting, more Jia Family-approved Vessel. Perhaps because the 'arranged marriage' from DOTRC could be adapted into something more... let's say Fear and Hunger kind of marriage rather than traditional marriage.

This will leave Hong Lu to be returned to their state as Daiyu, who will be revealed to be a very different person to what the Sinners knew Hong Lu as. There is a non-zero chance that Daiyu will be unable to hear Dante or be revived by them due to the one who signed the contract being Baoyu, and so they could end up acting as an uncontrollable ally unit not unlike Xichun in Canto 7.

The climax would then be Daiyu and Baoyu reuniting and being unwilling to part with each other again, even for the sake of returning to being the fake persona that is Hong Lu, leading to a potential duo boss fight/distortion boss fight/duo distortion boss fight.

The ending would be the two of them deciding to embrace their new identity as Hong Lu and truly becoming one, discarding their pasts and the selves that had been forced on them by the Jia Family. This ending would have a twofold meaning regarding how it connects to the DOTRC adaptation.

One - it would be a direct parallel to the ending of DOTRC where Baoyu leaves to become a monk. By becoming Hong Lu and discaring his previous identities, he'd be leaving behind the earthly attachments inherent to being Baoyu and Daiyu and become spiritually whole.

Two - it would be a reflection of the major theme of DOTRC, that being "Truth becomes fiction when the fiction's true. Real becomes not-real when the unreal's real." Hong Lu, as a person, is a 'fake' persona used by the 'real' Baoyu and Daiyu. However, by discarding those two identities and deciding to just be Hong Lu, the fiction of his existence becomes the truth, while his former real selves become not real.

Conclusion?

I could honestly just keep going with this post, but I think I'm going to stop myself here before I'm forced to find out what tumblr's character limit on posts is. Believe me, I was trying to be brief, and still this post is. This fucking long.

I hope this explains why this theory has been the subject of my brainrot for the past however long, and why I feel like it's surprisingly plausible despite being as deranged as it is.

Godspeed and godbless, I have classes tomorrow and I'm spending my time on this.

worse, actually - it would be from Fyodor's perspective, thus would include opinions

(his general concept also extends to Ango, if you think about it - at some point he had to learn to control/use Discourse on Decadence, which could mean learning what people did on furniture)

remember how sigma said he wanted to know all of fyodor’s secrets? this means that when he wakes up he’s also going to know so many unserious secrets about fyodor.

he will wake up and the first memory he will have is that fyodor cut someone in line at mcdonald’s when he was 12.

he will wake up knowing that fyodor was scared of the dark until he was 16.

he will wake up knowing fyodor sprained his ankle after failing to do a cartwheel a year ago.

he will have to sort through countless useless secrets before getting to the important stuff and that’s so funny to me.

see also:

Hannibal also skipped all of Roman navy and most ground troops by crossing Alps, north of Rome. From northern Africa (then Carthage).

Salamis aka Bottleneck Good

Marathon: similar to Cannae, but wikipedia makes it seem like a combination of other causes

inflatable tanks!

Calais: "hi come in" middle ages edition. Please note a bribing attempt that enabled this.

honorable mention: SO. MANY. SHENANIGANS. in preparation for Normandy landing

@analytical-machine:

i have this feeling it's about feeding mayoi on schedule. and also dumbing down the plot so ppl won't think about it deeply

@postcardorigami:

i dunno yknow like i want to believe it isn’t malicious but also with how they’ve done everything so far i just can’t help but feel like it is just a little bit coming out of some sort of dislike if not for the series then certainly for the people that are making it—like shrek being a punishment for the prince of egypt folks or something

to the second point i mean like it already has an audience from the manga and from previous anime seasons, so they’re not really taking that big of a risk with making it—what’s riskier is putting it out in a way that is so blatantly different from the source material and with the actual quality of what they ARE doing being so reduced even from previous seasons, and the only justification i can think of for that is if they don’t care or even actively dislike the series

The thing is glorious manga master race would watch the anime, no matter what. We see this in action right now. Therefore, the goal is to lure in the unaware - for which quality isn't actually needed as long as costs are recouped, but also - if someone watches the anime they have no reason to read the manga, b/c there is legit so much to consume. So if they imbibe a 'good enough' anime, it will not rewire their brains (consider: for BSD, classlit counts as extra materials. Can't profit off that - ex. NLH entered public domain relatively recently).

Moreover, i've been watching Monster on and off on the side and the anime is slow, visuals obviously old but aged well, just… has slow, low-to-no animation moments that give it a feel of being adapted literally panel-by-panel. Meanwhile, i jumped ship to manga after s1 and the biggest reason was… I was consistently distracted by the 'aha, this animation repeats to pad out the episode', 'this animation brings absolutely nothing to the plot, why is it there?'. Comparing it to respective manga parts makes it even worse, because in retrospect manga at the same time rushes and pads out. Like, you could just have some manga panels that are fundamentally stills with some voiceover and it would work. When you track what gets cut & what gets added - they remove the quiet moments (the sort that let the viewer ponder on the events before you're given next plot beat), and add meaningless animation loops that are the equivalent of jangling keys. If the logic behind them is to add levity to a serious plot - why?

Humor in a serious plot also has it's own pacing (read: to tactically control tension, not just to add whenever convenient), and it's existence in the 'core' plot completely changes the tone, especially when combined with wan! which, acts as a palate-cleanser - but one outside of the flow of the main chain of events, thus not changing the read of them.

so, they didn't have to do ＡＮＹ of this. But they did. Who benefits? hence, option 1: churn for BSD mayoi. All yu-gi-oh animes move(d?) in tandem with card releases with episode quality swinging hard, so we absolutely have a precedent. option 2: noticable dislike for the source === malicious actions. We have a precedent - Firefly TV show. consider who exactly has the decisionmaking power here, what demographic: the kind that would not see spicy takes on mental health (did the anime get to the point where who should be framed as a deuteragonist just straight-up hallucinates? and the 'camera's eye' doesn't give a shit?). And what about unsubtle anti-war messaging? Yosano on the main cast, Fukuchi being a Metal Gear Solid refugee? But at the same time, aren't Hunting Dogs baaaasically military? quick check on wiki says is a rabbit hole, but the intended point stands: you just can't win with these characters. Plus moral ambiguity and noticable grayness implictly make it a harder sell for 'all audiences' (read: squeaky clean)

So, you force everything to be scheduled too fast, too quickly, too soon - using the excuse of (1) to cover for (2). (#1, and the terribad norms of the industry)

aaaand that's how you get away with murder *jazz hands*

the thing about this current season and the egregious errors, issues, etc. within it is that realistically none of this had to happen—i think it’s pretty obvious that not only on top of studio bones’ already apparent and seemingly deep-rooted disdain for the source material and specific crucial characters with immense impact on not only the plot but also on the development of the actual protagonist, the season is also incredibly rushed, and it didn’t need to be

season four came out only a few months ago. it would have been reasonable—and honestly it would have been expected—that bones wait at least another year to work on season 5 and develop the chapters covered here a little more, so that not only could they present a cleaner, better-paced, and more emotionally impactful product, but that they also would give the manga more time to finish this current arc so that if they did choose not to adapt anything afterwards, they could at least close out this part of the story on a halfway acceptable note

it’s not just disrespectful to the fans and asagiri/harukawa (my god, what they’ve done to harukawa’s beautiful art style should be considered a crime), but it’s frankly a poor reflection upon themselves, too, that they’ve pushed this season so quickly after the most recent one, seemingly without care for what it’s reception may be by the people who want to see the story done justice

yiss thank you for a starter point to iterate further. MFE does have it's own mid-fight event!

if passed, it eats stagger. TvTropes also has a page on 108

other ideas/notes:

observation logs: floating -> not grounded in reality.

is [DATA EXPUNGED] related to [DATA EXPUNGED] -> WhiteNight, naturally. deity theme + collects underlings + fights mostly through them + healing as minion revival + dmg AND buffs. In fact, as you noted MFE's broad strokes is 'false idol' - wouldn't that make every WN aberration a false idol of some sort? hmhm.

if memory serves stone seat [foot icon] points you to the statue, but buddha murti [ribcage] points to it's khakkara. idk but i like the mindfuck

weak to lust + lust on skills -> prompts to indulge in one's (violent) desires, like it does (the buffing deals dmg to underling!), then gets suprised-pikachu someone flips it against it

wrath skills are the ones that apply "take more dmg and die" status, on both sides: pissy at others ("Its chants are imbued with a curse.") that do not worship it - and that they do not drop dead? and at underlings that are weak (that fail to deal dmg/kill the targets of it's ire) …wouldn't that line up it's emptying/mutterings into whining There Are Problems but not actually doing anything about it? Bitching sessions turning into a goal in-of-itself (empty: "without purpose or interest") and/or to maintain brainwashed followers (empty: "not sincere or without any real meaning") ?

now that you mention color split: karmic cycle as cycle of violence?

stone murti (devotional image of a deity) is stone, until you hack at it enough and it reveals itself as fleshy (=human)

ngl the longer i think about it the more i get the mental image of some rightwing pundit manifesting it. Maybe because i fought it enough for the mind wander, specifically to a bit from an article:

And while he always professes to be laughing his fucking ass off at Biden, or congressional Democrats, or climate change believers, or the vaccinated, or Black Lives Matter protesters, it never feels as genuine as when he talks about the beloved dogs and cats he’s rescued and nurtured back to health. Maintaining his level of clout as a political heckler, B. acknowledges, is a tiresome job for a lone man pushing 60. When you weigh up what he gets in the bargain, it doesn’t seem like much.

even tho 'shouldering another's suffering' is right there, in the text. …as in "i agree and understand your self-indulgent takes"?

regarding "forever still": The stillness to look like one calm place within the storm, or am i going all GameTheorists (/pej) here?

…Which is why Outis EGO is so ???, so thanks for clarifying. "[karma] shall rest atop your head" + bowing down to MFE -> weight of one's indulgence in earthly pleasures prompting worship of an idol? "fall silent as if there was no suffering" + false compassion -> gets hostile if someone complains (demands their concerns be heard, as opposed of being lulled by the illusion of compassion)/only it is allowed to bitch and moan about what it considers problems? ….which does fit how Outis treats other sinners, ngl. And you can force it into some vaguely military shape of 'will do first aid, will not care for your trauma'.

I'd say it's not the emptiness that harms (whatever that is), but reveal the deity is a mere human.

Alternate reading to prop up the conclusion:

cost: to indulge in violence, but do so passively/via others, for military objectives. Managing troop morale?

resists: lust is x0.5 instead of x2! fixated on it's own wants, making yours insignificant to it? Gloom x2, Sloth x2 -> calling out on it's own misery, and inaction which reinforces it?

…good thing the fight is so damn long so we have time to attempt to grasp the meaning, eh?

don't know if you have yet, but could you talk about Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam?

Now, before I get into it, I'd like to make myself clear: my knowledge on Buddhism is extremely limited, so it's very likely that I'll miss some context around this E.G.O and Abnormality. I will try to research certain terms and ideas if they come up, but I am by no means an authority on these matters. Anyone more knowledgable on this subject is more than welcome to add onto this post in case I miss something.

With all that out of the way, let's dive under the cut for this shit.

Let's start with the Abnormality itself, My Form Empties. Now, it is immediately obvious that this Abno is heavily based in Buddhism, with the Abno itself taking on the form of a statue of Buddha that reveals a flesh-like interior when broken. Keep the idea of the stone exterior hiding the fleshy interior in mind.

In battle, My Form Empties makes use of two different Sin Affinities. Whenever it inflicts buffs and debuffs, it uses Lust Skills. On the other hand, whenever it inflicts Karma, it uses Wrath Skills.

The Skills that MFE uses to inflict Karma on both its enemies and allies are called Sluggard Waker and Compulsory Offering, both of which paint a very introduction to what this Abno wants. It giving Karma to others is seen as it Waking People Up and Forcing Them To Give It Offerings.

The latter is what caught my attention. From my brief research, Buddhism does have the concept of Offerings, however from my basic understanding they are much more bening than what MFE seems to want. In Buddhism, Offerings are usually made out of simple objects such as candles, incense, flowers, food, drinks, and such; as well as the acts of giving, following morals, meditating, and practicing wisdom. These Offerings are meant to grant the person who gives them merit, which leads to better rebirth and progress towards the release from suffering. ...I think. I'm no expert, so if I'm wrong, please do correct me!

Anyway, the reason why I'm going so deep into this is because of the nature of Offerings that MFE seems to look for.

Let's briefly look at how the Karma status effect works during its fight: MFE uses skills to inflict Karma (implied to be Bad Karma specifically) on its enemies, but if the enemy wins the clash, it inflicts Karma on its allies instead. When a unit with Karma successfuly hits another unit, its Karma gets transferred onto that unit. If the stone exterior of MFE is broken, it inflicts more Karma on its own allies, and begins targetting them with its own skills. Karma causes whoever has it to take more damage, and when its count reaches 108, the unit will instantly die.

With all of that laid out like that, here's how I understand what's going on. The Offerings done for MFE have the same "purpose" as in actual Buddhism - that being gaining merit and good karma, mechanically represented by getting rid of the (bad) Karma status effect. However, it's the nature of these Offerings that is the red flag - MFE rewards violence with good karma, and punishes weakness and insubordination with bad karma.

My theory on what this means is this: MFE is not a representation of the actual Buddha... obviously. Rather, it's a fake, twisted idol that uses the image of Buddha and concepts associated with it to gather followers and make them do its bidding. Remember the whole thing with its stone, statue-like exterior hiding a fleshy interior? I believe that statue-like look is a mere facade, while the real MFE is the flesh hidden within.

Keep in mind this idea of a fake idol hiding underneath a stone-like mask for when we later discuss the themes.

Now, I want to take a look at the Skill MFE uses to kill whoever has the most (bad) Karma at that moment - Prajñāpāramitā.

From my, again, brief research, the word means "the Perfection of Wisdom" or "Transcendental Knowledge" when translated literally. It's this concept of a perfect way of seeing the nature of reality, a type of knowledge that looks past form, sensations, perceptions, and so on. Themes of emptiness and lack of self appear to be quite important to the concept.

So... what exactly does it mean for MFE to be using this form of transcendental knowledge to effectively punish those who collect too much Bad Karma? Well, there is a possible hint to what happens in the unused texts for its MD interaction. This unused text reads:

"You close your eyes and focus on the sound. What is it saying? This thing is uttering thoughts. Empty oneself by verbalizing one’s thoughts. Expel everything within so that nothing remains. That is the statue’s way of forgetting the self. You sense yourself disappearing as well."

I think this makes it quite clear. When someone in MFE's vicinity accumulates too much Bad Karma, it effectively tells them how to reach that transcendental knowledge. How to forget one's self. How to destroy everything inside until nothing but emptiness remains. And just like that, whoever was told that does as told, and disappears without a trace.

It's a twisted take on this idea, turning the concept of reaching spiritual awakening through kindness and good deeds, into one of dangerous forbidden knowledge forced onto whoever this false idol deems its opposition.

Now, let's take a brief look at the names of the Lust Skills and Passives, and what they may mean.

Expound Sutras (grants Attack Power to allies) - the act of presenting or explaining sutras, aka scriptures. Could be interpreted as MFE presents its rules and scriptures as a way to bolster its followers' resolve.

Mahāsrī (gives Protection to target) - seems to be a reference to Lakshmi, a Hindu goddess of prosperity among other things.

Svāhā (gives Damage Up to target) - seems to be a reference to Svaha, the Hindu goddess of sacrifices.

The above two skills are interesting, as they reference Hinduism rather than Buddhism. My interpretation of that is that MFE, as a false idol, is "borrowing" the visages of other deities to give blessings, once again enforcing this idea of using facades of true god-like beings to exert power over others.

Dhyāna (inflicts Power Down and halves debuffs on self, also the name of the passive giving it 10 Protection) - a method of meditation that is meant to destroy states of mind that prevent the reaching of true awareness and detachment. Could be interpreted as MFE using this form of meditation to expel debuffs from itself, and instead inflicting them on its enemies, as well as it using it to protect itself from harm to its concentration.

Anatman (passive that activates when the interior is exposed) - a doctrine that claims nothing is truly unchanging or permanent. MFE entering this state of Anatman when its facade is broken could mean that the "true" nature of this false idol is one that is a lack of permanent self or essence, thus having to use the image of another figure to exert power. Keep that idea of one's nature being a lack of self in mind.

Nirmāna (passive that activates when the exterior recovers) - from my understanding, this refers to Nirmāṇakāya, the physical manifestation of Buddha. This seems to symbolize MFE returning to its facade, hiding its real identity under the visage of Buddha.

Okay, that was a lot. Let's take a look at the information we have on MFE from its Abno Logs and MD event.

From the Logs, we get a further confirmation that MFE's followers are obligated to protect it, and that when they fail, MFE starts punishing them. MFE is also outright called an idol of worship, and we learn that the "Karma" it uses manifests physically as a ring attached to those who accumulate it.

From the MD Event, we get to learn a few more things.

One - MFE uses mantras to verbalize its own thoughts to empty itself, further driving home that its true nature is one of emptiness, of lack of self or essence. We also learn that this chanting is not "joyous" and it's imbued with a "curse", once again twisting a concept tied to spiritual awakening in Buddhism into something much more negative.

Two - MFE is capable of judging people on whether they are "worthy" or not, as it denies giving up its ring if you fail the skill check. This further points to its judgemental and punishing demeanor towards its followers.

Three - The statue itself is described as "forever still", unmoving regardless of what happens around it. An unchanging self as a facade to an interior described as impermanent and empty.

Now, that was. A lot. If you made it this far, you are very brave and I'm proud of you. Let's actually lay out the themes My Form Empties touches upon.

The first theme I believe is important here is the idea of a false idol. This concept of something ungodly, fake, taking on the visage of a deity, of someone in power, to control others to do its bidding. In a broader sense, it's the concept of faking the position of authority for the sake of furthering one's goals.

The second theme I want to point out is the impermanence of essence, the lack of self. This idea of expelling everything within oneself, of forgetting one's self, so that one's true nature is simply emptiness. The concept of no true identity behind the mask, only nothingness.

Finally, the third theme I want to note is the idea of retribution. Of punishing acts that go against oneself. What goes around, comes around. That somewhat simplified concept of karma that is more common in western pop culture.

Alright, got all that?

Good. We can actually move on to the E.G.O itself now. (I'm sorry if you're at this point, I genuinely didn't want this analysis to be longer than Hex Nail's, but fuck man My Form Empties turned out to be a fascinating Abno to dig into.)

From my brief research, the phrase "Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam" translates to "whatever emptiness there is, that is form", which seems to be a quote from the Heart Sutra (what MFE is inspired by).

During her Awakening attack, Outis says the following line: "Karma shall find its way back to you, and rest atop your head.", which is Incredibly Interesting. First of all, we have the theme of retribution in the form of Karma. This idea that the retribution of one's actions will inevitably come for whoever commited a wrongdoing. However, that's not all.

The phrasing of "rest atop your head", combined with the replacing of the khakkhara MFE uses with a more standard-looking blade brings to mind the story of the Sword of Damocles. A sword that hangs above the head of someone in power, reminding them that despite their great fortune, the cruelty they had to commit has put them in constant danger.

This is then combined with Outis performing an attack animation that heavily resembles that of MFE's Prajñāpāramitā attack, which we discussed earlier.

Now, there are two ways I believe this can be interpreted in.

One is Outis being the one seeking retribution. The other is Outis being the one on the recieving end of that retribution. From what we know of Outis's source, I believe we're dealing with the latter.

Outis has done something horrible in her past, which is extremely likely from the little bits we know of her thus far. This has caused a target to be put on her back, as it's not unreasonable to think either a specific person or whole factions are hoping she pays for what she's done, that retribution comes and punishes her for what she's done.

And she knows it. This way of being able to see her true reality, of knowing that she'll get what's coming to her sooner or later, this "forbidden knowledge", is a source of anxiety for her. Her Sword of Damocles, if you will.

Moving on, during her Corrosion attack, her dialogue line is "Fall silent… As if there were no suffering in the first place…", which is so fucking loaded that I don't know where to even begin.

This idea of ignoring suffering, of staying quiet despite obvious harm taking place. Is Outis here talking about the suffering of others? How she stayed silent as her actions caused immesurable harm to other people? Or is Outis here talking about her own suffering? How she has to stay silent and ignore her own pain to put on a brave, stone-faced mask?

The animation of the attack here is also interesting. While it still mimics MFE's Prajñāpāramitā attack, it's not actually directed against opponent. Outis directs the attack onto herself, causing her facade to fall away one by one. Clothes fall away, stone cracks, and what's revealed is the fleshy interior not unlike MFE's. This reveal of the emptiness within is what harms the opponent, rather than the blade itself.

Is this symbolic of Outis revealing that under her mask, under this facade of a military commander, there's no true identity beneath? That she truly is the Nobody she calls herself?

Let's get into the Sin Analysis part. If you are still here, I appreciate you, and I'm so sorry this is probably genuinely like twice as long as Hex Nail.

Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam's Sin Affinity is Lust. It's a somewhat weird choice, but I think this ties back to MFE's first theme. By using this E.G.O, Outis takes on the emotional state of a false idol, of a fake authority, someone who puts on a facade to achieve something. The usage of Lust here could signify that that's the main motive for putting on this facade, for Outis to fulfill whatever goals she may have.

While it's possible that Lust Affinity here could imply some form of indulgence, I personally don't think that's really the case here. I believe that here Lust Affinity is meant to specifically represent the motive of fulfilling one's personal goals through the act that the E.G.O represents, that being becoming a false figure of authority.

Sin Resources-wise, Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam requires equal amounts Lust, Sloth, and Pride.

Lust, like I mentioned when discussing the Affinity, likely represents Outis entering this state of mind to fulfill her own personal goal. I think the important part of Lust's usage here is the emphasis on these goals being personal. Whatever led her to take on this facade was likely something she deeply cared about.

Sloth here could represent a few things. One is the inaction in the face of suffering, this act of "falling silent" that Outis references in her Corrosion line. Another interpretation could be Outis's resignation to the inevitable retribution coming her way. She knows that Karma, this Sword of Damocles, is resting over her head, and yet she does nothing to change it. Perhaps she knows that there's nothing she can do, and has thus resigned herself to waiting for the moment that Sword finally drops.

Pride is, perhaps, the most obvious one of these three. To fall into this state of mind, to take on the false authority deception, Outis has to ignore the negative consequences for the sake of focusing on the benefits. She's doing this to fulfill her goals, regardless of the suffering it may bring to others, or the target it may put on her back afterwards.

And, to end it off, let's take a brief look at her Sin Resistances are. And, in all honesty, they seem quite fitting. In this emotional state of going back to decieving others, of putting on the facade of bravado and fake authority for the sake of her own goals, Outis is the most hurt by Sloth and Gloom. The reminder that she has resigned herself to the Karma coming for her, and the idea of dwelling on the fear and stress that inevitability causes her.

...God now that I'm back these really just keep getting longer huh. Sorry about that. If you got this far, congratulations. You get my gratitude and the knowledge that I spent like three hours on this whole post, researching Buddhism included. There's no obligation for you to share, but I would love to know how long this took for you to read.

I wish I could promise my next analyses won't be as long, but let's be honest there's no fucking way I can be sure of that.

hypothetically how big of an overlap does the limbus fandom have with the bsd fandom ……. And how would this hypothetical overlap feel about fyolai and ryofaust …………… asking for a friend ………..

Once in awhile, you can get one over on The Man. Finally, after all these years of toiling under his rule, doing his dirty work, begging for his praise, he has well and truly fucked up. And, it turns out, your entire life has been building up to the moment that you can milk him for all he's worth.

Have you ever seen a Dodge Caliber? They're getting sort of uncommon now, but when they were new, they were pretty hateful cars. Cheap, buzzy, surprisingly uneconomical, steering that felt like telling a funeral home operator how to sign a birthday card over the phone by long distance. And they fell apart all the time. Most cars get repaired, but these things got gleefully shovelled into the junkyard at the first chance the owners got.

Not all of them, though. This is a story about one very special Dodge Caliber. You see, my aunt needed a car. And my aunt is very nervous about owning a car. The skills of shitbox repair never made it into her genes, you see, possibly because she is not related to me by blood. So, in order to get that car, she went to the Dodge dealership, and she asked them: can you do a lifetime warranty, unlimited mileage, no questions asked, cover everything? And they said: for you, ma'am, we absolutely can charge you an obscene, eye-watering amount of money.

Once I found out about this, I was mad. And then I figured it out. You see, what my aunt did have was being insanely cheap. That's why she was a part of my degenerate family. She still is, even though my Uncle Larry exploded that one night at Arecibo. Unlimited mileage. There has never been a sweeter phrase uttered in the English language.

Now, whenever anyone we know needs to go for a long trip, we tell them: take the Caliber. Rack those miles up. Punish those stupid motherfuckers for writing such a terrible, open-ended contract. My aunt runs a taxi service consisting entirely of this vehicle, a fleet of drivers constantly rotating in and out, the thing rolling virtually 24/7. I love driving this car, because every single mile that ticks up on the odometer is more salty tears from the low-wattage pig who thought he was a big-time wheeler and dealer down at Old Time Country Dodge.

To their credit, they figured out the enormous error that they had made fairly quickly. When Aunt Hilda rolled in the thing, smoking and wheezing, for its sixth transmission replacement at eight-hundred-and-fifty-thousand kilometers, they offered to buy it from her and give her a brand new luxury SUV, just for being such a great customer. She laughed, and told them to get started overhauling the Caliber, and don't forget to take a look at the squeaking sound it started making in the back.

When things got real bad during the recession, they tried to go bankrupt, thinking that might get them out from having to maintain this economy car until the sun burns out. Ha! Death won't save you, my friend. My attorney Max picked that one up pro bono, despite hating warranty law, just for the pleasure of watching their attorney read the purchase contract. Her eyes got so big that they stuck that way. The paramedics had to use the jaws of life on her eyelids so she could blink again.

If you see me in the Caliber, make sure to honk. I probably won't stop to say hi, because we gotta keep this odometer rollin'. Rest assured, however, that I will honk back, maybe ten or fifteen times. Really get my money's worth out of that horn.